Motor Generators

[bistander]

... Nano coated copper magnet-wire is another possible game changer

I can't even find where to buy it. called 2G HTS magnet-wire, ...

Do you know what HTS stands for and its meaning in this context? Like 77K.
bi

[BroMikey]

Those are very interesting numbers from a coil that size, no matter WHAT material it is made out of.

Do you have any idea the size of the rotor, the number of magnets on it or the size wire on the coils and LENGTH of wire or number of strands?

I'm going to have to start experimenting with that............................

24 one inch magnets then judging (visually) 1/2" gaps between magnets. approx 14"-15" rotor is needed. Process of deduction. Coil data point 3-4 ohm range approx for the speed up under load section @550-700 feet of thick wire and motor coil point 1-point 2 ohms

Let's not forget that 1520hz is fast so we might need 2nd Gen mag-wire, this part is unclear. These new wires have nano surface coatings of silver then enamel great for HF skin effects. If this type of wire is used it would change all of our commonly used resistance values for generator/motor coils. Nano coated copper magnet-wire is another possible game changer

I can't even find where to buy it. called 2G HTS magnet-wire, here is a write up and some history of evolution.

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdo...=rep1&type=pdf

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/fi...tions_AMSC.pdf

https://mwswire.com/about-magnet-wire/

2014Nano Shield introduced by Rea, which shows exceptional resistance to voltage stresses generated by high frequency, rapid rise time, and voltage spikes typically introduced by IGBT-type inverters, increased motor life significantly over standard MW-35C magnet wire under these voltage stresses and across a wide temperature.

Magnet wire can be found in electric motors, which translate electrical energy into mechanical motion through the interaction of magnetic fields and current-carrying conductors. These electric motors contain copper coils, which produce the magnetic fields.


Northrop Grumman Corporation has developed for the U.S. Navy the world’s first 36.5 megawatt (49,000 horsepower) high temperature superconductor (HTS) ship propulsion motor, double the Navy’s power rating test record.

Incorporating coils of HTS wire that are able to carry 150 times the power of similar-sized copper wire, the motor is less than half the size of conventional motors.

It will help make new ships more fuel-efficient and free up space for additional war fighting capability.

This system was designed and built under a contract from the Office of Naval Research to demonstrate the efficacy of HTS motors as the primary propulsion technology for future

Navy all-electric ships and submarines. Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) funded and led the successful testing of the motor.

[Turion]

Those are very interesting numbers from a coil that size, no matter WHAT material it is made out of. Do you have any idea the size of the rotor, the number of magnets on it or the size wire on the coils and LENGTH of wire or number of strands. I'm going to have to start experimenting with that closed flux loop if you can get THOSE kind of numbers from a coil of that size, because we already know that closed flux loop can be Lenz free. We have seen THAT in the Lindemann attraction motor, so it is possible in a generator.

Wanted to post some info on Bob French's replication of my little single coil motor single coil generator setup. The 7th grade science experiment. Bob says that when he aligns the motor coil directly across the rotor from the generator coil, the opposition magnets, neither N facing NOR S facing have ANY positive effect on RPM. In fact they slow the RPM of the setup no matter how he tries to use them. and only the magnet on the back of the motor coil causes any increased RPM. Just information folks. I am changing my setup over to his alignment when I get the chance to see if I get the same results. It's all very interesting. I am going to try to put together the same rotor and coil setup he has EXACTLY since I have a rotor that matches his perfectly, made by the same individual, and we bought our magnets at the same time from the same place. I just have all that stuff in a box and haven't needed it since I already HAVE a rotor, but it would be nice to have exactly what he has and see if I can get the same results I have been getting with my configuration, and the results he has been getting with HIS configuration. Data is good.

[BroMikey]

This is one way how coils can be made to output excellent power. Keep the coil close to the core meaning for a 3/4" - 7/8" core no more than a 1/2" thick winding. Easy to say and hard to do. 1" magnets back to back no spaces. This is a max rating and Thane runs these continuous 3+ amps = 3 X 80 = 240 watts @3800rpm = 1520HZ

[pmgriphone]

And about Brad(Tinman) and hes motor, I'm not sure that it's OverUnity device, in some cases its very difficult to decide, because it's small line in the beatween,
basically you can not bit Natural lows, in this case low of conservation of energy, you must put out some work to produce energy, it's natural low.

