Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Zooty]

Zooty; Why do you think you are wrong?

this is the only theory that makes any sense

I thought i was probably wrong because i had seen so many other explanations for it on here and all seemed a lot more technical than mine. When it comes to L/R stuff, i'm not that clued up and this is where i probably failed when i tried it a few years ago. In hind sight, my RPM was too low for starters. My iron core was too big and i probably had too much resistance on the coil.

Rod, have you tried a transformer from an old AC-DC adapter to step up your gen coil voltage? Just hook up the low side to your coil and see what you get on the high side.

[Altair]

Excellent find, Itsu !

The Adams motor HAD to have capacitance matched to the coils because there was mention at many places in the documentation that it ran in resonance.
But none of the schematics showed a capacitor.

Now thanks to you, this test report confirms it.

[Itsu]

Adams

Qvision,

your link points to a compilation of info by "Hoptoads" about the "Adams motor"
which is similar, but also different to the muller motor.

I can agree with this statement on page 8 about the bifilar drive coil:
"So you've already seen a principle at work in pulsing which "bends" Lenz's Law. Try the bi-filar arrangement in Fig 19 yourself!"

It works, as that my input current went down about 40% keeping the same RPM.

However, the statements on page 11 i can not confirm.
The nice phase angle changes can not be created by me whatever load i put on.
To my calculations on reactance in the coils, the xC (capacitive reactance) is NOT negligable on the slow (200Hz = 1500 RPM)
as being told on that pag. 11 and makes the coils highly capacitive.

By the way, when researching on the Adams motor info in http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Adams.rar , i found references
of this motor being driven in parallel resonance (200uF)
No diagram however is showing this, so i guess that is one of the missing info on the Adams motor.
See this info in the "Adams Manuel Addendum.pdf" in the above rar file:

================================================== ==========================
Coil Config, Used to Drive Motor: COIL 6B IH SERIES COIL 7B
Generator Voltage File VOPR01.DAT ..... Rotor Radius -------- 5.750 In.
Force Function File LBPAOl.DAT ........ Rotor-Stator GaP ---- 0.375 In.
Has Zero-Current Force? YES ........... Angle ON ------------ 55.000 deg.
Mode of Operation ATTRACTION .......... Angle OFF ----------- 80.000 Deg.
Rotation Direction CLOCKWISE .......... Duty Cycle ---------- 0.278.
Windage Drag at 100RPH 0.002 FtLb ..... Reporting Interv for Cal 1.000 Deg
Coil Inductance ------- 13.530 MHn .... Integrate Steps/Rep Intv 100
Capacitance ----------- 2OO.OOO Ufd ... Total Loops Calculated 6
Coil Resistance ------- 1.300 Ohm ..... Intervals to sw Close 55
Capacitor Resistance -- 0.200 Ohm ..... Interyals to Sw Open 80
Battery Resistance----- 0.800 Ohm ..... Resonant FrequencY---- 96.751 Hz
BatterY Voltage-------- 12.900 Vlt. ... Resonant Freq equvalent 1451.268 RPH
================================================== ==========================


When taking the coil inductance of 13.53 mH and a capacitor of 200 uF, then indeed we have resonance at 96Hz
when using this calcutor: L/C Resonance Calculator


Regards Itsu

[quantumuppercut]

The first thing I would like to question is of all the talk, and evidence, of high RPM's overcoming lens law. So far, everyone has referred to the determining variable as RPM's, but to me that seems kind of inaccurate. Wouldn't the actual factor be the speed at which the magnet travels past the coil and/or coil's core?

This is an important distinction because units with varying rotor sizes will have different magnet speeds at the same RPM.

