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  • Turion
    replied
    Thanks guys. I was pretty depressed about that whole magnet thing, and I couldn't even force myself to go down there and work on it because I wasn't sure it would work out and I was afraid this was just another setback that would cost me weeks. And possibly ruin the rotor. AND people would give me crap because I still haven't provided input and output data. All it cost me was a couple days before I could get to town and buy a punch and a masonry bit. But even after I had them, I procrastinated. When I finally just sucked it up and got after it, it really only took me a couple hours to remove and replace. Going down there and working on ANYTHING is tough after working all day on the remodel. It's especially tough when it is something I am dreading working on. The "green chair" where I can kick back and put my feet up is next to the fire is a lot more enticing than going down to that cold shop when I'm beat. I'm an old man now. Passed official retirement age, even though I have been retired for like 12 years. But I am used to working. When I was younger I taught high school during the day, worked as a meat man at the supermarket in the evenings, and worked construction on the weekends. It enabled me to retire 12 years ago to a life of what I mistakenly thought would be leisure. Little did I know I would be remodeling houses and landscaping property. And spending every second of free time working on energy projects. I would like to kick younger me right in the butt and clue him in on a few things!

    Will post video in the next day or so of the next steps in putting this thing together. Didn't get to work on it tonight. Too much other stuff came up, like figuring out how to remodel this kitchen counter I am working on building tomorrow from an existing piece of junk that was there. Off to Lowes first thing in the morning. Again. and Again.

    But about DATA......I posted data PROVING that magnetic neutralization affects the RPM and the amp draw of the motor. This in turn affects the OUTPUT of the generator, which means the overall performance of the generator is SIGNIFICANTLY impacted by magnetic neutralization. It decreases watts in. Meaning HIGHER efficiency of the two pieces (motor and generator) working together, and It increases watts out from the generator.

    This is part of what I posted
    "On another note, I did a video where I showed my big generator running with 0 coils in it and the motor running on 7 amps at 36 volts, and I don't remember the RPM, but I remember it was over 3,000. That was the baseline. Then I put four coils in the machine and it drew over 12 amps and the RPM was reduced by 500 RPM. "

    ADDING COILS INCREASED THE AMP DRAW OF THE MOTOR. THE MORE COILS ADDED, THE GREATER THE AMP DRAW OF THE MOTOR. ALSO THE MORE COILS ADDED THE MORE THE RPM OF THE MOTOR WAS REDUCED. EACH COIL ADDED HAD A GREATER EFFECT THAN THE PREVIOUS COIL, SO THE MORE YOU ADD THE WORSE EACH INDIVIDUAL ADDITION AFFECTS THE PERFORMANCE OF THE MOTOR. IN THE WORLD I LIVE IN THE REDUCED PERFORMANCE OF THE MOTOR AFFECTS THE OUTPUT OF THE GENERATOR.

    bistander choose to ignore the data and a few posts later said this:

    "But like I've said numerous times, it, along with your other scheme, doesn't affect output at load" (referring to magnetic neutralization and "neutral" coils)

    AND A COUPLE POSTS LATER

    "Neither improve generator performance at speed and at load" (referring to magnetic neutralization and "neutral" coils)

    Now, I don't know about YOU guys, but in MY mind, if I can keep the amp draw of the motor from going up, that is a positive thing, and worth investigating. In my world, when the RPM of the motor DROPS, so does the rpm of the generator it is turning, which, if I am not mistaken, affects the output of the generator. So to say that magnetic neutralization is of no benefit is just STUPID. Oh, but he didn't SAY that did he? He inferred it, which is a TOTALLY different thing.

    The king of semantics is very careful with his word choice. bI says "Neither improve generator performance at speed and at load". He is assuming you REACH "speed" despite the fact that speed will be reduced because of the effect additional coils have on the performance of the motor and therefore the generator.

    That's like saying "If I can run sixty miles an hour with a car on my back, the car is not an issue." You would be absolutely right! An idiot, but SEMANTICALLY correct.

    I think from now on I will just refer to BiStander as BS. let's keep it simple
    Last edited by Turion; 12-03-2020, 03:37 PM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by ron48 View Post
    Well done Dave been following in the background for years and I believe everything you said. Hope everything goes better than you expect. Best wishes to you and yours ron
    hello Ron

    I have been meaning to ask if you still build those steel rotors? And do you still do testing on yours?

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  • ron48
    replied
    Well done Dave been following in the background for years and I believe everything you said. Hope everything goes better than you expect. Best wishes to you and yours ron

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Ok boys and girls. I got some good news.

    .............or I will have to spend the whole day hauling water for him while he grouts all the tile in my house .................................
    Sounds good Dave looking foreword to the improved result if there is any, let you be the judge. It seems like the shaft is improved, plus bearings.

    If it ain't one See-ment it's another, git that grout.

