Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Rubberband]

Help

I've read this thread from front to back, their are some things I could use some help on before I start to replicate it. Perhaps I've missed some things, getting old. does anyone know the actual size of romeroUK's rotor, I've seen 250mm at the start then 200mm. will someone help with all the specs on coils, magnets, and size and actual thickness of rotor, I ask the latter because the pic in post#51 does not look right for 12mm as claimed in another post. The end of most adult pointing finger is almost 3/4" to an inch long, the rotor is almost as thick as the end of his finger in that pic. and it looks to me that his rotor is 20mm thick or a little better. Also, this recent change with reversing to top coil leads, Could this rotor actually be a monopole, I ask because in that pic his magnets are sticking above the rotor, does he have two 10mm thick magnets stuck together with a steel spacer between them...same poles on both sides of the rotor? I think there is a good chance that the timing of the motors being offset to the gen coils is a step I want to use as well, there is the point of torque generation that might lie in that offset as well as firing the motors after TDC of the coil and magnet..... any help to clarify on these would be appreciated....Wally

[Steve220]

Nice work

Really nice unit you have built.
I think the part where you shorted out the generator coil was really strange.
The rotor did not seem to slow down at all as I thought it would.
The magnets on the coils seem to help out a lot.
Thanks LS, Steve

[totoalas]

One way to check the field dispersion

Quote from Learningreen from Zero video 282

Very nice Zero as always. On the coils, I expected the large wind side to be near the rotor. One way to check the field dispersion would be to lay each coil , energized , under a piece of paper with iron filings on it. Now you should see the flux field pattern and then be able to compare the pattern to the coil with the best performance. An inexpensive test but one that has merit IMHO. Keep up the great work.
LeaningGreen

cheers

totoalas

[LaserSaber]

I just just reversed the wires on the top coil.

[ewizard]

Quick update.

Video: YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Muller generator replication part 2‬‏

Nice work again LS! When you said you reversed the coil did you just reverse the wires to the top coil or did you physically flip it over? There was a bit of contradictory discussion on another forum about which way works.

[LaserSaber]

Quick update.

Video: YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Muller generator replication part 2‬‏

[toranarod]

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post140836

He has it lower than that now as do we.

good idea.
I wonder though, a few have implied Romero's drive ckt could be being used to simultaneously help w/ coil shorting.....?
we are applying Bolt's amplified short to a two coil Bedini buckboost Kromrey effect, nice results. we are driving the wheel like Ren, using the SSG. any loss in rpm means lower ampdraw and better charging right
self running generator for on demand,
self running SSG for storage
will post more when we have more...

Patrick

YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Replication‬‏
cheers

[Steve220]

Noise

I think he said that it ran 3 1/2 hours by its self, but had to shut it off because the neighbors complained about the noise the device was making.
It was not going very fast, but did seem to make quite a bit of noise.

The noise to me would seem to be a clue. A lot of odd timed magnetic field switching going on, not a nice smooth generator sound, more of a jumble of things going on.
I think he did say it took a month of messing around with it to make it work as shown.
May be he found a combination of drive coil pulses and generator pickup coils at special times, distance, speed that suddenly started to work.
He did talk about how the distance from the rotor to the coils was important and was adjusted many many times to finally get best results.

I am starting to think that there is a internal magnetic connection between the drive coils, rotor magnets, generator coils at the proper speed, spacing, timing distance that can jumper out some or all of Lenz law.

Both the drive coils and generator coils were in a fixed position, but only the drive coils were pulsed at a time determined by the rotor position.
The timing of the drive coils in relation to the generator coils seems to be important.

Just the rotor spun up by an external drive motor and using generator coils only, I don't think will work.

[oldkiss111]

thumps up for your article, great post...

[Lidmotor]

A interrlated "community" of coils and magnets?

May be the secret is in the way the rotor is driven with the drive coils. Could the way the drive coils are set up "condition" the rotor magnets for the generator coils?
What I am saying is may be the pulse to the drive magnets of the rotor is timed so that when passing the generator coils at the right speed, time, distance the magnetic field of the rotor magnets are "conditioned" by the drive coils and now have to switch over from being a drive magnet to being a "generator" magnet.

