Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Of course that's better, have you tested your RPMs with and without the core near the rotor, I want to make sure it doesn't drag your rotor significantly.

Data coming right up

[elias]

I have never actually mentioned this before. Sorry.
MY Iron cores are laminates

Of course that's better, have you tested your RPMs with and without the core near the rotor, I want to make sure it doesn't drag your rotor significantly.

[toranarod]

here is an idea for some thought?

how about cross wiring the Muller motor. This has just come to me as a possibility. So Any input would be welcome.

as we know the top and bottom coil are wired together in series, correct?
Why not wire one of the top coils to a bottom coil that's in a different location with regards to the timing of the motor. Move lenz drag to another location on the rotor, You would of course need to work out the details but I think you get the idea. Has this been tried before?

I am going back to my Muller replica right now to see if it looks possible.

cheers Rod

[toranarod]

I think i know why Romero's motor speeds up so much in this video ‪RomeroUK Video Pre-Muller release‬‏ - YouTube

Assuming the effect is caused by a delay in the core making lenz late, if you have a south pole magnet just after your north goes by, when lenz kicks in, not only is it going to push north but it is going to attract south. Look at his magnets. They are nsns stuck side by side. Also, low resistance/high inductance coils must play a big part in the delay of the core. The lower the resistance coupled with high inductance seems to cause more delay in the core. How do you get low resistance/high inductance? Romero's coil that slider showed is the key. Bedini also modified his kromray build by doing 3 parallel wires on his output coil instead of the single strand. That thing speeds up like crazy under load.

The one thing that has got me really confused is Romero's coils used 6 mm Ferrite cores and it only was said to run at 1200 RPM?

[Zooty]

I think i know why Romero's motor speeds up so much in this video ‪RomeroUK Video Pre-Muller release‬‏ - YouTube

Assuming the effect is caused by a delay in the core making lenz late, if you have a south pole magnet just after your north goes by, when lenz kicks in, not only is it going to push north but it is going to attract south. Look at his magnets. They are nsns stuck side by side. Also, low resistance/high inductance coils must play a big part in the delay of the core. The lower the resistance coupled with high inductance seems to cause more delay in the core. How do you get low resistance/high inductance? Romero's coil that slider showed is the key. Bedini also modified his kromray build by doing 3 parallel wires on his output coil instead of the single strand. That thing speeds up like crazy under load.

[toranarod]

I agree solid iron cores can cause real problems with eddy currents. However if you use small pieces of iron for your core you can eliminate the eddy currents. I use electric fence wire cut into lengths the same as my coil length. I have never had any problems with it heating up because of eddy currents. You can also use old transformer laminations but of course they are a little harder to come by and may have to be cut to the size you need.

I have been following this thread from the beginning and trying to keep up with all the developments. Several of you are a real inspiration to the rest of us. Especially Rod and his determination. I am still running my own tests and if I discover anything interesting I will be sure and share it.

Carroll

I have never actually mentioned this before. Sorry.
MY Iron cores are laminates

[quantumuppercut]

I've done a analysis on the kromrey waveform vs resonant waveform.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Seems like the kromrey is 2x the resonant frequency.

[Farmhand]

What about Iron powder cores ?

Plain cores on the right side of the page.
Micrometals - Iron Powder Cores

Material details
Micrometals - Iron Powder Cores

They are fairly inexpensive, I bought some 38mm x 9.5mm core's a while back for less than a dollar Au. each from memory. I don't know if they would be any good for this application. I just thought I would mention it since I haven't seen them mentioned yet. They work for me in other applications but I don't know enough to comment on thier application here. Most people seem to prefer ferrite for some reason.

[qvision]

@Itsu

Those files on my home webpage :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Adams.rar

don't mention specific resistances but some of the diagrams include parallel circuits, and in the same collection Adams mentions a range of resistances rather than a specific one.

