Bedini Earth Light

[NextGen1967]

The compression of the pulverized carbon that I use in the aluminum capacitor can cells, along with the layered quartz in the mix, are showing proportionally more output, the more the mix is compressed, to a point.
I also attribute that voltage increase to the better conductivity that is obtained by the compression of the mix, and possibly a slight piezoelectric effect from the quartz. Not just a temporary kick, but a permanent one, as long as the presure is maintained.
The Great Pyramid shows a permanent piezo effect, from the weight of the granite blocks.
A Tourmaline and carbon mix as an electrolyte sounds very interesting to me. If I can find and pulverize the tourmaline, similar to how I do with the quartz.
I think that a cells electrolyte mix would benefit from a tiny bit of glue in the mix, like an epoxy (with no water content), and allowed to totally harden, but while the cell is under constant extreme compression, (like from a hydrolic press). Also the polarizing effect that even a strong magnet can have on the still wet electrolyte mix, can also help to create or aline the Ion channels, while the cell mix is still curing.

How to obtain more current from a solid state cell, is still the question.
On the other hand, can just "Voltage Potential" only, really be used for at least the lighting of several leds. As I find that even with a voltage of 7.5 volts coming from a few of my dry carbon/quartz cells connected in series, that I can not light even one led, by themselves, without some current also.
What do you think???

NickZ

@NickZ

About the can just 'voltage potential only'....

Yes and no

Yes it *can* light up 1 to 100000 LEDs, depending on how high the voltage potential is.

But NO, it can't do that *if* there is not at least enough micro amps to overcome circuit resistances... the legs of the led -although minim- do have an resistance, placing say 10 LEDs in a breadboard an have some bridges and contact wires, will possibly mean some 0.05 Ohm or so resistance... If an applied potential has not enough 'amps' to overcome these resistances, it won't work.

Tesla, found a nice solution to this problem, as -I guess- he did understand something about 'volts' and 'amps' that -seems to be- lost in time... Maybe he thought *why* use a tank circuit only in a ONE way direction... *why* not use it on both sides (e.g. as an transmitter AND receiver at the same time and using a single channel).... As the potential is free to grab everywhere around us.

Also, maybe he wanted to reach a higher frequency, and thus came up with a pancake coil to experiment with it.

Edit: Nick, using a modified replica of the super penny, I am able to blink a white led on (out of my head) 0.46Volt at 3.5uA (under load). At about 1 volt and 10 to 50uA, I can get the LED in continue mode (from very dim to clearly but not bright visible). At some 1 volt and 1mA, the LED becomes just to bright to look into its center from a foot distance. At some 1.5volt @1.8mA, I can faintly see the beam 'dot' on the ceiling. My own MEGA penny (made long before the existence of penny (An over 20H coil), and more a sub replica of GotoLuc's 'self running coil' project, could go to extreme low voltages... I managed to get it going at below 0.16 volt and about a couple of uA's (under load). Of course, all this with use of the oscillator circuit, because the cell voltage can't reach above 1.5 volt.

--
Ron.

[NextGen1967]

@Ron,

I can see what you mean about the crystals are now more compact so now more can touch the metals. I have done the experiment with putting the cell on ice to see if the voltage will go down. I have made a Youtube video of it but It will take time to upload. The cell started at .999 volts and when I grabbed it it jump up to 1.035 volts due to my body heat and then started to go down as it sat in the ice.

Over all the cell seems to be loosing its power, two days ago it was at 1.2 volts now it is holding on to over 1 volt. It is getting colder here and when I did make the cell we did have some oddly warm weather and since its cooling down the cell could be cooling down too. Or the cell a exhibiting a drawn out piezoelectric effect, instead of burst power it holds it and slowly do to the resistance of the cell will start to drain over time. These are the two ideas i have as to why it seems to be going down. But I can tell you it is affected by pressure and heat or lack of heat. the YouTube video will be uploaded.

IB,

Thanks for that really quick response! and thanks for the video, as that allowed me to see the rate of change for a few seconds.

If I may add some extra insights, but keep in mind, what follows between the lines, I have *not* tested myself yet (I will go do this tough).

