Bedini Earth Light

[John_Bedini]

The oscillator for the crystal cell.

Ron,
The oscillator Patent can be seen in Post: 2604.
The basic thing with the crystal cells, is the issue of impedance, depending on the material used. The cells usually runs between 25K ohms to 250 Ohms. This is not good when we think about batteries as normal batteries usually are very low impedance Lead Acid .00025 Ohms deep cycle. We have noticed the Crystal does depend on how much water can be locked up, and yes the Marcus Reid cells do lock up the water in the material. The major thing about the Crystal cells is how much water can you lock up in the material. I was going to explain this until I got side tracked by the "Missing link". By locking up the water in the lattice the impedance will reduce increasing in the current output of the cell. That is why I have been saying The Hydrates and the Heptahydrates, here is my thinking you want to stretch the molecules into long chains, because it is the ions that drive this cell. The trick is to not have the electrodes consumed, 1 to 5 % loss is nothing in this cell. It's when you get to a 95% loss of the negative electrode that you have a real problem, that's why the post. It is very important that you understand what metals the Hydrate will attack, Those metals are, Aluminum, Lead, Tin, forming hydrogen gas. it is a strong Base, it reacts violently with acids. So we can see that the Hydrate or Sodium Metasilicate 5H2O will not attack the Magnesium.
But back to the oscillator, it is very easy to make as it only requires a little time. Just stretch out two #30 wires for 40 feet and twist them together, then with a simple change to the Monopole Motor circuit you will have an open loop oscillator running that will drive your led's, Again it is in post 2604 for the patent. More later I must go to work.
John B

[NextGen1967]

one more important point about oscillator is that they are capable of working with different input impedance while maintaining an independent output impedance.

Before some engineers kill me for that, let me give a real example. You can use Bedini oscillator for example to light LEDs when running the Crystal cells and you will have from 10ma to 20ma consumption of energy total per second on a meter while the input voltage could be low as 3 volts.

With 3 volts I can light an LED and very well with 20ma but the SAME cell may not give you 20ma directly connected to the LED. This particular oscillator will "trick" the cell in thinking it has a much lower input resistance (impedance) and give off a lot of more current at certain time frame but not for twice that same time frame. So in effect you have the same output power from the cell? not really.

The cell will behave totally different when connect to that particular oscillator than when connected directly to the LED.

Connected to the LED directly may only give 2ma total output while with the oscillator will give 20ma. I have done that experiment and it is just like that.

So, oscillators have the ability to change the "perceived" input resistance the LED give to the cell so that it changes how the cell can give its power to the "output" resistance perceived.

Very organic and non-intuitive. A great benefit of the crystal cells, that not so many (with obvious exception of Bedini and Chuck) is that this cells are very capable of "recharging" themselves really fast wich is another factor to be studied.

We all know that batteries have a "recovery" period when we use their energy but these crystal cells are very different in the sense they really create power and recover at the same time allowing us to user oscillators in a much more efficient manner.

Fausto.

Excellent point! (that is also my motive for the 6 stage oscillator for the solar panels).

Especially this part:

With 3 volts I can light an LED and very well with 20ma but the SAME cell may not give you 20ma directly connected to the LED. This particular oscillator will "trick" the cell in thinking it has a much lower input resistance (impedance) and give off a lot of more current at certain time frame but not for twice that same time frame.

Because *each* cell we all make here, will have its own specific impedance at which the cell would perform optimal.

I really think it would help us all a lot if we could come to agree to use a set of 8 resistors -we would all use the same eight 1% resistors-, and make a chart with 10 lines (include open and short circuit voltage), in which each that makes a cell, fills in the resistance, voltage, amperage, and watts measured over each resistor... This would only be 5 minute job or so, and the most simple multimeter and calculator would do.

Personal gain for each who do so, is that:

1) you will instantly know whether a LED will light on your cell or nor, and even about how bright it will be, even before you actually attach a led or circuit :-)
2) You will know with some degree of accuracy at which your cell feels best (its working impedance).
3) For those who chart and math. it can tell you tons of other things, and can help one to predict future behavior of cells (to a degree).

And with many types of cell, we could say this cell is best at this and that cell is best at that...

How about such an proposal ? Any ???

--
Ron.