Most likely it is not. What he is using is so-called "parallel path" of magnetic flux. You can read more details here:

https://www.flynnresearch.net/techno...te%20paper.pdf
https://qmpower.com/wp-content/uploa...PPMT-paper.pdf
https://qmpower.com/

Been around for many years now. Just a more efficient motor. Which is what tinman figured out in his experiments as well. But no overunity.

[padova]

yeah dave nanner nanner

Originally posted by bistander View Post


Hi Padova,
By size I presume that you refer to cross sectional area of the core as Turion has increased the length.
FALSE


Originally posted by bistander View Post

Hay Bro,
Actually, this isn't false, I actually wanted to point out to cross section area, nothing more,
and Bi has explained that in this case it isn't that important. And I think he's right,
because it's small difference in voltage output.

regards

And about Brad(Tinman) and hes motor, I'm not sure that it's OverUnity device, in some cases its very difficult to decide, because it's small line in the beatween,
basically you can not beat Natural lows, in this case low of conservation of energy, you must put out some work to produce energy, it's natural low.

[Turion]

If you are talking about my drawing, watch the first video. It shows two N facing magnets on stands, (stator) and a piece of steel is coming down from the rotor and going between them with air gaps on both sides. Tricky.

I put one magnet IN the rotor with a built in air gap of plastic and a piece of steel covering it that REPLACES the piece that has to “stick down” from the rotor. Then you just have to adjust the one remaining magnet on the stator to have the same air gap as the permanent air gap you created between the steel plate and magnet on the rotor with the piece of plastic.

Same machine doing the exact same thing in a slightly different way. But would my way work? I tried it, and it taught me a lot about what I am doing with MY machine. DIdn't do what I thought it would do though. I learned one important principle about what is necessary. There are opposition forces between the two N magnets. If one of them is on the rotor it has an effect on the rotor. The two MAY have to be independent of the rotor in his design just like he has them.

[BroMikey]

What is the purpose of putting a steel plate in front of the rotor magnet?

[Turion]

Here is the Modification I made of the basic idea behind Tin Man's device. The magnet is inset into the rotor deep enough to leave space for an air gap material (In my case I used some clear plastic I had on hand. Then a metal plate that could be screwed in place on both sides with inset screws that would mold to the actual curve of the rotor. Then the stationary magnet on the stator, or in my case, bolted to the bench as was the rotor, is adjustable so you can match the air gap on this side made of actual "air" to the air gap on the opposite side created by the piece of plastic. It is a simplified redesign of what Tin Man shows in the first video.

[Turion]

Tin Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmTCj5E8Si4&t=1130s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQtJTodw3QQ

[BroMikey]

yeah dave nanner nanner

Hi Turion,
You'll notice that not once since this statement of yours have I been uncivil, called you any name or insulted you.
bi

bi,
[B]YOU ARE AN IDIOT. SIMPLE. YOU TWIST EVERY STATEMENT I MAKE. YOU TAKE THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT. YOU NITPICK MY WORD CHOICE. YOU WHITEWASH THE MISTAKES YOU MAKE OR OUTRIGHT IGNORE THEM.

Good post Padova. Bye is very irritating and it's this type of twisted stuff that gets him called out. bye knows what he is doing.

Turion,
you should increase the size of the core, it's not the same material any more, you must provide magnetic path through the core,
I'm surprised that Bistander didn't mentioned that, considering that he's an expert in generators.

regards

Hi Padova,
By size I presume that you refer to cross sectional area of the core as Turion has increased the length.
FALSE

Turion typically talks about the mass of the core

FALSE

Some folks do realize the importance of the cross sectional area.

FALSE

But in this case, where he is increasing the windings in the coil, a cross sectional area increase would not be needed, if it was sufficient before.

FALSE

The flux, and therefore flux density, is dependent on the field magnet, and that remains the same.

FALSE

Assuming........be of benefit, but so small as not to justify the added complexity (cost, time) to implement.

FALSE

bi

The computer revolution changed the meaning of lots of terms besides bits, bites and program. I remember reading an entire novel where every word was written phonetically (the way it sounds) rather than the normal way it is spelled. At first it was weird, almost like a foreign language, but within a few pages it became quite easy. It was interesting.

