Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

A couple things are happening, and possibly worth an update.

There is a "Virtual South" between the north magnets, so the coil output is still AC, but it is a 5 phase output.

conversion.jpg

[Turion]

A couple things are happening, and possibly worth an update. Greyland has been up and around for a bit now, and has been working on the generator as he has time. He has it down to less than 3 foot pounds of torque to (break magnetic lock and) turn the rotor with all 12 coils in place, so hopefully that will affect the amp draw of the motor used to turn the rotor. He had to get a special torque wrench because the one he had only goes down to five pounds, and he is aiming for one pound of torque. He has also found problems with the coils and is working to address that. Some of the coil issues stem from the fact that he as some 3 wire coils, some 6 wire coils, some 12 wire coils and some 24 wire coils on the machine, as I was experimenting to see which gave the best output and at what speeds. Since different winds produce speed up under load at different RPM's, it has hurt his brain to try and figure out at what RPM to run the machine, since coils only put out MAX power when they are neither speeding up the machine nor slowing it down. This machine was NEVER intended to be a "working generator". It was designed as a test bed for me to experiment with coil configurations, coil core materials, and different RPMs to see what is possible. So even when it is up and running PERFECTLY, it does not output "Perfectly". That is why all my statements on the performance of the machine go back to the time when I had 12 coils that all had 3 strands in them. That is the ONLY time the machine was working at peak performance. I know what the machine was doing with those coils and THAT rotor with 6 of the 2" by 1/4" thickness magnets. Since then I have doubled the number of magnets in the rotor and increased their thickness and changed the design of the coils three more times. I know how those changes affected the output of the different coil pairs on the machine, and I am capable of multiplying that number by the number of coil pair to see what the output of the machine would be if all the coil Paris were the same. Eventually all the coils will have to be replaced with the same winding configuration, and the machine run at the RPM for THOSE particular coils, but we will worry about that another day. And I STILL have a pair of ferrite core coils that need to be put in the machine and tested for both output and speed up under load RPM. Still lots to do. Luckily, Greyland isn't having to do any machining at the present time, just adjusting and tightening things up. He still isn't really up to that.

I also ran across someone ELSE who is a machinist in the Eastern part of the US, and is interested in replicating one version of the generator. So we are working together. It will probably take some time, but he has all the resources to do it, so I'm pretty sure we will both end up with one by the time the smoke clears. This will be a smaller machine with only 10 coils, but it will also be the version I think most people should build as proof of concept because it is smaller, much cheaper, much easier to tune, and still capable of producing quite a bit of power. Because it has an odd number of coils on each side of the rotor, all rotor magnets are North facing, you cannot run large AC devices off of it because the coils are not in phase with each other. There is a "Virtual South" between the north magnets, so the coil output is still AC, but it is a 5 phase output. The coil outputs are all rectified to DC to run a load or charge batteries.

I can't even work on my remodel for two weeks, as I have contractors in doing some stuff and I would be in the way. Getting very, very close to being done, so I am actually spending the time getting my shop at the new house in some kind of order so I have places to actually work on projects. If and when I start working on getting the generator back together, I will keep you posted on the update. I still do not have a rotor that doesn't have magnets sticking out a bit, and I am unwilling to run such a rotor anymore.

I have other projects I am working on, some of which are replications of the work of others. None of them should be discussed in a thread about motors and generators though.

[BroMikey]

This youtube channel deals with how he changed his commercial generator. It took years and the data is at his youtube. 2nd video is his generator producing at 4rpm. He beat Lenz with internal magnets. See his videos for changes.

[BroMikey]

Garolite Micarta Canvas Phenolic is a space age material also only $20 a sq ft for strong as steel electrical grade COMPOSITE. The way to go. To give you an example of how pure plastic products act just left out in the sun a few days I have a cutting block board that was exposed to heat a few weeks. The board is trying to form itself into a sphere. Not to mention the god awful prices.

