Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[myenergetic]

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/hardware/cal/lvps_info/engineering/elementmagn.pdf

[elias]

Rod,

Can you please post the exact detail about the setups which showed signs of overunity? I mean the setups that were running faster than when no coil is present. Those are the designs that we should explore thoroughly and model them out. You can increase the torque of your rotor by simply adding more shorted or loaded coils, so to speak.

@All
I think that we should document our tests on an independent thread so that browsing the data from the tests becomes easier, and it would help us model the effect to scale it up or increase it.

Thanks
Elias

[elias]

It is not simple until we find it.

I wish OU was that simple - 2 coils, 4 diodes and a couple caps is all he's using.

[Shadesz]

Important factors

If the lenz tricking process I proposed earlier turns out to be what is happening, the type of material is only one fifth of the equation. The second is the layout of the core and coil to the magnets. The third is the magnetic absorbing potential of the core (as determined by permeability and mass). The fourth is the size of the magnetic field coming from the rotor magnets. And last, the fifth is the speed of the magnets as they approach and pass the coil/core. If any one of these five are out of tolerance the lenz trick wont work. Make sure that you do not accidentally rule one out. IE: don't determine a core material wont work, when the mass of the core material might have been what was causing the trick to not work.

To dive deeper...
(note: this is expanding on the lenz trick theory)

Parameter one, type of core material
The type of core is important because you need a core with enough magnetic susceptibility to get the magnetic field from the rotor magnet to jump past the copper coil on approach. This allows the magnet to approach the coil without triggering lenz resistance. Mu-metal and some steels seem to work while ferrite doesn't. Knowing this we may be able to determine a permeability or susceptibility tolerance. Does anyone know of a good source for the magnetic susceptibility numbers for various materials?

Parameter two, coil/core design
This is also a critical part of a lenz tricking system because the design must encourage the gap jump upon approach. If the core is not in the correct position in relation to the coil, even if you have the correct core material, you will not get the field to jump the coil and thus will experience lenz drag. It is noted that the farther the core sticks out from the coil the easier it is to make the jump. However, this sacrifices the efficiency of the coil and thus the middle ground must be determined. Another thing that may help would be to decrease the distance that the core extrudes past the coil, but flatten the tip out more, so the core is shaped more like a bobbin than a bar. This may encourage a gap jump while allowing us to keep the coil more close to the magnet. This design idea needs testing.

Parameter three, magnetic absorbing potential of the core
There is probably a better word for this, but it represents how much magnetic field can be absorbed by the cor before it gets saturated. This potential determines the required speed of the rotor magnet. If the absorbing potential is small, the core will saturate quickly and there will be little time for the magnet to reach TDC. If the mass of the core is larger (thus the absorbing potential is increased) the core will take longer to hit saturation and thus allow the rotor magnet more time to reach tdc. Remember, this theory assumes that if the magnet is at or near TDC when the core saturates, the magnetic field will now return to the copper coil, and thus push against the rotor magnet, BUT the magnet will be on its way away form the coil, and thus will be 'pushed' into acceleration. (I think this is what Rod is experiencing!) Anyways, the bigger the mass of the core = the bigger the absorbing potential = the more time you have until the core saturates = the slower (less rpm) you need to still achieve the lenz trick.

Parameter four, the size of the magnetic field coming from the rotor magnets.
This is critical because it determines the distance that the magnet must travel from 'gap jump' to tdc. The larger the magnetic field, the larger the distance needed to travel (which means a faster rpm is required, or a larger absorbing potential in the core). The smaller the field, the less distance is required, thus less rpm and/or a smaller core required.

Parameter five, the speed of the magnet as it approaches/passes the coil.
This is the last variable in the lenz trick theory. The speed of the magnet is determined by RPM times circumference of the rotor. It requires a sweet spot that is determined by all of the other variables. The magnetic field size related to the coil/core design related to coil absorbing potential of core determine the time required to get from approach to tdc. By using this time and your rotor circumference you will be able to determine the required RPM to get lenz tricking to actually accelerate and propel your generator!