[NextGen1967]

Ron Have you tried the Oscillators that Chuck and I build? The basic idea with the circuit we use is because, Most oscillators need a much higher voltage then these cells can supply. For example the one we build can run down to .2 volts and has a range from .2volts to 10 volts and a max of 250 Ma. The basic oscillator was developed for solar cells in low light. The oscillator circuit is an open loop system. To take advantage of the Crystal Cell the oscillator must be able to generate a high voltage spike and the peak of that spike is what drives the led directly to ground of the circuit. Most Led's are 2.5 to 3 volts or somewhere in that range. Now most of the time the crystal cells are .255 volts to 1.1 volts at between 2 to 25Ma typical
loading with the oscillator is 5 Ma depending on the duty cycle of the spike
is the factor in how bright the Led is going to be. The Joule Thief is as stated it will suck every Joule out of the battery until dead as it was desinged to do on already spent batteries, so it is not that efficent on Crystal cells. The most important part is the tuning of base circuit and the highest frequency so the Led does not waver in light output under load. Solar lights use this same method except much more current. Hope this helps.
John B

John

No, I did not have tried any of these circuits, if you could provide me your latest accurate schematic, I could replicate it... I *do* have A bunch of standard electronics, but I do lack a good set of inductors. I am about to order a set of inductors tough.

I have my own build oscillator here which works from about 0.16 volt and up to about 250 volt (I made it an multi purpose one, with 6 control pots), but the cost of it was tremendous high, due to a custom made toroid (20+ H @ less then 1.5 ohm dc resistance), and due to this, there are losses when going above about 1Khz (knee at 996 Hz).

So smart you.. Hehe, I just ordered some 350 solar cells (still waiting for the last set), and also thought of a circuit to 'squeeze' out everything available out of the solar cells... I came up with a 6 stage oscillator design switching down each time as sun sets or cloudy weather ... keeping the power output level at the best possible working impedance range.

As for the cells, When one modifies the super penny circuit and have a round ferrite bar, with about 100-200uH (free choice, depending on cell characteristics) coil wound on a paper slider, the circuit becomes very easy to tune, and one can give either the base a bit more juice, or the led driving inductor.. also, by sliding the paper over the ferrite, we can choose the 'best' uH/frequency (read load) at which a particular cell feels best. And of course one or two small magnets could also be used for tuning.

Right, that spike!

I 'inserted' some 158 volts PtP (58 rms) of potential at a certain point in the circuit, and *gosh* I was surprised at the brightness the LED got.. This 158 volts comes from a pin in the ground combined with stray line voltage, and I used and use that in many experiments, and so far, I *never* got it to shine a led *that* bright as I saw now... This voltage is nearly PURE potential... This prompted me to build an HV source (thus my need for Mylar), but sigh, no Mylar.. will try one more store here to see.. I really need that Mylar. (Need a 100nF cap at least, at 28Kv DC, so quite some sized cap). HV will turn out to be around 8260 volt at 0.5 uA, with ability to drop to 0.05 uA on demand.

I have a special pinpointed reason to do this HV test in combination with a cell and oscillator.

Thank you by the way for the reply on my other post... hehe, I do know about Micro Wave, as I needed to design my own antenna's (wive is running internet cafe in a rural place).

John, if you are free to reply this: in your opinion, does the MR cell rely on a -tiny tiny- amount of inbuilt water, or is ANYwater at all an hindrance for that type of cell?

If I may explain:

It occurs -to me- that the type of cell you and chuck present is *nearly* an MR cell, but each type is approached in a different way... I would say: MR goes 'A b C' while you go 'A f d e C'...

To be more exact, ehhm how to describe, It *seems* (although I have NO MR cells to test - I purely do deduction and elimination of factors), that MR is using a 'stair case' or 'pump' effect in his cell... He use a double sided direction and at some crossing point, there is an 'exchange' of energy happening, resulting in the by you mentioned 1 to 2mA.. A chemical trick, which -probably- is achieved by 'arranging' the crystal structure in a pre-defined pattern... With pre-defined I mean at construction stage, something is defined and it keeps that way from that point on... If *this* would get lost, or is done wrongly, the MR cell would cease operation.

Another more simple way to describe it: our cells use 'forced' exchange, while an MR cell uses 'natural' exchange.

Again, this all is based on deduction and excluding of what it can not be, so it is basically just my best guess. Knowing whether either a incredible small amount of water is a need, or a hindrance, would enable me to exclude a bunch of 'what it is not' again. At this moment of time, I hang more to the side that water (molecules) in his cell is a NONO, and the less there are in there, the better.

Besides that, hehe I'm sure some of us come up soon with cells that surpass MR cells by far :-) .. You, Chuck and others have shown already MUCH more amps are possible, tough time would need to prove if they can last for 5, 10 or up years. A couple of years back I was doing the same (make cells), but then PURE for potential reasons, so I have some advantage on these matter already, and these cells were more plastic/resin based. I took a few old ones out of the junk box, and tough dusty and dirty, they still have their potential, which not surprised me tough.

