Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[ren]

Ive just finished my rotor, its different specs to the Romero one, Im going to use a SG to spin it, just going to concentrate on the generator side of things at first.

Ive had to put a fully blown replication on hold for a month or so, my machinist is just getting too busy to help so Ive decided to just get my own lathe. Then there are no restrictions for me, I can machine to my hearts delight Will be able to help you out in the future too Rod, once I get some basic skills up on it. The one I want will turn up to 400mm diameter and 400mm long. Mill combo as well.

Cheers

[toranarod]

good work Rod, I feel your pain, Im winding my first coil now on a wooden former, by hand. Gotta rig up the drill and turn counter like you have

Keep it up.

Hello Ren
its the one job thats I have been putting off. when you think about 18 OMG lol

I have two more to do

HAs any body out there got a working replication?

[ren]

good work Rod, I feel your pain, Im winding my first coil now on a wooden former, by hand. Gotta rig up the drill and turn counter like you have

Keep it up.

[toranarod]

the longest job of all has been winding the coils
repeated work i find tedious.

but its going to worth it.

[minoly]

What happens when you push or pull on the "invisible" N or S

Patrick

[Slider2732]

In my own limited experiences so far, the effect is very noticeable.
It would seem that in repulsion, or pushing away mode, a pulse motor can desulphate a battery but won't go anywhere near the run times of attraction.
The magnetic lines that you can envisage within a magnet will either bunch or lengthen. If they bunch up in repulsion mode, you'll see the magnet become far less than permanent in terms of available force. If the lines are stretched they are still running in the same direction that they always have.
The magnet can be thought of like a piece of copper wire..if you pull on the wire then not much will happen, but if you knock the wire away suddenly then over repeated knocks the wire can kink and bend.

[Zooty]

Hi

I made a quick video to demonstrate that attraction is noticeably stronger than repulsion, so that repulsion is totally eliminated by the power of attraction:
YouTube - ‪Attraction vs Repulsion in Magnetic Fields‬‏

Elias

Very interesting. Never knew that. The thing is, does this effect work between an electromagnet and a permanent magnet?

[toranarod]

Hi

I made a quick video to demonstrate that attraction is noticeably stronger than repulsion, so that repulsion is totally eliminated by the power of attraction:
YouTube - ‪Attraction vs Repulsion in Magnetic Fields‬‏

Elias

thats very interesting

Thanks for the demo

[elias]

Power of Attraction vs Repulsion

Hi

I made a quick video to demonstrate that attraction is noticeably stronger than repulsion, so that repulsion is totally eliminated by the power of attraction:
YouTube - ‪Attraction vs Repulsion in Magnetic Fields‬‏

Elias

[Slider2732]

@ minoly - sorry for not getting back sooner, we had a lightning strike here and my PC blew up.
The monitor looked like a crash screen on a ZX Spectrum !
I was half tempted to put a kite on a string during the storm and then hook it to a Tesla tower and FWBR lol. Reverse psychology doesn't work on lightning I guess.

Transistors, yes, many of them you might be glad to know, much being similar to the micro Tesla tower experiments in fact. A strong performer being the well known MPSA06, weaker shorter runs being say a C945.
Here's a list of those tried, all NPN, because I read that PNP's tend to keep themselves amp hungry even during non switching.
Test conditions - White Crow as seen in bulb lighting vid, 4 magnets on rotor, 4.5V from wall adapter to charge a 1F supercap for 2 mins. Repeated 3 times with each and average time til rotor stall taken.

Best to worst
2N4401 - EBC - 17 mins (fluke ?!) 8:40 other two runs
MPSA06 - EBC - 8:20
MPSA44 - EBC - 7:20 (rapid deceleration, long final rotations)
D667 - ECB - 7:07
30612 - EBC - 5:15
30611 - EBC - 4:51 (full speed was much slower than average)
C945 - ECB - 4:36
C1854 - ECB - 4:11
C2785 - ECB - 3:58 (massive low speed run to end)
C1815 - ECB - 3:34 (rapid slow down)
MPSA13 - non runner
KSM13 - non runner

There may be something to the big differences noted, when scaling up for Romero/Muller machines.

[quantumuppercut]

This why I use a multi trigger pulse.


YouTube - ‪Lec 20 | MIT 8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002‬‏

this is useful information.

Hi Rod,

Thanks for the vid. lecture. The part I liked most is the integration of inductor discharge current. lol

Hey, I heard you pulse your coil to about 63% or 70%. That's about 1 time constant? That's on the 600 turns 7 Ohm coil? What's your pulse duration for to achieve the 1 time constant? Sorry, I'm trying to see if I can estimate the coil inductance. Have you consider pulsing it at lower time constant? I know you have to adjust your sensor to get the pulse energy transfer efficiently but I think you said 1500 rpm max. Thanks.

QU

[toranarod]

two coils

The one thing I have noticed
very few people are posting conformation data

this is an exact replica of the coil turns and wire as RomeroUK posted.

[Farmhand]

The bench knows all - look to the bench

so Lidmotor is only sending the genny coil energy back to the primary not spikey or as some would call it BEMF from the primary driving ckt. that makes sense now. eventually though, doesn't Romero send all of it to the primary side?

People must be experimenting w/ different things for now, because I do see a few different schematics floating around. the main PDF that Romero seemed to be ok w/ shows the load/bulb is on the other side of the dc 2 dc so the genny coils should not see the load unless I'm missing something else the primary driving coils will see the load/bulb.

Farmhand, that's exactly how I see it as well. I was "reading" too much into it.

back to it...

Patrick

PS I'm liking those halls.

Experiment bench has much more knowledge than me that's why I keep going back to him. If Romero put the bemf spike's from the drive coils somewhere it would need to be delivered to a higher voltage than the source or my experiments tell me it would cause problems.

I don't think the bemf could be delivered or directed to the output of the gen coils directly, I might be wrong.

If the drive coils have a second (bemf pick up) winding things get easier, I think. That can then be put though a FWBR and paralleled with the gen coil FWBR's.
Maybe.

I just have these thing's rattling around in my skull space so I thought I would share.

Awsome work guys

P.S. Here's a pic of a rough sketch of what I meant above. Maybe that will reduce the drive, I'm not sure.

http://wv3rsa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pTCbONlTyKSjvpEt9AW-wU5kT4SwKxnJZchCINlJSQetmOdR6ZfF1GG5cXp-LwHFTSXi8Dj4RIOvXEwJRH2DKcwp-DNQTt0_j/BEMF%20return%20001.JPG?psid=1

[minoly]

The bench knows all - look to the bench

so Lidmotor is only sending the genny coil energy back to the primary not spikey or as some would call it BEMF from the primary driving ckt. that makes sense now. eventually though, doesn't Romero send all of it to the primary side?

People must be experimenting w/ different things for now, because I do see a few different schematics floating around. the main PDF that Romero seemed to be ok w/ shows the load/bulb is on the other side of the dc 2 dc so the genny coils should not see the load unless I'm missing something else the primary driving coils will see the load/bulb.

Farmhand, that's exactly how I see it as well. I was "reading" too much into it.

back to it...

Patrick

PS I'm liking those halls.

[toranarod]

This why I use a multi trigger pulse.



L/R Time Constant

YouTube - ‪Lec 20 | MIT 8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002‬‏

this is useful information.