Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Hi

Sorry Rod, in case you missed it, I reposted this, may you do this test? I actually did a test yesterday and observed that rotor drag reduced substantially when I connected one of my coils to the output of the generator coil instead of shorting it.

you got it
This will be the next thing I do. great to do something as a team
Thank you for the great direction.

[elias]

In case you missed it

Hi

Sorry Rod, in case you missed it, I reposted this, may you do this test? I actually did a test yesterday and observed that rotor drag reduced substantially when I connected one of my coils to the output of the generator coil instead of shorting it.

Have you tested shorting your coils with diodes? You can self drive your generator like this:

You should use the proper polarity for your driver coils, and also use diodes between the generator coil and driver coils to prevent backward current flow. See if you can get a much higher RPM. Of course this is in a case where your rotor is spinning clockwise. If you use larger magnets you can drive more coils.

Elias

[toranarod]

Hey, I think a coil like this one (notice the core face) would get an Adam's Effect on a Muller Motor

Erse Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor

I see your point and I agree with you on this one the dome type conical core head seem to be a move in the right direction and the core has good length.
And I like any factor pre wound core and coil. that's a big help for mass production.

[toranarod]

Yeah I am sorry Rod, I grabbed that picture because it was the first one I could find with a more aerial view so I could easily draw up my suggestion. If you ever hit a road block and are looking for something else to try, I would hope you would try it out on your beautifully updated motor.

@all,

On a side note: I mean no offense at all, but I think OverUnityGuide's time constant calculation idea to beat lenz is not accurate. In fact, I think he isn't even near the mark on that one. It is clear to me that the entire lenz delay based on the time constant idea doesn't even apply in a generator coil without a separate inductor in series (away from the rotor's influence). Plus, if you listen to the video particularly at 8:10, you will see he has no idea what that graph even represents, and how/when this "charge up" of back emf occurs. Seriously, that thinking is way off. In fact his wording shows he thinks the exact opposite of what that chart says about back emf timing.

OK that's all good for me. I am totally open to a new idea. we only want the truth. Please explain how you see it. We must explore all possibility

[Shadesz]

Hey, I think a coil like this one (notice the core face) would get an Adam's Effect on a Muller Motor

Erse Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor

[Shadesz]

Yeah I am sorry Rod, I grabbed that picture because it was the first one I could find with a more aerial view so I could easily draw up my suggestion. If you ever hit a road block and are looking for something else to try, I would hope you would try it out on your beautifully updated motor.

@all,

On a side note: I mean no offense at all, but I think OverUnityGuide's time constant calculation idea to beat lenz is not accurate. In fact, I think he isn't even near the mark on that one. It is clear to me that the entire lenz delay based on the time constant idea doesn't even apply in a generator coil without a separate inductor in series (away from the rotor's influence). Plus, if you listen to the video particularly at 8:10, you will see he has no idea what that graph even represents, and how/when this "charge up" of back emf occurs. Seriously, that thinking is way off. In fact his wording shows he thinks the exact opposite of what that chart says about back emf timing.

[toranarod]

Ok, my brake is almost over, but I figured I would throw this idea out there before I got back to work.

I don't like adding more work to an already busy builder but maybe someone can try this? I took an old picture of Rod's Adam's style generator and drew in how we could try the angled pull on it.

The red lines represent magnetic metal of some sort. Even just some scrap sheets or bolts you have laying around. Just make sure the core face sticks out past the metal so when the magnet gets to the core it will attract to it instead of the puller. You may need to consider eddy currents, but right now I don't think you will need to worry about it.

Hello Shadesz

Nice photo you found of some old work of mine.
Just about that design? When I calculated to the best of my understanding of what we have learned so far. The RPM needed to begin passing Lenz drag was up above 5000 RPM. The magnets in that motor where 30 mm x 25 mm round disc neos 6000 Gauss.
I was keen to use them because of there flux and output power but when I tried to spin them up to that speed they would not stay fixed to the rotor. Nothing I could manufacture would hold them in place. Save them for the ultimate project in the future.
So I decide to work with a more practical design. Lower RPM and a better ratio of magnet to core.
To my benefit this provided better results with out the very dangerous RPM.
High RPM is something we are going to need to deal with. Motor design will control
the RPM the generator will function at.

this is what it looks like now.

