Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

todays experiment

The test results for today

coil inductance 11 mH

Motor RPM 2300

frequency off main generator coils 280 Hz

wired in a capacitor to make an LC circuit from the generator coils and was able to boost output voltage to 160 volts

[gravityblock]

Correlated Magnetic Research (CMR)!

This is going to change everything you ever thought you knew about magnetism. Watch this video on "Multi-Level Magnetism" very carefully.

The video shows that the near-field repulsive force is stronger than the near-field attractive force, while the far-field attractive force is stronger than the far-field repulsive force. The reverse can be achieved also. In addition to the near and far fields, there is a shortest path. At the "zero point" there is an equal repel and attractive force. This can be seen where the magnets are repelling each other, while they are also attracting each other. Also, note how they were able to dynamically change the "zero point" in real time. As you can see, the repel force between the magnets is equal in strength to the attractive force between the magnets under the right conditions. If they're not equal in strength between the magnets, then it's because some of it's strength is elsewhere and it's field isn't totally concentrated between the magnets, but there's an equal net force still present.

Reference Links:

Video Gallery on Correlated Magnets.
Correlated Magnetics
Coding Theory.
Correlation Theory.

Spend two hours researching this site, and your view on magnetism will be much different. Some of the links above has a "next" and "previous" button to navigate through the presentation. The correlated magnets can also be done with two arrays or with multiple electromagnets.

GB

[elias]

Hi folks, hi elias, thanks for making those tests.
I wonder If this only applies to permanent magnet to permanent magnet interactions.
Reason I say this is because with my dual rotor air coil pulse motor, it seemed to have pretty much the same torque and speed when in repulsion or attraction.

Maybe in a coil pulse motor, it could be because the permanent magnet field permeates the coil, even in repulsion and so gives a different result from a strictly permanent magnet interaction, which does not allow such permeating of the fields. Just a few thoughts and my observations.
peace love light
tyson

I can not elaborate on that. Maybe to see any noticeable effect you need to use cores in you coils, and of course that would inject a sticking problem, which is eliminated by the muller design. Any way I don't know more than I have observed, that is what experimentation is all about. I predicted that the Attraction power should be about 1.618 times the repulsion power, and guess what, the calculator gravityblock posted gives pull and push forces which are approximately related to each other by the Golden Mean (1.618). You can see it on this website by yourself:

Pull And Push Between 2 Rect Magnets

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, hi elias, thanks for making those tests.
I wonder If this only applies to permanent magnet to permanent magnet interactions.
Reason I say this is because with my dual rotor air coil pulse motor, it seemed to have pretty much the same torque and speed when in repulsion or attraction.

Maybe in a coil pulse motor, it could be because the permanent magnet field permeates the coil, even in repulsion and so gives a different result from a strictly permanent magnet interaction, which does not allow such permeating of the fields. Just a few thoughts and my observations.
peace love light
tyson

[elias]

Magnet Repulsion vs Attraction 2

Hi

YouTube - ‪Attraction vs Repulsion in Magnetic Fields 2‬‏

I redone the experiment, so that, it addresses some issues:

1. The nuts and bolts were removed to remove their effect.
2. The plexiglass is perfectly cut by laser, so there is no noticeable error in the sizes of both arms, they are equal in size.
3. It will be allowed so that the attracting magnet, overcome the power of repulsion on the other side all by itself, so that it can be seen that it can overcome the power of repulsion at almost any distance. So it will show that the net force of magnets approaching each other in attraction mode is much stronger than in repulsion mode.

My theory is that creation has a natural tendency to attract into oneness and integration, rather than repulse into manyness, and segregation. Segregation has to be much less than integration to make creation operate as it should. Integration is stability and segregation is instability. Male and female is the reflection of divergence and convergence, segregation and integration.

This seems to be what the implosion vs explosion technology is all about.
The Muller machine is an implosive machine rather than an explosive one, as most of our machinery are. It has cleverly used attraction to its benefit, rather than making it cog the system.