I start a math cram course at school this week (trying to skip three semesters of math in a week, wish me luck!) So I might not be to involved but I will be lurking around here reading that is for sure! You guys are doing great work! Keep it up!

[ewizard]

ramset did you not see the battery in the device? In another vid he did he has a battery running it and you can see the output voltage get lower over just a couple minutes. In the vid you posted he charges a cap apparently and while this thing looks very efficient I don't think it is overunity. I saw this earlier on OU where feinfo posted it but I don't think it's anything to get excited about. I wish OU was that simple - 2 coils, 4 diodes and a couple caps is all he's using.

[elias]

i wonder about using Iron power mixed with oil as the core (ferrofluid)

[Matthew Jones]

You could use silicone steel.

Electrical steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Matt

[elias]

Pipe cores

The first core I used that I got incredible acceleration was the core on the left:


As you can see it is a steel pipe with welding rods in it.
It suffered from so much eddy current that I abandoned using it, at first I did not realize that it has so much eddies.
So I cut the pipe from one side so that it "breaks" the loop, and decreases the eddy current. I suppose that the best would be concentric, sheets of steels.

[RAMSET]

From Free energyinfo At OU

100% Free energy generator !!! - YouTube
Posted without Comment!

Chet

[Matthew Jones]

Muller core = 60/40 mix black sand(magnetite)/epoxy. Its stated in the neogen video part 1 and also by his daughter Carmen in part 2!

The material was probably NOT epoxy and magnetite.

On the Following page it is describe as "Amorphous metal".
Muller Power.com ... Articles pertaining to Bill Muller's Motor/Generators

Later in a another section on that page, under the Hysteresis section, it described as "Muller's amorphous polycrystalline core material "
Muller Power.com ... Articles pertaining to Bill Muller's Motor/Generators

A little further down in this section it says....

INEXPENSIVE TO MANUFACTURE

On another page the material is described as made of magnetic sand. Around the 4th paragraph.
www.MullerPower.com ... Articles pertaining to Bill Muller's Motor/Generators


I have personally tested several compounds made with magnetic sand. Compared to iron filings magnetite by itself is not a good core material. Even aligned with magnetic field to provide structure, saturation is very hard to achieve. Without some level of saturation generating becomes near impossible.
I have mixed an iron magnetite mix with epoxy and this also showed lower than normal.

I have never had the chance to use furnace but what I suspect he was doing based on the name "Amorphous Metal" Was some how casting a glass compound with iron mixed in. IE similar to Leaded crystal. It may have had some amount of silica involved.
Casting the glass would allow for the iron ,silica and magnetite to mix at real close ratio's on the molecular level.
This would form a glass rock if you will, that could be ground down into a power them mixed with epoxy and "Extruded" into shapes.

I have found several article under Google scholar in which people have spent time looking at these mixes. I'll leave you to find them for yourselves.
But basically thats what the "The perfect core material" was looking like.
The description of the material were portraying the same characteristics as described by Muller and other people. They allowed hysteresis to become a non issue.

If you spend a little time looking at different Amorphous Metals and Polycrystalline compounds that are already common you should soon realize there is going to be a little more than just magnetic sand and epoxy involved.

Matt

[phoneboy]

A suggestion for a core material, have been wanting to try, don't know if anyone has materials for it though. Take iron powder and mix it with phosphoric acid, then dry it. This should make a non conducive layer on the particles. After that pack it in a tube or mix it with epoxy and form to shape.

[vidbid]

Video Removed - Found Mirror Video

That is a pretty incredible machine!! Look forward to seeing where this one goes

N8

For some reason, the video was removed.

Here's a mirror of it:

free energy device self running powering lightbulb - RomeroUK Muller Motor - Generator

[pmazz850]

Muller core = 60/40 mix black sand(magnetite)/epoxy. Its stated in the neogen video part 1 and also by his daughter Carmen in part 2!

[Mr.Whip]

[toranarod]

Iron core, how do we make this type




its become very apparent the core material is the most important factor