----------------

Personally, I do not really think that the constant pressure has much to do with the piezo effect itself, although it is *true* that the crystals structure is under a constant pressure... My believe -at this point of time- is that those 3 points I mentioned before are the cause of the voltage jump. Having seen the rate of change on your vid, and a *very rough* estimation, It does support this idea.

*However*, due to the compactness, the cell get more sensitive (the more pressure, the more sensitive) to environmental heat. Simply because of the lack of voids in the compressed mix. This is a quite strong indication supporting the 3 points thoughts.

-----------------------------

As for the slow voltage drop over time, this can really be due to a lot of factors, and most likely a mix of factors.

In the coming days I'll do a replica of your tube, but will use Rochelle salt, due to lack of substitute salts... Not available where I live.

Note however that we might need to fly off to some distance location three or 4 times the coming weeks, so I might need to postpone test.

Ok, when I do a test, I am really 'a bad person to myself', and try to 'debunk' a find that i did. If i am able to 'debunk' the find, it is likely that the find was wrong, and I'll try to come up with a better explanation... I keep doing this, till in the end, i am unable to debunk myself, and more likely, *this* last non debunked find will be closer to reality (it still could be wrong tough).

Also, take your tube test for example, I usually make at least TWO (2) as closely matched as possible cells... ONE i would compress, the other not.... In doing so, one could see -for example-, the *difference* in rate of change when either cell is cooled in ice water (next time add some could water to the ice, but be absolutely sure, water can't get into the cell), or the rate of change when applying heat. also, Do both cells drop as fast over time? (the slow decrease in voltage over days time span you mentioned) ( compute 'equalize' voltages here to compare apples with apples).

Have thought to apply sound to the cells, or a -controlled- vibration, what happens when we pulse the cells with voltage... etc etc etc.

I think you know what I mean? One could do a many fold of test with them. In such way of testing, it becomes more easy to 'translate' an 'i think' into an 'I am reasonable sure' that etc etc etc.

The only thing with this method is that test become more costly, and they consume -A LOT- of time.

Nowadays, the trial & error method is vastly replaced with computer simulations, and I personally find such a bid sad, as it takes away the mind... which is -up to today-, much more inventive than a computer. However I am not anti computer or so

--
Ron.

[ibpointless2]

I got some interesting numbers from some simple cells.

I went outside to get some good old dirt and put it in a cup. I inserted some copper and magnesium electrodes in the dirt and I got 1.450 volts @ 10uA. I added a little bit of water and that brought me up to 1.606 volts @ 300uA. After all that I added a bit of Epsom salt to the dirt-water and I was getting 1.665volts @ 3mA! Something about the Hydrate Epsom salt that gave the cell a bigger boost, it went from .300mA to 3.0mA! This was a very interesting thing to see.

The reason for me using the dirt was that dirt has living organisms and different minerals too. It was a flashback to the old days where we were making earth batteries too. I was hoping the minerals in the dirt will be good enough to help to protect the metals? Also the dirt was dirt cheap

[NickZ]

The compression of the pulverized carbon that I use in the aluminum capacitor can cells, along with the layered quartz in the mix, are showing proportionally more output, the more the mix is compressed, to a point.
I also attribute that voltage increase to the better conductivity that is obtained by the compression of the mix, and possibly a slight piezoelectric effect from the quartz. Not just a temporary kick, but a permanent one, as long as the presure is maintained.
The Great Pyramid shows a permanent piezo effect, from the weight of the granite blocks.
A Tourmaline and carbon mix as an electrolyte sounds very interesting to me. If I can find and pulverize the tourmaline, similar to how I do with the quartz.
I think that a cells electrolyte mix would benefit from a tiny bit of glue in the mix, like an epoxy (with no water content), and allowed to totally harden, but while the cell is under constant extreme compression, (like from a hydrolic press). Also the polarizing effect that even a strong magnet can have on the still wet electrolyte mix, can also help to create or aline the Ion channels, while the cell mix is still curing.

How to obtain more current from a solid state cell, is still the question.
On the other hand, can just "Voltage Potential" only, really be used for at least the lighting of several leds. As I find that even with a voltage of 7.5 volts coming from a few of my dry carbon/quartz cells connected in series, that I can not light even one led, by themselves, without some current also.
What do you think???