Elias

[blackchisel97]

@toranarod It looks good (the wave and the setup)
I did cast my cores tonight but I should have more catalyst added to the mix It is still tacky after few hours. I hope it will finally dry. I mixed magnetite with polyester resin 70/30. I'm not too happy with my rotor. It seems that polypropylene board is not perfectly straight and it wobbles a bit. I need to figure this out or get different material.
I guess everyone is busy building since this thread got really quiet today


Vtech

[toranarod]

This is nice report Rod
I'm a bit confused What did you use as a core, ferrite or magnetite? I was planning to make cores tomorrow with magnetite/resin. Should I make them slightly longer so they can extend the core tube?
I'm still waiting for some supplies. Meanwhile fitted bobbins to check for alignment between upper and lower deck. Still need to fiddle with rotor a bit to get balanced. I have no litz or anything thin enough to make my own. Thinnest I have is #26. Since I'm facing a prospect of winding some coils soon (I hope) I decided to make this task less tedious and built a simple winder with whatever I could find around. Calculator is hooked up to the micro switch and works as a counter. I want to make some sort of brake pad which would allow to control the tension of wire by tightening feeding spool.
I'll have more coils to wind beside this replication and I'm getting lazy

[IMG][/IMG]


Vtech

Hello blackchisel97

I made my cores from ferrite, it was all I could get at short notice.
great coil winding machine. It is a must have when you need to wind 18 coils.

I have been working with my motor every day

todays results
Here are some of the specs.

Output Voltage. from generator coils 75 volts
RPM 2300
Pulse per trigger event 2
Duty Cycle 476 uSec
PWM 527 uSec

see wave form diagram

[blackchisel97]

The magnets fitted to the cores.
Current specifications

The motor has one drive coil as seen in photo below.
8 generator coils paired. All fitted top and bottom with 10 x 10 neo magnets.
Each pair outputs 50 volts .at 1500 RPM
Drive coil consumes 60 mill amps on 24 volt supply on a 1.2 mill sec drive pulse per magnet switch time.

This is a considerable improvement from when we first started without magnets in cores. Each pair outputs 28 volts .at 1000 RPM
Drive coil consumes 80 mill amps on 24 volt supply on a 2 mill sec drive pulse

This is nice report Rod
I'm a bit confused What did you use as a core, ferrite or magnetite? I was planning to make cores tomorrow with magnetite/resin. Should I make them slightly longer so they can extend the core tube?
I'm still waiting for some supplies. Meanwhile fitted bobbins to check for alignment between upper and lower deck. Still need to fiddle with rotor a bit to get balanced. I have no litz or anything thin enough to make my own. Thinnest I have is #26. Since I'm facing a prospect of winding some coils soon (I hope) I decided to make this task less tedious and built a simple winder with whatever I could find around. Calculator is hooked up to the micro switch and works as a counter. I want to make some sort of brake pad which would allow to control the tension of wire by tightening feeding spool.
I'll have more coils to wind beside this replication and I'm getting lazy

[IMG][/IMG]


Vtech

[toranarod]

Toranarod reprorts a 70% gain in efficiency with the help of his core magnets and washers. Now follow me on this: If coil core magnts increase gain is there possible increased gain from increased magnet strength? The ansewer is yes.

Imagine a coil core with a snug fitting diametricly magnatized neo tube inside, mounted over a N/S magnet rotor. When the north pole passes under the core magnet, the rotor magnet bends the field from the attracting side of the core magnet, by pulling it down through the wire coil wraps to generate current. When it passes, the field retracts back through the wraps and generates another current. The same goes for the opposite rotor pole magnet and the other field from the diametric neo coil core . The core fields see saw this way, back and forth through the copper wire wraps, and REVERSE Lenz effect at the same time by propelling the rotor with a Hatem effect, while remaining neutral along the sheer plane. This approach increases output by double and triple amounts not just fractionaly. This charging effect involves no vibration.

The magnets fitted to the cores.
Current specifications

The motor has one drive coil as seen in photo below.
8 generator coils paired. All fitted top and bottom with 10 x 10 neo magnets.
Each pair outputs 50 volts .at 1500 RPM
Drive coil consumes 60 mill amps on 24 volt supply on a 1.2 mill sec drive pulse per magnet switch time.