Some people here have no desire to actually communicate. Their entire focus is proving that they are right and others are wrong. I am not going to change. Those who are having trouble understanding me are welcome to ask and I will do my very best to explain.

[Turion]

Since this is just a prototype and I do not want to build another whole new machine I am going to probably just take what I get with the change I have made. I increased the length of the core material and the length of the wire. If the magnets aren’t enough to provide the flux it will require a design change. My original build had rotors on BOTH ends of the coils but I got the same output from a single rotor, so I assumed the cores couldn’t accept any more flux anyway.

Then I started reducing the diameter of the magnets and increasing their thickness and observing output at the same RPM. And I started experimenting with core materials and the size of cores and coils. This is the change in mass of core material Or mass of magnets I refer to. Mass can be used to mean size or volume. It doesn’t ALWAYS have to be the same definition as in physics. Originally it meant a DISORGANIZED volume of something. A cancerous tumor is sometimes referred to as a “mass” by doctors. It has nothing to do with physics in that definition. But slowly that “not physics” definition has changed to where it is used to mean simply a “larger amount” or in some cases LARGER amount. Larger magnets would, under this definition, have a greater mass. This may not be the Wikipedia definition of “mass” but it is used that way in literature, and that is my background, not physics or science. Search antonyms and you will see “mass” come up in reference to size quite often. Sorry I don’t live and die by Wikipedia. But a very famous writer (who was a terrible speller) once told me he had no respect for people who could only spell a word one way, and as long as the meaning was clear and people could read and understand, what difference does it make how it was spelled? I tend to feel the same about the meaning of words sometimes. Could the meaning be understood? If not, why not. We used to be able to communicate without dictionaries. How was THAT even possible? And who is the king who gets to decide what the definition of “mass” is? And who decides when enough people are using a word in a different way to change the Wikipedia definition? I can think of MANY words that were used differently than their dictionary definition until eventually that definition was added to the dictionary. The computer revolution changed the meaning of lots of terms besides bits, bites and program. I remember reading an entire novel where every word was written phonetically (the way it sounds) rather than the normal way it is spelled. At first it was weird, almost like a foreign language, but within a few pages it became quite easy. It was interesting.

Some people here have no desire to actually communicate. Their entire focus is proving that they are right and others are wrong. I am not going to change. Those who are having trouble understanding me are welcome to ask and I will do my very best to explain.

[BroMikey]

Not too long. The coil holder is that deep.

Really? Awesome, I can hardly wait to see if you get the power you need. A 1" core might be to large if you switched over because your magnets are 3/4".

This week is chemo. This mean's Monday thru Friday so I am struck on the open road. My numbers have shocked all of the Doctor's since the Leukemia is leaving. They said my age group with my problems die within 6 months. That would be April but instead my immune system has returned to normal. Big win for me. Only a few percent in my age bracket survive if they get AML.

God has revived me. Sweet, plus I feel so good.

[padova]

Hi Padova,
By size I presume that you refer to cross sectional area of the core as Turion has increased the length. Turion typically talks about the mass of the core Some folks do realize the importance of the cross sectional area. But in this case, where he is increasing the windings in the coil, a cross sectional area increase would not be needed, if it was sufficient before. The flux, and therefore flux density, is dependent on the field magnet, and that remains the same. Assuming the present operating condition is not saturated, then increase of area lowers the flux density and might lower the reluctance of the core, which would be of benefit, but so small as not to justify the added complexity (cost, time) to implement.
Good thought. Thanks for the discussion.
bi

Ok, thank you for clarification

[bistander]

Turion,
you should increase the size of the core, it's not the same material any more, you must provide magnetic path through the core,
I'm surprised that Bistander didn't mentioned that, considering that he's an expert in generators.

regards

Hi Padova,
By size I presume that you refer to cross sectional area of the core as Turion has increased the length. Turion typically talks about the mass of the core Some folks do realize the importance of the cross sectional area. But in this case, where he is increasing the windings in the coil, a cross sectional area increase would not be needed, if it was sufficient before. The flux, and therefore flux density, is dependent on the field magnet, and that remains the same. Assuming the present operating condition is not saturated, then increase of area lowers the flux density and might lower the reluctance of the core, which would be of benefit, but so small as not to justify the added complexity (cost, time) to implement.
Good thought. Thanks for the discussion.
bi