Welcome to the hub Shadesz

I also think along your lines. It's initially hard to identify what is the root cause because we have so many variables, but observations made by experimenters can help. One observation is high coil current. There are many factors contribute to high coil current like resistance, change in magnetic flux, core, magnet..etc. Luckily, the coil and magnet are not changing in the experiment leaving the rotor speed as the variable. With your reasoning, I think we can made changes to coil/core/magnet size, strength, orientation and that could changes result also. Romero use the sides of the magnet or NS or SN passing the core. I think he just squeezing poles to makes more efficient magnet to achieve result at lower speed. The direction we're going right now is merging on zooty, elias, hoptoad(thanks qvision) and it makes sense. Hope we find something else along the way that reinforce our vision. Once we find the root cause, we can just swing it.

[toranarod]

If people would follow the link i gave in my last post above and read pages 8 and 11 and tell me what they think, i think it gives a good insight into what is happeneing here.

going there now

[toranarod]

dedicated team

Rodney,

Have you experimented charging capacitors? It might result in a fast dragless charging as I see this. Also you might want to consider using a step up transformer at the output of the coil, which has a low impedance input. This might also even lag the input current more, resulting in much less drag.

Elias

[qvision]

If people would follow the link i gave in my last post above and read pages 8 and 11 and tell me what they think, i think it gives a good insight into what is happeneing here.

[elias]

Rodney,

Have you experimented charging capacitors? It might result in a fast dragless charging as I see this. Also you might want to consider using a step up transformer at the output of the coil, which has a low impedance input. This might also even lag the input current more, resulting in much less drag.

Elias

[elias]

The first thing I would like to question is of all the talk, and evidence, of high RPM's overcoming lens law. So far, everyone has referred to the determining variable as RPM's, but to me that seems kind of inaccurate. Wouldn't the actual factor be the speed at which the magnet travels past the coil and/or coil's core?

Is there another thread that would be better fit to identify the lens law variables? Perhaps we should start one?

Once again guys good work! And keep on keepin on!

Hi
You are right, the speed of magnet passing the coil is a factor, the other factor is the time constant L/R of the coil, where L is the coil inductance, and R is the coil resistance + load.

I started these sorts of experiments, on January this year and concluded, that free energy is obvious and so started this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7469-2011-year-free-energy-became-obvious.html

I tried to gather all the information I could on this subject. Using a larger rotor will certainly benefit as Muller was using. Using higher gauge wire and More turns + higher permeability core material is another great factor. Core dimensions versus Magnet dimensions is another factor. The hiding a tree in a forest method presented by Rod is another method I suppose that amplifies this effect.

What we have lacked on this forum is experimentation mentoring. You know each of us must build different setups, with different parameters so that we will get a broader understanding of the effect.

I am onto this if people want to participate, we need to design experimentation scenarios, that each participant can take, and post the results after a certain time, e. g. two weeks. We will then gather all the data and plot some charts and try to find out where the effect is maximized.

So these are the photos of my new generator and coils:



My two new coils, The top one is 5-filar 200 turns and the bottom one is a single filar 2mm wire, about 250 turns.
The second coil, which has much lower resistance, when shorted at about 5610 RPM, just drops the RPM down to about 5520, and it take quite some time to do this, When loaded by a 12V 55watt lamp, the voltage sits at about 4.7V and the current is about 3A, resulting in about 14Watts of output, the DC motor only draws about 10watts more power, loading the rotor down to about 5160 RPM. (This is overunity already, COP 1.4, but this can be maximized upto infinity course, with right parameters, L, R coil dimensions, rotor speed, etc).
Now Rod's idea bout using a DC to DC converter is brilliant, because we have to decrease drag with high current and low voltage energy taken from the coil, which results in a more L/R time constant. Actually I think a phase shift is happening, because the voltage on the coil is AC. decreasing R shifts the current phase so that it does not interfere with the Rotor.

Now my next step is to add more windings to my coil. And I need to get a much lower impedance lamp, a 12v,100Watt car lamp might do it.

Another method of getting energy is coil shorting which there is another thread for this subject I believe.

Elias

[qvision]

Bending Lenz Law ...

A possible explanation of the effect is contained in this article.

