Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Wow Rod ! Shweeeet My cat ran away when it started to get louder LOL.

That's great, i'm going to order one of those motors next week.

What was your volts/amps input at 8000 RPM ?


QV.

I am in the process of installing new magnets and new coils.
you will get a full report on all the specs. I never with hold information that can help others. to all


What was your volts/amps input at 8000 RPM ? the few measurement I did take at that speed where around 3.5 to 4 AMP at 8000 RPM at 12 volts.
at that speed the current is High but it can be controlled.

[qvision]

Wow Rod ! Shweeeet My cat ran away when it started to get louder LOL.

That's great, i'm going to order one of those motors next week.

What was your volts/amps input at 8000 RPM ?


QV.

[stevie1001]

Muller Motor Driven by Out Runner to 8000 RPM - YouTube

here is the Video of my Out runner powering the Muller. Better late than never

Am i the only one waiting for a massive explosion in that video?
Great vid, T!
Be carefull. Maybe some safety shields? When the rotor breaks down, you will be down too, and we dont want that to happen.....

[toranarod]

Hi Rod,

what did you do to minimise vibration/noise ?

Muller Motor Driven by Out Runner to 8000 RPM - YouTube

here is the Video of my Out runner powering the Muller. Better late than never

[hello_all]

interesting fact..

seen some more videos , most of the people have 2 coils one for high current and one for high voltage .. they short the high voltage low current coil and it speeds up the rotor and then they get the high current on the 2nd coil , which they put the load... So 2 sets one to speed up and the second to put load .. Some people have one coil made in which the inside is for high current and outside for high voltage .. Short the high voltage one and then speed up to get the current out.. this way they don;t loose the rpm..

[qvision]

Hi Rod,

what did you do to minimise vibration/noise ?

[toranarod]

Is he using high voltage low amps and low voltage high amps on one coil (two windings), before magnet is at TDC HV and then at TDC he switches the coil to LV ?

just a point about this motor. he also talks about high RPM before he engages the generator coils.

[toranarod]

Hi

I made some calculations to see what type of coil has the maximum delay ~ L/R.

A typical coil inductance is:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * A / l

by substituting A = pi*r^2:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * r^2 * pi / l

where u is the permeability, K is Nagaoka coefficient, N is the number of turns, A is the coil surface area, and l is the coil length.

R ~ pi * r * N, where r is the coil radius and N is the number of turns.

Now we will omit the constants for simplicity and calculate L/R:

L/R ~ K * N * r / l

According to the graph below we will derive a forumula for K:


K ~ 1 - exp( - l / 2r )

Then:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-l/2r) * N * r / l

By substituting a = l / r, we get:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-a/2)) * N / a

As you can see there are two terms that needs to be maximized to maximize the response delay: N, which can only be limited by the physical dimensions, and (1-exp(-a/2))/a,

According to this formula, as a gets smaller, The delay gets bigger, so the pancake coil has the maximum delay. We are limited by physical dimensions. If we are to increase the number of turns so we have to increase the coil length, but we must not exceed a = 1. In a = 1 we have lost 20% of the coil inductance already. For a = 0.5 we lose about 11% of coil inductance, which is more preferable. As the coil length increases Inductance approaches zero.

a = 1 means that our coil length to radius ratio is about equal. Romeros coils were close to these dimensions.

In short, on order the maximize L/R we need to minimize l/r.

Elias

Good post
somebody is doing it right. I will copy the Photo if THAT'S OK.

I haven't posted for a while Have been having problems with balance at 7000 RPM, the noise and vibration was no good for prolonged use. I got it all sorted now. I am waiting on my magnetite to arrive.
hope to show a video.

good work
Rod

[elias]

Hi

I made some calculations to see what type of coil has the maximum delay ~ L/R.

A typical coil inductance is:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * A / l

by substituting A = pi*r^2:

L ~ u * K * N^2 * r^2 * pi / l

where u is the permeability, K is Nagaoka coefficient, N is the number of turns, A is the coil surface area, and l is the coil length.

R ~ pi * r * N, where r is the coil radius and N is the number of turns.

Now we will omit the constants for simplicity and calculate L/R:

L/R ~ K * N * r / l

According to the graph below we will derive a forumula for K:


K ~ 1 - exp( - l / 2r )

Then:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-l/2r) * N * r / l

By substituting a = l / r, we get:

L/R ~ (1-exp(-a/2)) * N / a

As you can see there are two terms that needs to be maximized to maximize the response delay: N, which can only be limited by the physical dimensions, and (1-exp(-a/2))/a,

According to this formula, as a gets smaller, The delay gets bigger, so the pancake coil has the maximum delay. We are limited by physical dimensions. If we are to increase the number of turns so we have to increase the coil length, but we must not exceed a = 1. In a = 1 we have lost 20% of the coil inductance already. For a = 0.5 we lose about 11% of coil inductance, which is more preferable. As the coil length increases Inductance approaches zero.

a = 1 means that our coil length to radius ratio is about equal. Romeros coils were close to these dimensions.

In short, on order the maximize L/R we need to minimize l/r.

Elias

[scratchrobot]

Hi folks, Hi scratchrobot, from what I've researched of thanes work, unless he has changed some aspects of his main device principle, he uses a thinner gauge wire and a lot of it on the main core.
Then he used a heavier gauge wire coil wrap on top of that to recover a lower voltage output to power small bulb.
Though just the inner main, thin high gauge coil shorted out, accelerates on its own.
peace love light
tyson

Thanks for the info I will try that

Regards

[stevie1001]

Stevie, try putting your drive coils in series, if they are already, try adding another one, sometimes you can get the same or more RPM for less input current.

Hi QV,

The drive coils are already in serie.
I will try soon an extra set of drivecoils.
I ll guess we are on the same level

Tonight, i want to play with recovery of bemf. The fet is becoming a bit warm and thats energy waist from bemf. The 2.5watts could be cut in half if the bemf recovery
is done properly.
Keep you updated!
I will be soon up to the level of beating lenz up ..........

[qvision]

Stevie, try putting your drive coils in series, if they are already, try adding another one, sometimes you can get the same or more RPM for less input current.

[stevie1001]

ROTOR = 36 CM DIAM.
1CM THICK PVC
8 NEOS OF 20MM BY 10MM TYPE N40 Pull max 11kg each

Small update:
I made a new control circuit with monostable 555 chip for controlling pulse duration of the hall pulse.

The rotor is now doing 975 rpm on 2.5watts on one set of drivercoils

[Shadesz]

So I was able to skip 4 semesters of math last week but man my brain hurts now lol. Good reading so far. Interesting idea to use those rc motors to drive the system. Question...

They seem to prefer lower voltage higher current correct? Is this partly what makes them attractive to use as OU drive coils (using the dc to dc converter to do this)?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Hi scratchrobot, from what I've researched of thanes work, unless he has changed some aspects of his main device principle, he uses a thinner gauge wire and a lot of it on the main core.
Then he used a heavier gauge wire coil wrap on top of that to recover a lower voltage output to power small bulb.
Though just the inner main, thin high gauge coil shorted out, accelerates on its own.
peace love light
tyson