NickZ

[ibpointless2]

Crystal pressure cell place in ice. Crystal Cells on Ice - YouTube

[ibpointless2]

@Ron,

I can see what you mean about the crystals are now more compact so now more can touch the metals. I have done the experiment with putting the cell on ice to see if the voltage will go down. I have made a Youtube video of it but It will take time to upload. The cell started at .999 volts and when I grabbed it it jump up to 1.035 volts due to my body heat and then started to go down as it sat in the ice.

Over all the cell seems to be loosing its power, two days ago it was at 1.2 volts now it is holding on to over 1 volt. It is getting colder here and when I did make the cell we did have some oddly warm weather and since its cooling down the cell could be cooling down too. Or the cell a exhibiting a drawn out piezoelectric effect, instead of burst power it holds it and slowly do to the resistance of the cell will start to drain over time. These are the two ideas i have as to why it seems to be going down. But I can tell you it is affected by pressure and heat or lack of heat. the YouTube video will be uploaded.

[NextGen1967]

<removed for brevity reasons>
Also one can not over look that when crystals are stressed they do give off electrons, but they're are not known for giving off electrons for a continuous amount of time.

I consider that pressure cell video a good video to show that nature will supply the voltage for you but you can't rely on her to give you current.

IB,

Just a small note, I do understand your notation of giving off electrons etc, and you can always use these terms to describe, but if your mind has nothing to do for a while, think about it... *why* do they give off 'electrons'

The I consider part: Voltage (potential) is indeed everywhere.. lift your hands and place them 5 cm from each other.... Now you have potential (voltage) between your hands! place them further apart... Now the potential (voltage) decreased, and the walls on the left and right side on your hands increased a little bit in potential.

Can't you really not rely on nature for her to give current? Hmm, what *if* voltage and amperage were ONE entity, but TWO different -external- distinctions makes them look so differential. Again, when your mind has some spare time, think about it so now and then.

About the wave front and being more easy to transport though each slice of crystals... see attached image as substitute idea... I'm sure you get the point then

Also the tick tack tick tack, will die out eventually, because energy (momentum in this example) is lost in deformations caused in the balls (and airflow and other things of course).

And I better give a bit of clarification on point 4 and 5...

After reading my post, It did read like the jump in voltage (not the smaller variations with heat applied) were caused by that heat wave... And this is -as far as i see it now- not the case... The big jump in voltage is -in my opinion- caused by three factors, being:

1) The electrodes come more close together, decreasing internal resistance.
2) The compression of mix, which makes -ion- transport much more easy... every void in the mix is an obstruction (resistance).
3) The surface area of the electrodes that is *touching* the mix, is considerable increased by that same applied pressure.... as said, the crystals which were already touching the electrode 'flatten out' somewhat, and also the voids between the electrode and the crystals are filled up (making contact). An contact increase of over 70% seems not a bad ballpark figure to me. (tough I *DO* need to verify this myself still).

These factors together are -in my opinion- the main reason for the jump in voltage. Any applied heat will show -smaller- variations in voltage.

A scope will also be quite a good tool to show this heat effect, as it can actually draw a representation of the heat wave in the 'roll' mode.

--
Ron.

[NextGen1967]

When I make the cell I have the magnesium ribbon already in the copper tube, its easier to pour the salt substitute around it than to insert the magnesium. Before the salt sub is added the two metals are not touching so we have infinite resistance. When i add the salt sub to the mix the resistance is lowered becuase the metals are touching the crystals. But resistance is still high and I only get 30mV. When I crush the copper tube the surface area never changes, the tube changes shape but still holds the same amount of copper it started with. The salt sub is still still touching the same amount of copper as it started out with. What has change is the distance of the two metals to each other. Since the two metals are closer they are not affected by distance so resistance can go down a little. Also one can not over look that when crystals are stressed they do give off electrons, but they're are not known for giving off electrons for a continuous amount of time. The voltage you see in the video is purely from squeezing the crystals, no water was added. I consider that pressure cell video a good video to show that nature will supply the voltage for you but you can't rely on her to give you current.

Besides pressure this cell is greatly affected by heat. I can lightly put my hand around the cell and the voltage will start to go up. So far from all my testing, if you stress the crystal it will start to pour out power. this stress must create a un-balance for the cell? Heat, IR, Pressure, are your stress creators and we're surrounded by them, give more stress and you get more power. Something about water that creates the stress too.

