Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[quantumuppercut]

From Overchuss at OU:

Hi folks,

i've just achieved speed-up with shorted coil and also with a 'normal' (light bulb) load, at relativ low RPM (~ 1200, sorry no tacho ). And no Lenz, if no acceleration occurs !

That's absolutely cooool ! I've never seen this before.

My setup:
A rotor (12 cm dia.) with 7 NEOs, 20 mm (dia.) x 5 mm thick (N52), NN Arrangement.
6 Coils (1 Motor-Coil, 5 Pick-up Coils)

I've achieved this with a Steel (V2A ?) screw, 45 mm long, 10 mm dia.
3 mm Distance to the Rotor. The speed-up effect occurs with both low inductance, as well with high inductance.
The higher the inductance - the better the acceleration, though.

The Dimensions of my coil bobbins: 36 mm (dia.) x 11 mm (thick), with a 10 mm hole (for audio crossover applications).

(Test) Coil Inductance, Resistance: from 470 uH, 0.8 Ohm (0.6 mm Gauge) to 2.55 mH, 6.55 Ohm (0.3 mm Gauge).


The coil to rotor distance is ~ 25 mm to end of the screw (head).

The solution to achieve OU is (most likely): A Iron Laminat Core !!!

I think, we are very, very close to OU !

Gerald


P.S.
Sorry for my lousy english, this is not my native language.


Seems like more successful replications. Yes, I think if we can do it at standard walmart fan speed. We can just make those coils and sell them. lol We just need to pin down how it works. So far we can generate some parameters:

Inductance - the higher the better
Resistance - the lower the better
Core type - high mu?
current - higher the better (too high Lenz kick in again?)
position - adjusting needed

[Farmhand]

I saw a generator on YouTube that was claimed to be Lenz less. What he was doing was not moving the magnet or the coils. He was chopping the magnetic field with an impeller. What a good Idea I thought. Combine this with what we have already learned and I have a few new ideas as well.

You mean something similar to this Don Smith Device I mentioned in this post earlier in the thread ?

http://www.energeticforum.com/141441-post251.html

Seems like a good idea. Can't see why it wouldn't work. An interupter disc to interupt the flux paths or whatever, it should only require the energy to spin the interupter disc and it could be spun very fast without fear of flying to pieces because it would be a solid single piece.

Cheers

[toranarod]

I'd like to ask you something concerning your process of making the cores.
Did you also anneal the mu-metal after putting the mechanical pressure on it or are you calculating the losses in while still reaching an improved core operation with the mu-metal?
Thanks

No i did not anneal the mu metal. Its just as I described in the post above.
Chopped up a sheet of Mu metal into strips and glued them together to make a core the size that would replace the iron core. Very time consuming and messy
but at the end came out OK. I don't fancy making 9 cores like this.
Anyway NOW What do we do.
The more I work on Lenz law the more I understand it. Start to see other possibilities and ways to manipulate it. the thing with Lenz law it is very predictable. I want to lower the speed of the generator so it would work at any RPM imagine the applications for wind generators.
I am thinking about this all the time. If we are to release an OU device onto the market
We need to sneak it in the back door. How about a wind generator that is basically OU because it is lenzless bit is powered by the wind. A device that nobody knows is over unity. Anyway getting a bit ahead of my self back to the work at hand.
I saw a generator on YouTube that was claimed to be Lenz less. What he was doing was not moving the magnet or the coils. He was chopping the magnetic field with an impeller. What a good Idea I thought. Combine this with what we have already learned and I have a few new ideas as well.

[ewizard]

toranarod said: "No load No coil and no side magnets 4106 RPM
No load with coil and no side magnets 4099 RPM
Full load 190 m AMPS at 6 volts 4145 RPM very quick acceleration. "
Now I really like that

toranarod said: "Now here the bit that has got me in a spin. short the coil 4088 RPM I got no idea why." Well that's an oddity but the real important find is that a full load is at higher RPM and that is HUGE! Nice work!

[Xenomorph]

Just for something interesting I thought I would show this.
I hope this experiment move us forward because I put a bit of time onto this one.
I have cut up 150 laminates Of MU metal, submerged them in epoxy resin and pressed them together in the hydraulic press you see in the photo.