In between everything here (little time), I work on two sides: One is the somewhat 'wet' cell (water molecules needed), and Two is the NON water molecules needed type. The HV *if* successful outcome in the to come experiment, will prompt me to construct a 3th type of cell which would be actually a cell existing out of 2 components, complementing each other. Hehe, think of Tesla here, but then in small size

@Chuck, I realized such already

--
Ron

[chuck H]

Posted by John Bedini

Last post was by John on My laptop.

[chuck H]

Oscillators without a closed loop

Ron Have you tried the Oscillators that Chuck and I build? The basic idea with the circuit we use is because, Most oscillators need a much higher voltage then these cells can supply. For example the one we build can run down to .2 volts and has a range from .2volts to 10 volts and a max of 250 Ma. The basic oscillator was developed for solar cells in low light. The oscillator circuit is an open loop system. To take advantage of the Crystal Cell the oscillator must be able to generate a high voltage spike and the peak of that spike is what drives the led directly to ground of the circuit. Most Led's are 2.5 to 3 volts or somewhere in that range. Now most of the time the crystal cells are .255 volts to 1.1 volts at between 2 to 25Ma typical
loading with the oscillator is 5 Ma depending on the duty cycle of the spike
is the factor in how bright the Led is going to be. The Joule Thief is as stated it will suck every Joule out of the battery until dead as it was desinged to do on already spent batteries, so it is not that efficent on Crystal cells. The most important part is the tuning of base circuit and the highest frequency so the Led does not waver in light output under load. Solar lights use this same method except much more current. Hope this helps.
John B

[plengo]

one more important point about oscillator is that they are capable of working with different input impedance while maintaining an independent output impedance.

Before some engineers kill me for that, let me give a real example. You can use Bedini oscillator for example to light LEDs when running the Crystal cells and you will have from 10ma to 20ma consumption of energy total per second on a meter while the input voltage could be low as 3 volts.

With 3 volts I can light an LED and very well with 20ma but the SAME cell may not give you 20ma directly connected to the LED. This particular oscillator will "trick" the cell in thinking it has a much lower input resistance (impedance) and give off a lot of more current at certain time frame but not for twice that same time frame. So in effect you have the same output power from the cell? not really.

The cell will behave totally different when connect to that particular oscillator than when connected directly to the LED.

Connected to the LED directly may only give 2ma total output while with the oscillator will give 20ma. I have done that experiment and it is just like that.

So, oscillators have the ability to change the "perceived" input resistance the LED give to the cell so that it changes how the cell can give its power to the "output" resistance perceived.

Very organic and non-intuitive. A great benefit of the crystal cells, that not so many (with obvious exception of Bedini and Chuck) is that this cells are very capable of "recharging" themselves really fast wich is another factor to be studied.

We all know that batteries have a "recovery" period when we use their energy but these crystal cells are very different in the sense they really create power and recover at the same time allowing us to user oscillators in a much more efficient manner.

Fausto.

[NickZ]

Yes, I was thinking in terms of voltage. I realize that no amount of voltage can duplicate the light intensity given off by leds that are provided with their recommend current levels. But having more leds available to more cells will make up for the lesser light intensity obtained from the leds, when they are connected to the oscillator circuits.
I agree that the best way to light leds is by using a direct connection to the source, but oscillators can approach what can only be called magic, for lack of a better term. Although oscillators are totally dependent on a fixed and not variable input level, to maintain their best resonance frequencies up and running optimally, otherwise the magic is gone.

[NextGen1967]

Ron, Brad and All:
I have been playing around with the different types of blocking oscillator circuits to see if I can get them to work with the dry carbon cells. But I have not been able to get anymore light from them with the oscillators than what the cells can do on their own, without them. Even when using several volts worth of cells connected in series, there is practically no current, (2 mA, or less) in the non galvanic cells. And a blinking led or dimly lit one is not what I'll looking for. But instead to light several leds very brightly, on just potential, if this is really possible.
So, how much current is actually needed to really light up (not barely light). lets say a dozen white leds, using 4 or 5 volts??? 1 mA, 10mA, 50mA...?

Or should I ask, which is the best circuit to use with cells that are LOW CURRENT output type cells? The pancakes coils, or ready made chokes, higher perm ferrite cores, air cores, quantum reactor girators circuits, SEC circuits, or what? What works the best with low or no current type cells?