This latest pressure cell test was just a more advance study of what pressure does to a cell. Back when you were not posting John I did make some videos about me applying pressure to some of crystal cells, here is those videos.

Pressure Is what powers the Crystal cell - YouTube

Crystal Cell is given pressure by Clamp - YouTube

@IB and all,

Like jehdds, good observations made!

So, lets see in a pointed list:

1) You brought the electrodes more close together and thus decreased the internal resistance of the cell.
2) The mix -BETWEEN- the 2 electrodes did not really (well a bit, but this is a side effect) got less or more, it only got more compact.
3) The contact points area *did* actually increase a little bit, on both electrodes... Seeing from a macro size point of view, more salt substitute crystals are touching the electrodes (They get deformed a bit and flatten out where they touch the electrodes. Also, due to the tighter compression, mix that was not touching the electrode before, is now touching it (distance got less) and as such, the surface area of the electrodes -that is in contact with the mix- does increase in that way.
4) Constant(???) pressure does increase voltage of the cell (and amperage when used different mixes).
5) Heat -even body heat- reflects in voltage change of the cell (and also amperage change when using different mixes).

Like JB said, try putting together a 'flat' cell with two square electrodes, as it can exclude certain possibilities.

Contact and radiation heat, when touching an object, will cause a 'wave' front going through the object... E.G. the heat source firstly touches the outer side of a cell, and from there, the heat dissipates inwards (normally heat would dissipate outwards from an object of course, but remember, we apply -force- heat into the cell).

Piezo electric effect is known to be a pulse effect rather then a constant effect, however a very very slight pulsed change (deformation) in the order of nanometers, can give a -relative- high voltage already (think about a lighter with piezo ignition).

So, when the mix is very compact, the heat wave front can travel more easy through the cell, and by doing so, it *deforms* each 'slice' that the wave front is passing through. Also ambient heat will work its way into the cell, by the 'wave front' passing the cell, its energy is -in a like wise wave- deleted (heat taken away) by deforming the crystals on its way through the cell.

IB take an ice cube from the freezer and place it on the tube... You notice a rapid decline in voltage? (you could also 'smear' it out over the tube, to create a more regular cool down).

What I try to point out here is, the constant pressure (compressed outer electrode) is *converted* to a nano vibration NON constant pressure due to heat finding its way INTO the cell... remember, the cell is constantly 'cooling down' (a tiny amount) itself, due to the fact that the incoming heat loses its energy due to deformations made. Even nano sized vibrations are enough to cause voltage climbs.

Another thing:

A pen laser (or any type) and a Popsicle with some glue and a small piece of mirror could -visibly- show evidence of nano/micro vibrations... However, the table where the cell is resting on, should be *TOTALLY* free of vibrations (eg don't put a laptop on the table, or anything that can course vibrations).

Even more, piezo effect works *both* ways! When one applies voltage to a piezo sensitive crystal, it WILL deform (as long as the applied voltage is in a variation (pulsed) shape... Hmmm, penny comes to mind here ? Remember seeing a led glow BRIGHT the very first moment a LED touches the crystal cell?

I do have some copper pipe here, and salts (no salt substitutes however), and I have lasers and prisms... I can to the test, but for the moment, I am working on another point first. If no one will do the laser test, I can give it a try and report the outcome.

IB, I think you are greatly improving your analyzing skills this time!

I was laughing when you said no water no water no......no... no water

--
Ron.

[Freezer]

I've been using sodium silicate in the mixture for about a month (not cooking it, just adding to the hot mixture), and it seems to create more growth inside the cell. Perhaps this could cause the mixture to expand inside a tube and build up pressure over time. I have wondered if this is why hutchison uses artillery shells, but I am not sure.

Dry silicate cell

[John_Bedini]

Pressure with crystals

Ibpointless2,
If you take Rochelle salts would you get the same effect?, because you could test this easy.
If you could make a jig to hold the copper pipe where the magnesium ribbon could slide into a compression tube to compact your salts as I have made capacitors this way. A small hydraulic press would do wonders here. That is good that you have done this almost like an ambient pressure detector, get it to 2Ma and your home after that you just make it bigger. Excellent work.
John

[Aaron]

@Allen

Hi Allen,

Your post was copied to a new thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10471-cosmovoltaic-crystal-cell.html

Please keep your microwave related posts there.