I think it's the concept which is important rather than a one hundred percent, physically exact replication, as Adams himself states that the pulse-circuitry can be either mechanical commutator or magnetic induction or optical or whatever, and he seems to give us lots of design-leeway when it comes to magnet composition vs input voltage also.

And yes, the Adams pages on Totally Amped don't claim OU, in fact the author is highly skeptical.

But one has to admit there is something very strange about magnetism, it's all very well explaining it away in domains and BH curves etc.. but in the end it is just like gravity - no-one really has a clue.

We're so lucky to have forums like this where we can all share results and opinions, perhaps more advancements would be made if a few people collaborated more efficiently on a specific problem as FreePenguin has suggested, then we could share objectives and results and work in parallell, which is a great potential of the net, a sort of human-work-hours multiplier, a virtual laboratory.

P.S. Ye, C390 ferrite cores for the win !

[142857]

142857

A couple things.
First, have you taken into consideration that there is inherent energy in the magnets that we do not pay for?

I just have to say that this is imo, and contrary to most of the evidence, incorrect.
the magnet has no more inherent energy than say a spring.


a magnetic field may hold some potential energy as a result of it's placement in proximity to some other material or other magnet.

[citfta]

Soft iron cores

Rod,

Iron cores have eddy currents and can produce misleading results.

Elias

I agree solid iron cores can cause real problems with eddy currents. However if you use small pieces of iron for your core you can eliminate the eddy currents. I use electric fence wire cut into lengths the same as my coil length. I have never had any problems with it heating up because of eddy currents. You can also use old transformer laminations but of course they are a little harder to come by and may have to be cut to the size you need.

I have been following this thread from the beginning and trying to keep up with all the developments. Several of you are a real inspiration to the rest of us. Especially Rod and his determination. I am still running my own tests and if I discover anything interesting I will be sure and share it.

Carroll

[toranarod]

So my theory was partially right but i never took in to account the resistance of the coil. According to the document, the delay in the core increases as the coil resistance decreases which now makes absolute sense! Drop the resistance of your coil more and more and lenz is offset more and more. Once lenz happens on the on the trailing side of a magnet, it pushes it. I guess core material is of importance here to get the best effect and ferrite is probably not a good choice unless you are going above 6000 RPM. Low frequency core material with good permeability like soft iron is probably a good easy to find alternative.

Good
this is what I observed that's why I asked why did you think you where on the wrong track. good explanation you have posted above.
How do we come up with a the optimal set up. we still need more definable parameters to get the appropriate data.

I want to set up an external drive motor like Elias.Thanks for the info on the motor.

back to work
cheers

[elias]

Rod,

Iron cores have eddy currents and can produce misleading results. The DC motor is Buhler 80W motor 3000 RPM. I drive it at 20V to 3000RPM and 40V to get 6000RPM.

BECAREFUL if you are to increase the rpm, it is like a bomb.

I doubled the windings of my 2mm wire coil resulting in about 500 turns.
I ran the motor at about 5580 RPM, when I short the coil, while drawing really good amount of current the RPM only dropped to 5547! Not much at all.

Elias

[Zooty]

If people would follow the link i gave in my last post above and read pages 8 and 11 and tell me what they think, i think it gives a good insight into what is happeneing here.

So my theory was partially right but i never took in to account the resistance of the coil. According to the document, the delay in the core increases as the coil resistance decreases which now makes absolute sense! Drop the resistance of your coil more and more and lenz is offset more and more. Once lenz happens on the on the trailing side of a magnet, it pushes it. I guess core material is of importance here to get the best effect and ferrite is probably not a good choice unless you are going above 6000 RPM. Low frequency core material with good permeability like soft iron is probably a good easy to find alternative.

[elias]

If people would follow the link i gave in my last post above and read pages 8 and 11 and tell me what they think, i think it gives a good insight into what is happeneing here.

That explanation is correct but it doesn't mean we don't have any COP>1 effect. I had seen those pages before, really informative.