See the various grades. All very cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Garolite-Mi...kAAOSwRNhbv9hL


https://www.alro.com/divplastics/Pla...licFamily.aspx

Reinforcing substrate and a thermoplastic resin binder, then cured with high temperature and pressure. The reinforcing substrate can be glass cloth, glass mat, filaments, canvas cotton fabric, linen cotton fabric, paper, graphite fabric, and others. While the thermoplastic binder resin which serves to adhere the layers together can be epoxies, melamine, phenolics, polyesters, silicones, and others.

Micarta (Phenolic) is a trademark of Norplex-Micarta industrial high-pressure laminates. Common uses of modern high-pressure laminates are electrical insulators, printed circuit board substrates, and knife handles.

[BroMikey]

Here is another space age electrical grade reinforced composite, cheap, the guy cuts it for you

The search term is for plastic Canvas Phenolic (CE) it is not plastic it is a composite and because I typed in the word composite for 2 years nothing came up. Boing boing. Type in the wrong terms and you go hungry.

Here is my rotor material video


https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Canvas-...E8AAOSwyZ5UrCN S

[BroMikey]

Dave says he can power a small city with a tiny battery, someday, down the road, pretty soon. It's almost ready but he needs a number of years to be sure is his response so he doesn't give out false hopes. Another 10? Well it was suppose to be last year, no one remembers.

As far as I know Dave told me he is working on it, Dave wants to keep this quiet for now since he said he would already have it.Tell'em Dave it will be soon.

I know and remember that the way it works is to create a potential difference. Hum where have we ever heard this? You have to do a balancing act type, ring around the rosy keeping a load fed all the while. If you do this long enough and play with it round the clock you'll begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel Feel better? This is all we have to go on so far. If other details surface I will let everyone know. Recall your 3 battery (3BGS) generating systems. Replace the motor AND the generator with inverter charge pump circuits and proceed to do a recirculating loop of differential/ potential juggling while a load is draining off energy. If you get it just right, lo and BEHOLD the load gets power and the system voltages does not decline. If the load is not big enough the system voltage/power will increase and become out of balance, more load must be pulled to maintain the equilibrium. If the load is to big the system balance will not be maintained and the process fails.

These are the only facts we have been given year to date in the last 10. No working proto has emerged as was promised but I have high hopes that in a few years one could. Stay tuned and keep your hard hat close.

[BroMikey]

If you are in the boating industry and need this for Groco valve backing plates we also have those available drilled and tapped ............
This stuff is fireproof and incredibly strong. It would not even burn with a Map gas torch blasting it from an inch away and as soon as torch removed flame went out.

[BroMikey]

To all; sorry to get off topic.
Turion,
The 3BGS battery switching you and Matthew was working on, did it prove fruitless?

I never did follow up with any part of that process with the 3bgs. I did notice the topic was closed after 300+ pages.
If you don't answer that's ok. Your silence will be my answer.

wantomake

Dave says he can power a small city with a tiny battery, someday, down the road, pretty soon. It's almost ready but he needs a number of years to be sure is his response so he doesn't give out false hopes. Another 10? Well it was suppose to be last year, no one remembers.

As far as I know Dave told me he is working on it, Dave wants to keep this quiet for now since he said he would already have it.Tell'em Dave it will be soon.

[Turion]

Wantomake,

Sending you a PM.

[wantomake]

To all; sorry to get off topic.
Turion,
The 3BGS battery switching you and Matthew was working on, did it prove fruitless?

I never did follow up with any part of that process with the 3bgs. I did notice the topic was closed after 300+ pages.
If you don't answer that's ok. Your silence will be my answer.

wantomake

[BroMikey]

It is very clearly a higher amp draw, going from 7-8 amps 36v without coils then all the way up to 17amps at 36v with 6 coils. Proof is in the pudding.

[BroMikey]

Wow that is a crazy cool setup, You are confusing the money it cost you for mechanical experience. Much cheaper and more durable. You are a great guy who is a freakin genius, that is what we needed you for.