Nick,

Firstly, to make something clear. Which ever kind of type oscillator one uses, they will always have losses, so *theoretical* it is 'better' to light a led directly from a battery if possible, then from an oscillator.

However, if one fiddles around with an oscillator, it can be made in such a way that efficiency reach between 90 to 98%, and in such cases, I beg to argument that the oscillator is more effective then a led directly on a battery (since most of the times, a current limiting resistor is needed in the direct way, which throws away energy).

The real advantage of using an oscillator is the fact it can run on very low source voltages, and still able to light up a led as bright as it supposed to be.

Then, how much is needed to light a LED super bright? hehe, *what* is super bright?

No, generally a normal 5mm white LED in standardized configuration nowadays is to be used at 3.0 to 3.2 volt @ 20mA (fabric specifications). This will light up the led 'super bright'.... However, no one is stopping you to *actually* push 40mA through the LED, and it will definitely shine more 'super bright' then before..... However, the LED its lifetime will be seriously shortened.

In short, suppose we get a 9 volt battery and place the LED *directly* on the battery (with a current limiting resistor), so that the led receives exact 20mA. ( lets say 3.2V @ 20mA = 64 mW )

Then, we place a LED on a high efficient oscillator, and have the cell powering it to deliver exactly 64mW to the circuit... (at whatever voltage the cell is delivering).

Then when both LEDs have the same specification, the LEDs will produce *nearly* the same amount of light (the human eye will be unable to differentiate).

There is a trade-off in bright and more super bright... When we put the LED on a blocking oscillator, one will see that at around say 1.5 volt and 1 to 2mA, the LED actually gets pretty bright (can't look into the led center anymore, because eye will start to hurt)... Now from around that level (1 to 2mA), providing MORE amps will relatively give less and less 'more brightness'... Meaning, with 2mA we got the LED this bright, now to 'double' the brightness, we not simply apply 2+2=4mA, but to double it brightness, may take more mA (nonlinear... output is not directly proportional to its input).

To light a dozen (12 LEDS) in standard fabric specifications (say 3.2v @ 20mA), would require 12*3.2*0.02 = 768mW of energy, no matter it it is powered directly, or through an oscillator.

I would say, the penny oscillator is pretty efficient, use toroid(s) to increase efficiency, and have the switching frequency not to high.

As side note, When using the oscillator, in certain cases you can get additional energy into the circuit for 'free'... So besides the source cell, the 'external' incoming energy can *really* help to get the circuit more powerful. (I am pointing in the direction of 'potential only' here, Tesla's way).

Give me a few days time, as I *try* to put something together to see (and measure) the effects of these. Yeah, need to go to the shop... Get some mylar! (crossing fingers they have!).

--
Ron.

[jehdds]

I performed another interesting experiment today. I took a big rock and sat it in a bowl of water. Next to the rock but not touching the rock was a copper wire that laid in the bowl of water with the rock. The positive of the meter was connected to the copper wire while the negative was connected to magnesium ribbon. When I placed the magnesium ribbon on top of the dry rock I would get little to no voltage. But If i made a small damp spot on top of the rock making sure that that small damp spot never came in contact with the water in the bowl and then placed the magnesium electrode on that damp spot i would get a volt. The damp spot was in no way touching the water in the bowl so this tells me the energy can travel through the rock but the electrodes must be in contact with water but the water that touches each metal does not need to be the same water.

The Energy can travel through rock - YouTube

IB,
Micro Capillary action must not be underestimated.... Check out what they have recently discovered about graphene....
Unimpeded Permeation of Water Through Helium-Leak–Tight Graphene-Based Membranes

I have seen your effect with many a crystal cell type. Sucks the water in like a vacuum cleaner!
Crystalline lattice which may have some hydration need only a bit to cause conduction. Remember my multiple laminate cell that I imbedded into the tackle box, just a few crumbs of the dry electrolyte was enough to cause conduction between compartments. What you are now seeing so clearly is that it need be an infinitely small amount of water necessary with certain minerals to allow for conduction. Thanks for the test and good work.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[ibpointless2]

I performed another interesting experiment today. I took a big rock and sat it in a bowl of water. Next to the rock but not touching the rock was a copper wire that laid in the bowl of water with the rock. The positive of the meter was connected to the copper wire while the negative was connected to magnesium ribbon. When I placed the magnesium ribbon on top of the dry rock I would get little to no voltage. But If i made a small damp spot on top of the rock making sure that that small damp spot never came in contact with the water in the bowl and then placed the magnesium electrode on that damp spot i would get a volt. The damp spot was in no way touching the water in the bowl so this tells me the energy can travel through the rock but the electrodes must be in contact with water but the water that touches each metal does not need to be the same water.