My motors spin the other direction

[Shadesz]

Still working... explaining this is harder then I thought it was going to be. Ironically, and somewhat hopefully, you guys will think "duh that's not that complicated" when you read it.

I was thinking though, about the new video, and others... maybe that isn't a good way to release an OU device.

What I mean is, perhaps the best way to release an open source free energy device to the world, is to let the world actually watch you discover it.

That way, they can see the work, even participate. They can see the hang ups, the solutions, and the breakthroughs you had as you have them. Then, when you finally get there and get that working unit, they will be more accepting and understanding, less demanding.

They experienced it with you! And in that way, are themselves part of the world changing event, and then become proponents and help spread it rather than doubtful critics.

Most of your initial shock and awe will be diverted too, as most people will know what you have been doing, and already know most of what they need to do it themselves. Plus the huge databank of what they need to do will already be published and they can get started right away. Of course you would be good to clean it up and clearly group the important information, but as you do this, you will not have the full blunt of pressures associated with such a discovery.

Anyways, like I said...
Perhaps the best way to release an open source free energy device to the world, is to let the world actually watch you discover it.

That is exactly what you are doing here in this thread guys. We will get there. Thank you for being a good enough team to convert me from a free energy critic into a participant. Lets keep going! You guys are great.



YAY! I figured it out! I finally got past the road block I have been on all day. Another couple hours and I can post this, get it out of my head, and move on to the good stuff!

[MonsieurM]

so 3 coils with one neutral...6 3 9



now about the long coils...think of them as vortex funnels and how the length of a funnel affects the vortex...

see the second picture, doesn't it remind you of Tesla's Set up

just an observation but When you build a Tesla Coil, depending on the overall size it will develop different level of energy ( a 1 foot Tesla coil wouldn't produce the same amount of power as a 10 feet Tesla Coil )....

[pmazz850]

A must see

In case you havent seen it:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/9411-neat-little-motor-generator.html

[Shadesz]

Ok, my brake is almost over, but I figured I would throw this idea out there before I got back to work.

I don't like adding more work to an already busy builder but maybe someone can try this? I took an old picture of Rod's Adam's style generator and drew in how we could try the angled pull on it.

The red lines represent magnetic metal of some sort. Even just some scrap sheets or bolts you have laying around. Just make sure the core face sticks out past the metal so when the magnet gets to the core it will attract to it instead of the puller. You may need to consider eddy currents, but right now I don't think you will need to worry about it.

[Shadesz]

What I find interesting is the decrease in power consumption just from the open coils alone (compared to no coils). I bet the angled pull theory would increase this unknown effect even more.

[Shadesz]

I needed a brake, so I ran some more numbers...

Hey just so everyone can see it, I analyzed Rod's numbers. Consider the control the measurements with no coils present. If we compare the second two data sets to that we find that we get...

-3.18% in power consumption and -0.36% in RPM with all coils present and open
-2.41% in power consumption and +0.64% in RPM with all coils present and 4 shorted

Man I hope that is enough... I guess it all depends on how much much load we can pull off the coils...

To take it a step farther, if you assume the ratio of RPM to Power Consumption is linear you can combine the % change in power to the % change in RPM, to get a more simple % change in power that is easier to understand...

all coils open = 3.18% decrease in power and .36% decrease in RPM = 2.82% less power consumption
4 coils shorted = 2.41% decrease in power consumption and .64% increase in RPM = 3.05% less power consumption

Rod...

[Shadesz]

Explaining the voltage drop on a DC inductor without calculus is a pain!

[elias]

Hey just so everyone can see it, I analyzed Rod's numbers. Consider the control the measurements with no coils present. If we compare the second two data sets to that we find that we get...

-3.18% in power consumption and -0.36% in RPM with all coils present and open
-2.41% in power consumption and +0.64% in RPM with all coils present and 4 shorted

Man I hope that is enough... I guess it all depends on how much much load we can pull off the coils...

That is a GREAT sign. I suspect that this RPM increase is due to the Adams style rotor that he has used! I am going to make my new generator like that.

This finally shows that the coils do add energy to the system for free.