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  • Turion
    replied
    7F43AAA3-8AA5-4056-BF70-50B650F92444.jpeg E53A3460-7DE5-4576-8F29-A794CD93862F.jpeg
    Ok boys and girls. I got some good news. Was able to get that dang magnet that was sticking up too high out of my rotor and replaced it already. It involved a lot of careful work with a masonry bit and a punch sharpened to a needle point on the grinder and driven in at angles once a straight hole was started with the bit. Sucked the pieces out with the stack of 10 neos I have to do the opposition magnets. They had more pulling power than what was left of the broken magnet as long as I made solid contact. You can see that F*%#! white plastic spacer down in the hole.

    Replaced the magnet with a new one (the white arrow in the picture) and all is good. My replacement magnets will be here Friday but I should have most of the machine together by then. Still need to figure out how to mount the motor and connect it to this new, much larger, shaft. But I’ll figure it out. I’ve come THIS far. The finish line is awful close. I cannot wait to get this up and running and see what it is capable of. When my sweetie goes to bed in a couple hours, I'll hop on down to the basement and see how much more I can get put together. Probably everything except the one missing magnet I had to use to replace the rotor magnet I pounded into pieces. If I get the first half put together, I can start working on the motor mount that will have to be built and the connection of the motor to the generator shaft. Regardless of what issues I run into, I should have the whole thing together by this weekend. Sunday I will either have the whole day free to put this together and test, because my contractor its working at my remodel, or I will have to spend the whole day hauling water for him while he grouts all the tile in my house if his son isn't able to do that job. So who knows. Getting very, very close.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-03-2020, 09:36 AM.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    ............. cannot be a priority until I get my house done, but that is weeks away.

    I should have STARTED with a machine that size but nooooooooo, I had to go for the gusto. When will I learn.
    Still all points considered not bad for an armchair pencil pushing See-ment man.You have my vote for President.

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  • Turion
    replied
    It isn't like I'm not working with the generator. I have TWO different projects going where I am working with other people plus my own build. And I just gave one away to someone from the forum who contacted me about my offer. He was willing to pay for shipping, So I sent him one of my prior versions. I just don't have a lot of TIME right now to devote to it and have to squeeze in minutes between other things. It cannot be a priority until I get my house done, but that is weeks away. I still have another energy project that is a higher priority, but I fully intend to finish the generator and produce the best working prototype I can. I also intend to build a smaller version of the machine...almost a kit sized version...that is easy to transport but is a self runner and demonstrates all the principles I have worked to show. I should have STARTED with a machine that size but nooooooooo, I had to go for the gusto. When will I learn. Probably NEVER.

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Bro,


    Now Thaine is going BEYOND eliminating self inductance to using the coils to accelerated the prime mover.

    He may have worked out those bugs. I have not, and don't CARE to even try.
    ,,,,,,, the coating melts and the wires short out,

    If my generator is ever going to be viable, a topology that does not overheat is going to have to be figured out..
    yes once you see something work and know it is possible to generate power from a coil without extreme drag you just follow the experiment to improve it.

    One improvement Thane has among others which I will list now is the rotor design. He went from a few magnets to as high as rotors with 40 poles. With the right size dia (1") using 24 poles this flux pattern greatly CAN lower cogging. Also a "C" core is a mechanical self centering saftey but MORE than that further reduces cogging under the right conditions. I know this is the furthest thing from your mind so I'll say it for others.

    The Shock-it circuit also CAN lower the cogging depending on the condition such as... is the system decelerating and how much but also during acceleration the coil collapse is sent back to charge the battery. There is no way to compare your primitive systems to Thanes, since he in an EE who has gone outside the box to do things no one else can follow.

    finally or 3rd Thane has given the 500 for next level core material from a block wall adapter transformer. This 500 number is old hat or well know, inexpensive relieves the heat used for slightly higher freq than 60hz, can handle 1000hz. Cores will heat up.

    Thane also had heat issues and went to the HT wire along time ago in some of his test models so you are not the only person putting magnets on rotors in the last hundred years only to find all the same things. The designs are found in the marine ship patents built for the past 70 years. Old Old news.

    What is not new is that coils are being put around the same rotor designs that can do things thee military patents are not using. RegenX coils or coils designed to assist rotor action which in and of it self lowers heat due to emf field frictions also cogging but whatever semantic set is comfy lets just say much can be done to make this work using many ideas. Once you have seen it work.

    Always remember just because you find away to lower cogging doesn't mean you have found a way to collect the energy now available that once fought against the rotor action. You have to get that energy in the wire or you will have heat build up. Take a wall adapter up to 1000hz and tell me how long it lasts on idle, 2-3 minutes tops? Yep same as your problem.

    Which ever way you chose to delay the current and voltage. Also "N" "S" motor and gen rotor polarity is the design standard and circuits are already in service, so is Thane's case a choice had to be made.

    Cruising speed is a condition where the rotor does not speed up nor slow down, it is at this place that Thane's rig puts out more than it takes, so what's your question?