This is a considerable improvement from when we first started without magnets in cores. Each pair outputs 28 volts .at 1000 RPM
Drive coil consumes 80 mill amps on 24 volt supply on a 2 mill sec drive pulse

[totoalas]

Ferrite core effect on coils

Video by Itsu
Been exploring other alternatives to ferrite core
On hand for testing
hard steel rod
Egg magnets with N S on the side
Fe2So4(Moss killer) plus baking soda

Also will try to put in angle the Neogen coils 1 mm and 2.3 mm mag wire and see what happens using Hd magnets on rotor 2 drive coils in series by Lidmotor's JT circuit and one pair pick up coils

Happy experimenting guys

totoalas
Hi all,
Quote from Itsu

i just put together a small rig (don't laugh , its the principle that counts) to do some measurements on the coils of the muller/romero MG.
I have a rotor (cd) with 8 small neo's facing north up triggered by a hall (SS411A).
Both driver coils are made of the "brother sewing bobbins" (11.3mm high) with ferrite core (6mm od, 15mm long) from a PC PS.
Wire is single stranded AWG24 (0.5mm) about 220 turns which gives me 1.27mH/1.7Ohm

RPM is about 1500, and fiddling with magnets on top of the ferrite core gives only negative results.
When using a ferrite bar on top of the drive coil cores, gives me more RPM, and less input current.

I made another coil, now i removed the bobbin flanges, and glued them directly on the 15mm long ferrite core, giving me more room for winding, and also the first windings are more closer to the core.
It has the same awg24, and i was able to put on 300 turns.
This resulted into 2.81mH/2.5Ohm.

When i use this coil as a generator coil (by hand for now), and putting again the ferrite bar on top of it, the generated voltage increases.

So what i want to point out is that not only experimenting with magnets will get results, but you might also try to play with extra ferrite onto the cores.
It could be that this is caused by my small magnets compared to the coils, so anyone scaling up the coils could give it a try.

A short video of the setup and tests can be found here: YouTube - ‪20110526211848.mpg‬‏


Regards Itsu
YouTube - ‪20110526211848.mpg‬‏

[synchro]

Diametric magnet output coil cores.

Toranarod reprorts a 70% gain in efficiency with the help of his core magnets and washers. Now follow me on this: If coil core magnts increase gain is there possible increased gain from increased magnet strength? The ansewer is yes.

Imagine a coil core with a snug fitting diametricly magnatized neo tube inside, mounted over a N/S magnet rotor. When the north pole passes under the core magnet, the rotor magnet bends the field from the attracting side of the core magnet, by pulling it down through the wire coil wraps to generate current. When it passes, the field retracts back through the wraps and generates another current. The same goes for the opposite rotor pole magnet and the other field from the diametric neo coil core . The core fields see saw this way, back and forth through the copper wire wraps, and REVERSE Lenz effect at the same time by propelling the rotor with a Hatem effect, while remaining neutral along the sheer plane. This approach increases output by double and triple amounts not just fractionaly. This charging effect involves no vibration.

[elias]

WE are on the look out for any one that threatens the Muller replicators now, we (2000+ subscribers) will expose them, there are too many of us now.
Just a friendly reminder of what you dont know is going on in the background, we learn FAST. How about you? Carry on Guys. Fair warning.

On Behalf of Freedom

Ash

Well said, this is the end game, and light is prevailing on this planet, so it is better for you to surrender dark ones, resistance is futile, embrace the light.

[ren]

Hi All,

Late to the table I know but been busy. Had a chance to test my rig out today, its a little unorthodox but exhibits some of the same effects already noted with magnet biasing and such.

The "motor" is a 3 coil 18 strand Bedini SG, running on only 10 strands at the moment. Rotor is 3 pole and built inside a stainless drum.


