Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[blochwall]

Hi All,

this is getting very exciting!

I've been watching this whole forum for some time now, but unfortunately I'm not
experienced with electronics and that has stupidly stopped me from attempting to build
anything. So now I intend to change that.

I thought the best way I could help out right now, considering my lack of electronics
experience, is to start creating a list of stuff required for the build and corresponding sources in England as I'm currently sourcing it myself

Although this is not a comprehensive list as yet (far, far from it), I will keep editing this post until it is. I will mark all the links EN, if anyone would like to add their countries
source links then just send me a PM and i'd be happy to add them.

One of the main reasons i'm doing this is because I'm struggling to know what I need to buy for this build (I need to buy everything!). so if you guys know of things that need to be added, or where I can find some info (i'll also trawl through the OU thread aswell), especially all the electrical bits, please send me a PM.

Structure

Stator plates
2 x Acrylic sheets - 250mm x 250mm x 12mm
EN - 12mm Clear Perspex Cut to Size - Custom Made Acrylics & Woods

Rotor plate
1 x Tufnol IP/13 Sheet 300x300x10mm (better then PVC for Mechanical strength/high RPMs)
EN - Engineering Plastics, Nylon, Acetal, PTFE, Tufnol Rod & Sheet

Rotor Bearing
1 x Old western digital HDD - has a housed flange bearing. 25mm outside Diameter
EN - Ebay - Western Digital HDD Internal

Threaded Bar and Nuts
2 x M10 Threaded Bar Rod Studding - Pack of 3 - BZP - 200mm x 10mm. Allthreaded Mild Steal Bar and,
4 x M10 Wing Nuts - BZP - 10mm - 5 Pack M10 Wing Nuts - BZP


Coils

Coil Formers (bobbins)
18 x PVC Fabricated Formers - 26mm Diamiter, 10mm height 6mm core.
>>>Add Source<<<

Litz Wire
1 x 500g spool of 7 x 0.126mm Litz Wire = 573m. 18m needed for each coil. 18 coils x 18m = 324m
EN - Scientific Wire Company

Ferrite Coil Cores
18 x Choke w/6 hole ferrite core,3A 920ohm - 6mm x 10mm (not sure about this one?)
EN - Choke w/6 hole ferrite core,3A 920ohm

Or, if you want to try something in place of the ferrite cores which might be better
Magnetite Coil Cores
1 x 500g High performance epoxy resin kit
EN - High Performance Casting Epoxy

1 x 1kg Magnetite Powder(Fe3O4)
EN - 1kg Magnetite

Magnets

Neodymium Disk Magnets
18 x Neodymium Disk Magnets - 20mm x 10mm
EN - Neodymium Disk Magnets

Nylon Washers (for biasing magnet)
1 x 50 Nylon Washers 23 mm O/D X M6 X 1mm
Nylon Washers 23mm x 1mm

BW

[quantumuppercut]

Thanks rod,

No worry. I have to think about this some more too. 1 Henry is huge. I'm missing something.

QU

[synchro]

Litz.

Mopozco already has a Muller type dynamo self runner that he has wrapped with solid wire. Lidmotor and Skycollection are useing it, along with Whoopjump, who got tired of waiting for it. At worst it seems like it works about as well as solid wire, but any real distinct advantage at these low frequencies still remains to be demonstrated conclusively. It's probably not worth stalling your build up waiting for a delayed delivery on. Litz just dosen't appear to be a critical factor at this point!

[toranarod]

Here's a table of recomended Litz wire operating frequencies by thickness:


60 HZ - 1 KHZ 28 AWG

1 KHZ - 10 KHZ 30 AWG

10 KHZ - 20 KHZ 33 AWG

20 KHZ - 50 KHZ 36 AWG

50 KHZ - 100 KHZ 38 AWG

100 KHZ - 200 KHZ 40 AWG

200 KHZ - 350 KHZ 42 AWG

350 KHZ - 850 KHZ 44 AWG

850 KHZ - 1.4 MHZ 46 AWG

Here we see confirmation of my point that there is no reduced resistance per unit length for a given diameter:

"In reality, the real advantage of Litz wire is NOT reduced resistance per unit length for a given diameter. The advantage is less slope in resistance with frequency and reduced eddy current when the conductor is in a multi-layer coil or transformer. The individual strands are like laminations in a transformer core, and below a certain frequency they greatly reduce eddy currents by decreasing the "short circuit" path distance for magnetic flux induced currents that are not in the normal current flow direction."

There's no advantage at all to operating 32 Awg Litz wire below the 10 KHz range over solid wire of the same thickness and length.

On the subject of Litz Wire. It is a high frequency applications wire this is true
and these motors do not run or switch at theses frequency's.
If we Keep going back to excepted laws of physics while we are designing
and testing theses devices. Then what are we doing here in the first place
after all OU is impossible right?

I have been studying pulse motor for some many years.
you need to look outside the box.

It is already showing signs that Romero was on to soothing.

[toranarod]

Hello toranarod,

Very interesting result. Is there anyway you can provide the coil inductance and resistance? I'm very interested in this ratio (L/R). I believe to achieve OU, the factor L/R must be greater than 1 with standard unit ( if you boost inductance with core, hysteresis losses also increase I think).

QU

PS: you driving it with a FET which has a body diode, right? Thanks again.

Thank you for your questions
I don,t have an inductance meter I can only calculate Inductance.
I will run the math today.