I'd like to ask you something concerning your process of making the cores.
Did you also anneal the mu-metal after putting the mechanical pressure on it or are you calculating the losses in while still reaching an improved core operation with the mu-metal?
Thanks

[Shadesz]

I'm sorry Sky,
I meat that the speed up and slow down would be the same for each rotor. Meaning the speed up as the rotor approaches the core should be the same as the slow down as it leaves the core. BUT this is just theory. Your hands on is a much better truth finder.
Very interesting. I really really want to build one of these but am trying to finish up a different project first.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi shadesz, you said:

I don't know if it will stop the effect. As, the speed up = slow down from a magnet would seam to be equal if the rotor (flywheel) is high or low in mass. 5 in 5 out (in a friction-less environment). The only difference would be less speed up on approach and an equal amount of less slow down on exit with a high mass rotor. In other words the bigger mass rotor would run more smoothly, but not necessarily better. That's how I understand it anyway.

I shared my observation of rotor mass to point out that it will help reduce the slow down or drag when using a core and many of them.
Not because I thought it will affect the effect we are looking at, just to help the performance of our setups.

The speed up - slow down from a magnet attracting a ferromagnetic core is NOT equal with differing rotor masses.

I just verified it on my setup, I have one steel bolt core and 6 - 1" diameter neo magnet rotor and gently with fingers revolved rotor past core/coil.
With only the main magnet rotor, the rotor rotation quickly comes to a stop and has very abrupt cogging motion.
Then I attached 4 more heavy rotors just as weight and the whole rotor assembly rotated much longer and smoother and you could see it naturally overshooting the core due to the mass storing more kinetic energy from the magnets more efficiently.
Bedini did this in some of his setups as well and so did Bill Muller with that very large diameter and heavy mass rotor.

I suggest folks try this experiment to see for yourself that added rotor mass will help us in these generator setups using ferromagnetic cores.
peace love light
tyson

[quantumuppercut]

No load No coil and no side magnets 4106 RPM
No load with coil and no side magnets 4099 RPM
Full load 190 m AMPS at 6 volts 4145 RPM very quick acceleration.
Now here the bit that has got me in a spin. short the coil 4088 RPM I got no idea why.

Wow, interesting. New clue.

[toranarod]

MU Metal Core

[Shadesz]

@Elias,

Thanks for sharing that. That is awesome to hear.

I agree with you. You have no idea the amazing things that have been happening in my life as of late. Some of the things I have learned and such I have to say feel like they are straight from on high. This is an extremely exciting time. I have a feeling that the next one to few months are going to be a wild ride. God has a purpose.

[elias]

An amazing synchronicity

I was out in the mountains last night, and to my surprise I found many laminated Iron cores lying on the floor, I think that I could pick up about 3kg of those. A really bizarre coincidence! I am going to test them out. Who can think that you can find laminated Iron cores out in the mountains!! I see divine hands in all of this. I take this as a good sign that we are on the right track.

[Shadesz]

Hi folks, nice setup toranarod, you are really going the distance with that experiment, I also hope it works like we hope.
So what do you folks think about the rotor mass/diameter idea, does anyone think this may be the sole reason that ferromagnetic cores slow down rotors with magnets, aside from any eddy current drag.
Reason I am thinking about this, is that with the proper mass or diameter, we should not have to worry about the amount of cores with coils as long as we can store the neo magnets kinetic attraction energy fully on entry to cores of coils.
Then a starter motor if needed can be included and when not needed, disengaged.
peace love light
tyson

I don't know if it will stop the effect. As, the speed up = slow down from a magnet would seam to be equal if the rotor (flywheel) is high or low in mass. 5 in 5 out (in a friction-less environment). The only difference would be less speed up on approach and an equal amount of less slow down on exit with a high mass rotor. In other words the bigger mass rotor would run more smoothly, but not necessarily better. That's how I understand it anyway.

Rotor radius is something to be considered. The bigger the radius the faster the magnets pass the coil per RPM. Thus less time for lenz to show up and get in the way?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, nice setup toranarod, you are really going the distance with that experiment, I also hope it works like we hope.
So what do you folks think about the rotor mass/diameter idea, does anyone think this may be the sole reason that ferromagnetic cores slow down rotors with magnets, aside from any eddy current drag.
Reason I am thinking about this, is that with the proper mass or diameter, we should not have to worry about the amount of cores with coils as long as we can store the neo magnets kinetic attraction energy fully on entry to cores of coils.
Then a starter motor if needed can be included and when not needed, disengaged.
peace love light
tyson

[Shadesz]

You're gonna conquer this beast rod!

ps check your pm when you get a chance

[toranarod]

mu metal under pressure

Just for something interesting I thought I would show this.
I hope this experiment move us forward because I put a bit of time onto this one.
I have cut up 150 laminates Of MU metal, submerged them in epoxy resin and pressed them together in the hydraulic press you see in the photo.