Generator is an axial arrangement, of same diameter as SG rotor give or take. Generator has seven 22mm x 10mm Neo Discs, all north. I have two coils at the moment. But they arent the same. And the inside of my generator rotor needs some more machining for proper clearance, so one coil sits higher than the other. The "good" coil is one I wound bifilar on 35mm diameter form, 40mm long. Core is hollow tube ferrite and can be extracted and adjusted at will.

There are other various imperfections and alterations to suit but basically it boils down to this.

SG drives the rotor and charges its secondary battery or capacitor/s. Draws 500-1000ma from a DC source. Circuit can be run on higher voltages at same current draw but for now its 12v say 600ma, for 2000 rpm no load on gen coils, no core.

Generator coils put about 10v out in parallel, 20v in series, for some very interesting waveforms. I placed the coils as below in the picture, 180 degrees out of phase in series. I get a perfect sine wave and the 3 watt led I have connected shines at probably 70% brightness, measuring 10.5v over its terminals. An AC cap in series is interesting too.

So with being able to play around with the cores and their proximity on the fly I realized that you still get a fair amount of flux on your air cores. And they load the rotor less too. So many different ways you could go.

Magnets on my one ferrite core raise the output voltage reads higher under load as well. Ive got to get a new current meter, I only have one and that is monitoring the SG input, which by the way is quite happy to sit stable as the rotor is loaded.

Loading the coils with a bridge and caps/batteries and loads produces the various decreases in rotor speed, the SG doesnt draw more, Ive lost up to 600rpm at the heaviest load but it eventually settles. You can start it up with the one core in there at the moment and it will get up to speed. Or you can start it with no drag and load it down.

I will make a video soon, need to clean up a few things.

regards

[Slider2732]

If you look at the later pages of the Slayer exciter builds in the Joule Thiefs huge thread, you'll see some great micro coil work by Slayer007, Jonnydavro and Lidmotor (probably more folks).
At a certain lower size of coil diameter, a ferrite core is needed to get the circuit running.
If the ferrite rod is part way exposed, the coil runs

My own towers seem to be just on that edge of running without a core. They are normally wound on the smallest size generic pill bottles from Walgreens/Walmart. It strikes me, that the coils for the replication machines here are of somewhat similar diameter dimensions and that a core could enhance their outputs.
i would expect...that coils would benefit from finding the correct points of core placement, partly hanging out of the end of the coils.
Does that produce the points within the above diagram ? that's to be discovered.

Thanks Ashtweth for your very poignant reminder.
Not everyone who is building one is posting about it, not every person is building just one, not everybody will disclose their every move..and some people will be sending completed units out to others without a word in these threads.
Every parcel at every post office could be inspected, TSA clowns be installed at roadside feel up points. But, some inventive builders will still personally drive their functional completed devices to other people down back roads in the middle of the night !

[Joit]

Maybe he is focusing the magnetic energy to the point shown in the Photo?

I would not say focus, but let it partial through. I did try that too, and it was actually not more, as when you take a smaller Magnet, plus, you have a bit more Magnetfield at one Side with the Washer at the Coil. But i think mainly, it is the adjusting from the Coil. Don Smith mentioned something similar, and Tesla also. That part can be found at the My Smith Kapandze build.
The Patent from Tesla was like this, that he moved a Core inside the Coil, to adjust it.
And now, testing my first cores, i found something similar, When i take a Air Coil, and move a Core inside. the highest Value what the Coil give is not there, when the Core is complete inside, but at 3/4 or half.

Now i really have to think about, to use Air Coils, where i can move a Core in and out, or even a screw would work, because from what i have tried, they are not better or less. A Screw is even easy to adjust.
But mainly i think it is adjusting the Coil over the Core/Magnetic Field, may Clanzers Link is close to a Explanation, because i cant say how i should name it all.
The Balance from a Created Field at the Coil, when it deplets and gets filled, and that it is faster, when it is balanced? Well, i tried it ..

Afterwards.. you may take the Magnet and Washer off, and stick them together, take another Magnet and go over the Hole from the Washer, and see, if you think it does focus the Power there or only let go through. That is what i did, and i could not feel any stronger field at a certain point around there.