The Energy can travel through rock - YouTube

[plengo]

@All,

today completes a 4 months 2 AA alkaline batteries running one 10mm LED (just like in my videos) where it is now very, very dim. It took 2 AA 4 months to be useless. No oscillators here. I bet a joule thief would extend its life a little bit more.

By same token I have cells running since August 2011 and are still running as bright as when they were born, actually brighter. So, crystal cell is more powerful than today's alkaline batteries that you can on the super market. They don't give a lot of current at first but stand a longer, much longer time in effect making them more powerful.


@Chuck,

that is soooo cool. A crystal charging regular batteries and other crystal cells.

Fausto.

[chuck H]

Hydrate cell charging

This video shows the sealed hydrate cells running in a primary and secondary configuration and running the LED. The voltage and amperage goes up on the secondary cells and the osc circuit still lights the LED bright. This is not something that needs to be done we are only showing that it can be done. This would be better on a NiMh battery which we will show later.

Crystal battery charging crystal battery - YouTube

I put a NiMh AAA battery on this circuit last Friday. It was at about .8V as I had ran it dead and left it on a osc circuit all night. Today the AAA NiMh is at 1.166V. I put 4 of the Sealed hydrate cells in parallel to do this. We will try to show a video of this later. As for now we are making an IB2 salt sub cell we will post a video on in the next day or so.

[NickZ]

Ron, Brad and All:
I have been playing around with the different types of blocking oscillator circuits to see if I can get them to work with the dry carbon cells. But I have not been able to get anymore light from them with the oscillators than what the cells can do on their own, without them. Even when using several volts worth of cells connected in series, there is practically no current, (2 mA, or less) in the non galvanic cells. And a blinking led or dimly lit one is not what I'll looking for. But instead to light several leds very brightly, on just potential, if this is really possible.
So, how much current is actually needed to really light up (not barely light). lets say a dozen white leds, using 4 or 5 volts??? 1 mA, 10mA, 50mA...?

Or should I ask, which is the best circuit to use with cells that are LOW CURRENT output type cells? The pancakes coils, or ready made chokes, higher perm ferrite cores, air cores, quantum reactor girators circuits, SEC circuits, or what? What works the best with low or no current type cells?

[NextGen1967]

Food for thought, here is a link of someone attempting to use low power DIY battery to recharge commercial battery.

http://madscientisthut.com/wordpress/tag/homemade-battery/

Quote from article:
"I know many of you think how can this be useful since it takes a month to charge the NiMh battery, but there are many situations where I think this could come in handy. This low cost circuit provides a source of light as well as being a battery charger. There are plenty of places in the world where electric power is not a luxury of life, and there are plenty of things that you can make low voltage sources with that the Joule Thief circuit will happily run off of. This is what energy harvesting is all about, lets make some use out of something that we could not use before."

Brad S

Brad,

Funny that you mention that info... THIS place here *IS* a place where electric power is 'gift' to own, as well as water and gas. (We our self use gas tanks here).

I managed to get the cost of a modified 'super penny' INCLUSIVE solar cell down to a cost for less then a dollar, I still look for a good (read dirt cheap) kind of battery to store the daylight collected energy.. It could light up a white led bright enough to serve as 'room light', and able to shine for 4 to 4.5 hours.

It is a great idea to hand these to the people here around, I have done such already with (kind of concrete batteries, and antenna wires etc.), but these are more troublesome then the super penny... For a total cost of maybe USD 1.25 inclusive the 'storage cell' would be a really good solution.

An crystal cell delivering 1.5 volt at some 1 to 2mA would do also and would even be better (if cost is low), and provided maintenance is easy. Goal is to have a 'storage cell or crystal cell' that maintains it good condition for 3 to 5 years.

--
Ron.

[b_rads]

Potential uses for low power cells

Food for thought, here is a link of someone attempting to use low power DIY battery to recharge commercial battery.

http://madscientisthut.com/wordpress/tag/homemade-battery/

Quote from article:
"I know many of you think how can this be useful since it takes a month to charge the NiMh battery, but there are many situations where I think this could come in handy. This low cost circuit provides a source of light as well as being a battery charger. There are plenty of places in the world where electric power is not a luxury of life, and there are plenty of things that you can make low voltage sources with that the Joule Thief circuit will happily run off of. This is what energy harvesting is all about, lets make some use out of something that we could not use before."

Brad S