May be at the right time and speed, during the switch from a drive magnet to a generator magnet, Lenz law gets a little confused and don't fully come into play.
The reason I say this is, why use a drive coil on the same rotor magnets used for the generator coils as shown in the videos?
Why not just attach a motor to the shaft to turn the rotor, but that is not how it was done. The drive coils were located in a special position in relation to the generator coils.
May be for a special reason too.

Steve ---I have thought allot about that and on my setup there IS a relationship berween what is happening with the driver and the generator parts. They interrelate like a "community" ---each one doing its job for the good of all. At least on my testing unit changing something on one effects all the others. Maybe that is why Romero said that this thing is very hard to tune right. There are so many variables.

Patrick---I wonder what the "Wild Beast Lenz" looks like? Does a Lenz have spots or stripes? What do you feed a wild Lenz? I know what it likes to eat----joules of energy. Lots and lots of joules.


Lidmotor

[Steve220]

Just thinking

May be the secret is in the way the rotor is driven with the drive coils. Could the way the drive coils are set up "condition" the rotor magnets for the generator coils?
What I am saying is may be the pulse to the drive magnets of the rotor is timed so that when passing the generator coils at the right speed, time, distance the magnetic field of the rotor magnets are "conditioned" by the drive coils and now have to switch over from being a drive magnet to being a "generator" magnet.

May be at the right time and speed, during the switch from a drive magnet to a generator magnet, Lenz law gets a little confused and don't fully come into play.
The reason I say this is, why use a drive coil on the same rotor magnets used for the generator coils as shown in the videos?
Why not just attach a motor to the shaft to turn the rotor, but that is not how it was done. The drive coils were located in a special position in relation to the generator coils.
May be for a special reason too.

[minoly]

@All
I tried the generator coil shorting idea on my testing setup and got some interesting results. Patrick-- I basically used your shorting circuit with the trigger coil and transistor but simplified it. It worked on my rig but it might not work on someone elses. I could not come to any real conclusions about this coil shorting idea with my test but it did improve the generator output performance. The way that I did it there was a slight increase in amp draw and a slowing of the rotor ---but the output gain seemed worth it. I liked what I saw.
Here is the video of the test:

YouTube - ‪Muller Dynamo-- generator coil shorting test.ASF‬‏

Cheers,

Lidmotor

That Lenz is a wild beast we gotta put that baby in a cage and tame it.
you got it right w/ your trigger observation, you need to be able to pinpoint that trigger, your trigger coil is huge and has a long "on" time. if you want to stick w/ the air coil, turn it on its side, that will help a bit. you can very the signal to the base Bedini style. love your builds Lid, they are quick and pretty at the same time :-)


anyone tried Rod's "cap short"?
been trying to use those diodes to create a coil short, it works across the AC side and the rotor spins up - so will an LED by the way, however, I can get no energy out of the pick up coil this way.


Patrick

[minoly]

Has anyone thought of using a full sequential bipolar circuit on the drive coils? They would need to be trifillar wound but most of the juice used would end up back in the primary dropping the input by around 80% Dadhav's window motor is running at between 200 and 500 MICRO amps on a 2.7v supercap. I see people trying to increase the generator output but dropping the drive input is just as important. If the output voltage is lower than the input voltage but the input current is very very low then a simple voltage step up on the output could work as long as the current is still above the input current. This is all speculation of course but something to think about.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-7.html#post140836

He has it lower than that now as do we.

good idea.
I wonder though, a few have implied Romero's drive ckt could be being used to simultaneously help w/ coil shorting.....?
we are applying Bolt's amplified short to a two coil Bedini buckboost Kromrey effect, nice results. we are driving the wheel like Ren, using the SSG. any loss in rpm means lower ampdraw and better charging right
self running generator for on demand,
self running SSG for storage
will post more when we have more...

Patrick

[Zooty]

Has anyone thought of using a full sequential bipolar circuit on the drive coils? They would need to be trifillar wound but most of the juice used would end up back in the primary dropping the input by around 80% Dadhav's window motor is running at between 200 and 500 MICRO amps on a 2.7v supercap. I see people trying to increase the generator output but dropping the drive input is just as important. If the output voltage is lower than the input voltage but the input current is very very low then a simple voltage step up on the output could work as long as the current is still above the input current. This is all speculation of course but something to think about.

[equityboost]

@Lid, I think it's still too soon to tell. Romero said it took him a month to tune it to get what he demonstrated. I don't think any replicator has yet spent that kind of time on tuning. As he said there are a lot of variables involved. Sure would help if the critical ones were understood.