Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[minoly]

The wave form diagram below represents the timing required for this exercise.
The green wave form represents the AC voltage being generated by one generator coil pair before the bridge rectifier. This is what the AC wave form looks like before we short or load the coils.
The yellow wave form represents the timing of the trigger pulse of exactly where the MOSFET transistor will be switched to engage a dead short across the green wave form, being the generator coil.





Now the wave form as the coils are shorted.

I'm glad other people are finding it also. this is much talked about but I haven't seen or read of many doing the experiment. It's nice to see the wave. thanks for posting that.



YouTube - ‪Romero Muller and Bolt's coil short speeds up under load‬‏
in the video I made of this, I only show shorting the coil outright. the rotor speeds up with an inductive load (light bulb) as well.
here are the items we've been adjusting so far that give results.

capacitor
bias magnets on coil
coil core - ferrite welding rods nails etc...
distance of coil to core. edit -> not coil to core - coil to rotor :-)
diodes on the FWBR

with each adjustment we are getting closer to regaining the full speed of the rotor.



Patrick

[Lidmotor]

Timing is everything

@Toranarod
Rod that is great news! It appears that timing of the events exactly is the key to this working or not. You have to time the short energy input pulse perfectly with the pickup coil energy extraction pulse to see the magic. Your scope shots really helped to illustrate that. Romero probably stumbled onto it after many trial and error attempts.
There are still many unanswered questions but this should be our focus right now. Understanding this timing event is super important.

Rod any help that you and the other electronics experts can give those of us with less knowledge and experience will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

Lidmotor

[woopy]

Whaooo !

Penno

thanks for answering, i will do a rig to test

I can't wait to your result with the MOT and the giant biasing magnets inside

very cool

bravo

Laurent

[penno64]

@Woopy

How are you?

Yes, as you describe.

I take a coil from MO fan. I wrapped in the same direction as origianl winding,
approx 200 turns of heavier guage wire.

I biased the origianl core with a ring magnet and washer.

I simply used a reed switch to short the original coil at TDC for max output
from heavier gauge.

The coil on the left is an original - the one on the right is added winding.

Now I am testing with MOT.



Penno

[woopy]

Hi Rod

very nice trace, impressive spikes. Do you use the circuit of your post 400 here above or a dedicated one ?

Do you get acceleration under load with those shorted coil

Thank's

@Penno

nice work

could you please some more elaborate on your wrapping coil.
If i understanf well you take a standard MO fan motor coil with the central core, and than you wrap some turns of copper wire around this originel coil,

Than i do not understand what you do exactly.

Do you short with a reed the originel coil and pickup an eventual generated voltage through the second wrapped coil, or is it the contrary or something else.
Thank's to take the time to precisely discribe your setup it is important.
And remember we are not in your head and we can not see your thoughts.

Manythank

@nueview

Thanks for your comment and video

Can you also elaborate by perhaps making a new video and showing better what you exactly do with your motor very interesting indeed

Thank's

And at all thanks for the great work

good luck at all

Laurent

[toranarod]

Hi Rod,

thanks for the good news and congratulations!

In the meantime a member at ou com posted his 3D simulation findings and it sounds in accord with RomeroUK hints on the need for precise fine tuning, a narrow optimal RPM window for the rotor and also limits on the amount of the useful loads.
Here is his post if you have not read it:
Muller Dynamo

Thanks, Gyula

Thats going to take a lot of understanding and maybe some people will never
find it.

if this is what RomeroUK discovered it may never be rediscovered with out an accident.

it does explain the DC to DC converter. I have never really been happy about why it was there but this explains it.

how do you know what direction to go in. How do you read the signs.

[toranarod]

timing

The wave form diagram below represents the timing required for this exercise.
The green wave form represents the AC voltage being generated by one generator coil pair before the bridge rectifier. This is what the AC wave form looks like before we short or load the coils.
The yellow wave form represents the timing of the trigger pulse of exactly where the MOSFET transistor will be switched to engage a dead short across the green wave form, being the generator coil.





Now the wave form as the coils are shorted.

[gyula]

Hi Rod,

thanks for the good news and congratulations!

In the meantime a member at ou com posted his 3D simulation findings and it sounds in accord with RomeroUK hints on the need for precise fine tuning, a narrow optimal RPM window for the rotor and also limits on the amount of the useful loads.
Here is his post if you have not read it:
Muller Dynamo

Thanks, Gyula

[elias]

hello every one

It works.
Now we start work ?

I was right about my early observations. At last we are moving in the right direction.

I was able to draw 32 m amps from one coil with out any load on the motor.

There was no change in RPM or drive coil load.

Congratulations! Were you using resistive loads, or just shorting the coils?

[toranarod]

It works

hello every one

It works.
Now we start work ?

I was right about my early observations. At last we are moving in the right direction.

I was able to draw 32 m amps from one coil with out any load on the motor.

There was no change in RPM or drive coil load.

just a small point the RPM needs to be right. full speed is not always the correct speed.

It was worth all that time building all that electronics.

I will post some important wave form diagrams. and give a brief explanation of how i see it .

[nueview]

geshbeddin on you tube

Hi Lidmotor

always a fun of your great videos

And i thank you very much to point out and test what is in my "out of the box " thinking.

I tested today some different power and some different config of the driving coil

And it seams to me that the better would be to have a separated motor to drive the rotor. So we can exactly see what is going on in the generative coils coupled to an input power.

So we can study the BOXING CURRENT ( or perhaps this bloody matching impedance ) that a lot of people are speaking of but surely have not very practical knowledge of what it is , and that included me of course.

Fantastic thread here and lets go on

Thanks

Laurent

i want to thank you for your suggestion to lidmotor and him for making the you tube it got me thinking about something i saw when working with induction motors and so i had to try it on the new motor project as there was something bothering me about it when a current is sent through the field coil it pulls the approprate magnet to the pole face but when a capacitor was added in paralell with the coil and a dc was applied to the coil it would resonate on the top of the steady DC and several magnetic poles would pass until the resonance rang down then it needed to have a reverse shot of current to run again the sound is different for the two different directions as well.

you can see the video at my you tube channel ( geshbeddin ) it is motor test 3 RDTPPM


YouTube - ‪geshbeddin's Channel‬‏

i should make a better video to post showing it both ways.
thanks to all of you here is a gift for all of you,
Martin

[gravityblock]

Romerouk

There is a post from Romerouk on OU forum.


V

Thanks blackchisel

Here's the link to Romerouk's. post on OU forum. I copied and pasted his post below for an easy reference here.

[blackchisel97]

Post from Romerouk on OU

There is a post from Romerouk on OU forum.


V

[toranarod]

@Rod

Can you test the drag on your coils on different speeds, when shorting the coils?
Also you can perform half bridge tests with diodes, and see on which half the drag is less. On the positive half or the negative half, that is the attracting half or the repulsing half. Is the drag more when the magnet approaches the coil or when it leaves the coil?

Good luck!
Elias

Hello elias

I have almost finished building the electronics.
the motor creates a lot of RF noise so earthing and shielding the system from false triggering was more of a problem than i have seen before.

I am going to answer all your questions very soon . I hope I see a move forward with this next round of tests

cheers

[elias]

@Rod

Can you test the drag on your coils on different speeds, when shorting the coils?
Also you can perform half bridge tests with diodes, and see on which half the drag is less. On the positive half or the negative half, that is the attracting half or the repulsing half. Is the drag more when the magnet approaches the coil or when it leaves the coil?

Good luck!
Elias