    In our case an all "N" rotor works just fine, the system is way less complicated, no magic boxes and by using cancellation a once obsolete hunk of junk MIGHT become the leading seller with the right tuning. To bad you have a made up mind huh?
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-02-2020, 06:04 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    adys15,
    Yes, it changes with RPM.

    Bro,
    For many, many years it was standard practice to use capacitors to eliminate the self inductance in motors. But those capacitors were huge and bulky and would not fit in the motor case. Tesla's patent was to replace those bulky capacitors simply by winding coils in a new way. That's what his patent is all about. I choose to use that SAME principle to wind generator coils with no self inductance, and so did Thaine. Now Thaine is going BEYOND eliminating self inductance to using the coils to accelerated the prime mover. I don't happen to believe in this concept because of what I have seen on the bench. Neutralization, ABSOLUTELY. Acceleration????? Yes, but at a cost that is too great. He may have worked out those bugs. I have not, and don't CARE to even try.

    The point is, they were able to use caps to eliminate self induction in motors for YEARS, despite the fact that they heat up. Bob has been running his for a couple weeks all day every day with no problem. I believe it is an air core coil though. So I'm not sure the cap "heating up" from use is taking it outside its effective range. I would be more worried about coils with iron cores heating up the wire to the point that the coating melts and the wires short out, which MIGHT just heat up the capacitor beyond its effective use. But by then the coil is dead anyway. If my generator is ever going to be viable, a topology that does not overheat is going to have to be figured out. But that's not my job. That's for a design engineer and an electrical engineer. All I want to do is prove that what I have been saying is true.

    alexelectric,
    "Generally" that means there is electricity produced by the flux that there is not enough room in the coils (capacitance) for the wires to store before sending it on. You have given it an additional storage space, and so it is able to provide more energy to the load. I would recommend continuing to add small capacities, if you have any, until you reach the point where the capacitance of the coil is so great it has an effect on the prime mover. In other words, it will eventually cause the motor to speed ups under load at the rpm you are running it, and then you need to back off. You want it neutral, not speeding up the prime mover.

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  • adys15
    replied
    Thanks so much Dave!i will try with lower value capacitors.But that capacitance will change with the rpm no?

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Coils with SELF capacitance because the geometry gives a perfect regulation as winding heat up and changing impedance. A highly specialized circuit might be constructed to bring about the specific values needed and also move small amounts for a non self capacitance coil. When you cook each small change produces a different result. My cookies are burning.

    Caps heat up and change value just running power thru them, wire same and self capacitance however tiny needs to be held to an accurate value. Good luck with that.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-01-2020, 07:14 AM.

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  • Rakarskiy
    replied
    Аlternator autonomous charger and generator of direct and alternating current - YouTube
    https://youtu.be/bPkpcP-94Xs


    Below the video there is a description in Russian: "Installation based on a car generator from UAZ (14 volts 65 amperes), works as an autonomous charger and as a generator (alternating / direct current)

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  • alexelectric
    replied
    Originally posted by adys15 View Post
    Nice setup Dave....I tried hooking a capacitor in paralel with the coil and no change....i tried 20 caps diferent values from 1nF to 1mF .what range of capacitance worked for you?.Do you have to run at high rpm?


    Cheers
    I tested capacitors of about 3 mf in series connection with Mr. Dave's 12-wire coil, and the bulb that was connected as a load gave me much brighter, at an approximate speed of 2800 rpm.
    Last edited by alexelectric; 12-01-2020, 05:50 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    I honestly don’t remember WHAT value the adjustable cap was set to when I was experimenting. I do know I was completely frustrated that I couldn’t get a consistent capacity measurement out if any of my meters as to what the crap is the capacity of my coil so I could tune them all the same.

    Bob French is running a little self running setup right now that charges the battery it runs on and is raising the voltage of that battery. He runs it all day, and then lets it rest for an hour and the voltage is higher than when he started. He uses a battery analyzer to measure the battery also. It isn’t doing any WORK, other than the motor is running, but it is self running. He has one generator coil with a neutralizing magnet. I KNOW he is using the cap across his single generator coil, because I recommended it and it took him a while to find the right one for THAT coil. The capacity increase from a cap for a “neutral” coil is based on several values. The core material, the MASS of the core material. The size of the wire. The number of strands. The length of the strands. The number of strands in series. So rarely will what is right for one coil work for another. I’ll email Bob and see if he remembers the value of the cap he is using. Oh, I just remembered that he sent me a picture, so let me see if I can find it. Yeah. He is using 4 caps in parallel that are 550 picofarads. But that’s for HIS coil and it is a small coil.

    Anybody who has a suggestion for a specific kind of instrument for measuring capacitance of a coil please speak up. I’d buy one in a heartbeat to solve a whole raft of issues I’m dealing with.
    Last edited by Turion; 11-30-2020, 10:50 PM.

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  • adys15
    replied
    Nice setup Dave....I tried hooking a capacitor in paralel with the coil and no change....i tried 20 caps diferent values from 1nF to 1mF .what range of capacitance worked for you?.Do you have to run at high rpm?

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