[Turion]

One of the reasons I am no longer concerned with the progress on this thread is that I was contacted by someone with TONS of experience with motors and generators. He is actually in the management of a company that specializes in motors and generators, so he might know a thing or two. He is the individual who came to Greyland's shop and SAW the generator running. He was impressed enough that he will be incorporating the magnetic neutralization into the prototype he is building. His budget is a little more than mine, O Machine.jpg

[BroMikey]

Thank you David, I am happy to see your project operating, that says more than you know. It makes it obvious that it will do what you say based on all of the highly machined fixtures. Nobody would make such a claim without putting their money where their mouth is. I decided to use a 1-1/4" shaft so the heavy rotor does not bend it. All thread is Micky mouse (trash, Trash) just kidding we love you for your efforts.

[Turion]

Greyland is kind of down and out right now, recovering from the stroke he had. Still in therapy. My big generator is at his place several hours away. So showing it is not in the cards as we are staying home during this pandemic. My x has tested positive so it has hit close to home.

I have machines here, but getting one back together has proved difficult. I don’t have a “safe” rotor with no magnets sticking out, so until I solve that problem I am not even trying to get one running. With no machinist to make sure that holes drilled align things perfectly, it is proving to be very challenging. When things hit things at high speed it is not pretty. I survived ONE of those incidents and have no desire to risk another just to prove a point when I already have working prototypes of things with NO moving parts that can be scaled up. Risking an eye to show an obsolete generation device is just not worth it to me.

https://youtu.be/0iHy2w0rK6M

Here is a video showing that it cost 7.7 amps to run the machine at FAR more than the 2800 RPM on 36 volts. That’s 277 watts. In the video above, I show the output of a coil at 2/3 that speed as over 50 watts. I also show when you UNLOAD a coil EXACTLY like that coil, the machine slows down. If you put 12 of them on the machine, would you not get 12 times the output? Would 12x 50 NOT equal 600? Would that NOT be more out than in, even with those old coils? Lenz is outrun as the video in the post above CLEARLY shows.

So what would prevent you from doing EXACTLY that? I’ll tell you. Magnetic drag. You know, that thing bistander says makes “no difference”. Every coil you add increases the mass of core material you must move your rotor past. I tried bigger motors. Burnt them up. I tried kick starting the machine by firing all the coils at once as motor coils. That had lots of potential, and I was moving in that direction until I saw the patent on magnetic neutralization.

The ability to outrun Lenz and the ability to neutralize what I call “magnetic drag” are the two keys to a machine that does what you want it to.

https://youtu.be/NUvZjPa08fw


In this video I show that adding six coils to the machine increased the amp draw from 7 amps to over 16. That’s more than DOUBLE. But according to bistander, it “makes no difference”. Imagine what happens when you add six MORE coils. According to bi, that won’t make any difference either. Here’s what really happens despite what bistander says. The amp draw rises above the rated amp draw for the motor, and it burns it up. With magnetic neutralization in place the amp draw stays down around 12-13 amps. I can also tell you that as you add more coils, the new one increases the motor amp draw MORE than the previous one did and when you are above about four coils that difference starts to get interesting.

Now there is another effect magnetic drag has besides increasing the amp draw. You can see in the two videos that the RPM of the rotor went down considerably when more coils were added. What do you think THAT does to generator coil output? Do you believe as bistander does that THAT makes no difference too? Do you REALLY?

How do I KNOW all this stuff? Because I actually BUILD things. I do not sit on my butt like bistander, assuming my textbook learning is the golden rule. He doesn’t know SQUAT about these machines because he doesn’t build anything. He opens his mouth and criticizes the work of others that he knows NOTHING about. But go ahead and listen to him instead of learning for yourselves. You get what you deserve. Yes, I have made a great number of mistakes. Some of them have made me appear not to know much, but SOME of them have led to amazing discoveries. I’m happy with exactly where I am and what I know.


Now I have presented FACTS. It’s true I haven’t shown input and output of the machine. It may well be a while before that happens and it may NEVER happen. But all the FACTS and data you need are in what I have shown. I have done everything I can to make this easy for the next guy. What you do with it is up to you. I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for what you do. I have done what I am capable of doing to move this project forward. Despite what you may think, I have an actual life with other responsibilities.

I am moving on from this forum. Many of you have my email. dvd.bowling@gmail.com. I will be happy to answer questions but I am done arguing with idiots.