It is 100% speculation on your part that John's cells are using microwaves. Just because some can operate on that principle doesn't automatically mean that his must be. Through the eyes of a carpenter, the whole world is a nail. Anyway, Lumeloid is more along the lines of your thinking. Please explore it in your thread.

And it is 100% obvious that you are NOT censored as all your posts are here and it was suggested that you can start a new thread on your ideas and post away. If having an opportunity to have a dedicated thread to your microwave ideas is your idea of censorship - I'm at a loss for words because that makes absolutely no sense.

Since you don't know what a vulture capitalist is, I'll define it for you. A vulture capitalist is a slur against venture capitalists who have the goal of funding ventures with the intent to take away the control from the inventors to get most of the profit while leaving the inventors with little to nothing. That is what a vulture capitalist is, period.

For months, I have seen John and Chuck go through countless variations of cells that cost a LOT of money. This money is spent on R & D, a lot of it, and they are here posting their results, showing what has worked and what hasn't worked. FREELY sharing without asking anyone for a penny in return just like many other builders/contributors here. You and many others are benefiting from their financial investment, which is quite contrary to claiming they're vulture capitalists. Obviously everyone is learning from everyone here and others are posting their results too - I'm just making the common sense case that your insults specifically towards them are not only unfounded, you can't even get the insult right.

This thread was setup for John to post his research on these topics. If your posts are unwelcome, then that means, don't post here anymore. This is not a public forum where you can just do what you want. This is a private forum and there are rules. Again, there is a thread dedicated to your microwave crystal cells - this is a great opportunity for you to build a discussion on that without sidetracking the entire flow of the thread.

[ibpointless2]

Ibpointless2,
Have you considered that when you first inserted the magnesium into the copper tube you had voltage not much but could that be because of the surface area. When you squeezed the copper down that surface area is more now as I have seen this before in some cells dry also. Can you do the experiment with flat plates and then put some kind of weight on them.
JB

When I make the cell I have the magnesium ribbon already in the copper tube, its easier to pour the salt substitute around it than to insert the magnesium. Before the salt sub is added the two metals are not touching so we have infinite resistance. When i add the salt sub to the mix the resistance is lowered becuase the metals are touching the crystals. But resistance is still high and I only get 30mV. When I crush the copper tube the surface area never changes, the tube changes shape but still holds the same amount of copper it started with. The salt sub is still still touching the same amount of copper as it started out with. What has change is the distance of the two metals to each other. Since the two metals are closer they are not affected by distance so resistance can go down a little. Also one can not over look that when crystals are stressed they do give off electrons, but they're are not known for giving off electrons for a continuous amount of time. The voltage you see in the video is purely from squeezing the crystals, no water was added. I consider that pressure cell video a good video to show that nature will supply the voltage for you but you can't rely on her to give you current.

Besides pressure this cell is greatly affected by heat. I can lightly put my hand around the cell and the voltage will start to go up. So far from all my testing, if you stress the crystal it will start to pour out power. this stress must create a un-balance for the cell? Heat, IR, Pressure, are your stress creators and we're surrounded by them, give more stress and you get more power. Something about water that creates the stress too.

This latest pressure cell test was just a more advance study of what pressure does to a cell. Back when you were not posting John I did make some videos about me applying pressure to some of crystal cells, here is those videos.

Pressure Is what powers the Crystal cell - YouTube

Crystal Cell is given pressure by Clamp - YouTube

[John_Bedini]

Pressure Cell

Ibpointless2,
Have you considered that when you first inserted the magnesium into the copper tube you had voltage not much but could that be because of the surface area. When you squeezed the copper down that surface area is more now as I have seen this before in some cells dry also. Can you do the experiment with flat plates and then put some kind of weight on them.
JB

[jehdds]

Jim,
I think Lidmotor has done that experiment and made a youtube of it.
John B

Thanks. Will look it up.
Jim

[John_Bedini]

IR

Jim,
I think Lidmotor has done that experiment and made a youtube of it.
John B