Page 8 describes how to achieve the effect and page 11 attempts to explain it.

http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/index.html

[toranarod]

Here are the datasets that Rod has posted up to this point. Note that these have varying coil types, rotor radius, etc....

http://www.energeticforum.com/146934-post789.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/147156-post803.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/147278-post814.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/148093-post860.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/149263-post957.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/149055-post933.html

hello Shadesz
there are a lot variables in the data I have not posted. its very time consuming to log and report every thing. I am currently going over coil core and magnet ratios.

I will make a point to be a bit more detailed. if there is some information you need i will dig up what i can or test for that specific value. A combined effort will get this moving along. great to have your input .

I will put together a list of your requested information.

[Shadesz]

Here are the datasets that Rod has posted up to this point. Note that these have varying coil types, rotor radius, etc....

http://www.energeticforum.com/146934-post789.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/147156-post803.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/147278-post814.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/148093-post860.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/149263-post957.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/149055-post933.html

[Shadesz]

You guys got me

If you read my whopping 13 posts in this forum you will find I was mostly skeptical of many things that are being pursued and discussed on energeticforum.com

However, curiosity kept me lurking, especially through this thread. You guys have made me change my mind. Originally a nay-sayer of free-energy, I have become a cautious believer! There is a lot of good work going on here and I want to thank and encourage you guys! If nothing else, you have converted this unbeliever!

But I don't think that is all that will come of this particular investigation. Your team combines some good minds, great ambition/dedication, some great mechanical talent, great electrical talent, and a willingness to share. I'm very impressed. You guys have a good formula for success!

And this is what has brought me out of the darkness. I have some very basic stuff to learn about electricity, motors, generators, etc., so my hands on contribution may be a while out. (Have any intro to electronic or electrical engineering textbooks you would recommend?) BUT I do have a mind that is pretty sharp with numbers and scientific reasoning. I plan to offer as much help as I can.

The first thing I would like to question is of all the talk, and evidence, of high RPM's overcoming lens law. So far, everyone has referred to the determining variable as RPM's, but to me that seems kind of inaccurate. Wouldn't the actual factor be the speed at which the magnet travels past the coil and/or coil's core?

This is an important distinction because units with varying rotor sizes will have different magnet speeds at the same RPM.

By not standardizing the variable in which lens law is overcome, we may miss patterns of like variables in different test units. IE one unit overcomes lens law at 1,500 RPM and another @ 3,000 RPM. While these may seem different, what if the speed at which the magnet is traveling past the coil is the same due to different rotor radius?

I thank Rod for posting so much of his raw data, and welcome every bit of data collected by everyone with a working (AND non-working) test unit. I'll assume one of the number crunching positions on the team and try to help identify the important information and develop formulas and calculations to help tweak the units.

Currently I want to help extract a formula that will help us balance RPM's, Lens Law, and Rotor size to get us the best performance at the safest speed. To do this, I have a few questions for those who have noticed Lens Law being overcome....

-At what RPM did you notice this effect started?

-What was the radius from the center of your rotor to the tip of your magnet?

-What dimensions was your magnet? Dimensions of you coil? The dimensions of the core of the coil if it had one?

-Can you post the data you have collected on those units? All the data (especially that at, and above which, it appears lens law was overcome?

Is there another thread that would be better fit to identify the lens law variables? Perhaps we should start one?

Once again guys good work! And keep on keepin on!

[quantumuppercut]

He just needs a confident boost. I put all my chips in on Zooty. Do or die. lol

[toranarod]

I had an alternative theory on this effect but it looks like i was wrong. I thought there was a delay in the magnetization/demagnetization of the core so that over a certain RPM, lenz was still present but not top dead center but rather after TDC. As the magnet approaches a gen coil under load, lenz tries to repel it and after TDC lenz attracts it. If it is offset due to delay in the core, the repulsion on lead out will push and the attraction will also push virtual south.

Zooty; Why do you think you are wrong?

this is the only theory that makes any sense