Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[qvision]

Thanks ZPE.

Can someone post the plasticare link please, i can't find it using advanced search !

UK CNC people charge a lot, and i have tried three companies now who are all very slow if you want something that isn't standard, so i'm thinking that, even with P&P, i may be better off buying from the US.

[elias]

Thanks Shadesz.
Lenz's Law & Eddy Currents - YouTube

why can we use this to test coils and cores, and then test other materials like the magnets.

there is something I must try. do you think the ring would levitate from a coil in the generator? if being powered by the magnets not from a power supply.
I bet it would if it was shorted. does any one think this may show something
that we are having trouble measuring at the moment?

THANKS for the experiment that was really GOOD, It would be amazing if we could drive the rotor by using this force. May you measure the current input to your coil and see if the ring affects it or not?

[toranarod]

Second page? What? We are slacking!?!

JK, I hope the break was good for all of us!

Rod,

Good job making that aluminum ring levitate! It was interesting that you got it with a 49 degree phase shift and at only 60 hertz. I wonder what would happen to our magnets if we delay our pickup coil's current just 45 degrees.

Thanks for the tips on rotors everyone. I might get access to a machine shop (the friend is currently out of state on a church mission) but I might get to use his shop anyway. I have to contact him.

Keep on plugging

Thanks Shadesz.
Lenz's Law & Eddy Currents - YouTube

why can we use this to test coils and cores, and then test other materials like the magnets.

there is something I must try. do you think the ring would levitate from a coil in the generator? if being powered by the magnets not from a power supply.
I bet it would if it was shorted. does any one think this may show something
that we are having trouble measuring at the moment?

[ZeropointEnergy]

mostly concepts

Hi ZPE,

i like your idea about phi and circuitry, i don't know if anyone has tried it. Can you give us a schematic of what you tried ?

Hey QV,

I do have a few diagrams based off phi ratios and other geometry and
have only gone as far as that. (although others are pushing me to try)
I was throwing this out there because of the references to 1.618 as a
ratio in coils and like you wonder "who" has tried it?


Regards
Zero

[Shadesz]

BTW,

60 hz is only 450 RPM on an 8 magnet rotor.

[Dave45]

Rod
Have you built the pointed cores yet

[Shadesz]

Second page? What? We are slacking!?!

JK, I hope the break was good for all of us!

Rod,

Good job making that aluminum ring levitate! It was interesting that you got it with a 49 degree phase shift and at only 60 hertz. I wonder what would happen to our magnets if we delay our pickup coil's current just 45 degrees.

Thanks for the tips on rotors everyone. I might get access to a machine shop (the friend is currently out of state on a church mission) but I might get to use his shop anyway. I have to contact him.

Keep on plugging

[MonsieurM]

guys as i was reading the following Floyd Sweet: Space Quanta Magnifier / Vacuum Triode Amplifier ~ Collected papers, diagrams, photos & videos , I found this little piece of info

A Way to Program Magnets

I have spoken with a fellow who had hired Don Watson several years ago to replicate the Sweet device; allegedly Watson was able to get about 3 watts from one model. The deal however went sour somehow, and work was not continued.

Sweet, too, had a beginning model that output 6 watts until he did something *more* to excite the living you-know-what out of the barium nuclei - only after that was the phenomenal power gain (and 500 watt nominal output) available to use (for a while - until it inevitably sputtered out).

Watson is correct in mentioning one way to excite barium nuclei in a magnet. It is a weak method however, and does not cause much action (at least as I have done it)

One experiment I tried on this angle some time ago, caused some odd effects.

I had a 4x6x1" barium ferrite slab sitting on top of a large tupperware (polypropylene) container, about 2 feet off the floor. The slab was magnetized and its attraction held a steel alligator clip onto it, in electrical contact. The other end of the alligator clip wire (about 2 feet long) connected to one terminal of a neon sign transformer.

The neon xfmr is rated 15 kV, center tapped, so each output represents about a 7.5 kV RMS AC signal, the two outputs being out of phase of course. The other end of the xfmr output was left open. Only one end was used. The transformer's case (center tap) was grounded.

So the magnet sitting on the plastic container was oscillated with about 7.5 kVRMS at 60 Hz.

I was living with a roommate at the time who came near the thing and didn't know it was "on". Glad he didn't touch it.

He was curious what it was and said when he put his head near the magnet to have a look, it built up a "pressure" behind his forehead, which caused him a curious headache afterward. (use Caution )


The magnet, after a while of this treatment, does develop a *slight* and mellow buzz, as I am used to feeling it. However I doubt it would be immediately perceptible to the unaccustomed observer. It is a small thing. And it will not create magnetic bubbles, so far as I know.

The excitation does decay rapidly, and usually will not hold for more than a period of ten minutes. It begins to decay immediately after excitation is removed, and the rate of decay appears to be exponential.

[gyula]

This is from my last post:


What this means, I can not tell for sure, but I think that there must be something else to those cores Muller was using, that made them unable to induce drag to rotor.

If the load was purely resistive for the gen coils then it can explain the voltage-current phase coincidence pretty close, once the cores had a low permeability, meaning a low value inductance can cause but a small amount of phase shift. One more thing: I am sure the precise mechanical setup for eliminating mechanical cogging surely reduced this effect, for probably the mechanical forces between the odd/even pairs were only moderately and symmetrically opposed by the Lenz 'drag'. (I mean If the coils had had much higher self inductance and not stepped shape, the drag must have been much higher.)

Gyula

[kajunkreations]

I found some new info.
Most of you may have seen this video: Bill Muller Coiltest - YouTube

Bill Muller lights a 300W lamp with no drag to his rotor.

This is what Bill Muller says on that video:



Then Konehead has commented:

I have studied all of the videos that I can find on the muller dynamo, There are few conflicting videos. The older videos(coil test video) uses regular round coils, and the coil that he holds in his hand is also just a round coil. If you listen carefully it does slow the rotor down a little, not as much as you would expect but it does slow down.
I have tried the set up with switching both the hi and lo side of the coil and only firing the coil on the north poles, the rotor is NSNS config. It allows you isolate the coil easily when it is not being used as a motor. so that means you capture the bemf and the south passing pole and then firing again for the next north pole. I had some positive results with this but still need the right coils, I do believe this the right direction to go.
I think all coils sets have to be used for driving and collection. In the video where Carmen does the presentation, she shows a video of the Mark II on a projector with Rex Herbert working the motor. He says that they control all 15 coil sets and all can be used for driving and generation and that in 1 revolution there are 240 switches that take place. He also says that they can reverse the polarity of the coils.
I believe with the right high current ,low impedance coils and using pulses to defeat lenz we will get somewhere.

Nolan

[elias]

This is from my last post:

If looking with scope, CURRENT and VOLTS peaks happen at same time in those coils

What this means, I can not tell for sure, but I think that there must be something else to those cores Muller was using, that made them unable to induce drag to rotor.

[eagle_0x]

Hello,
I am new here watching this dicsussion with great interest. I just saw this vid of Muller and the special core-material
Here we go ( low permeability and constant magnetic characteristics ):
Amorphous Magnetic Powder Core, Sell Amorphous Magnetic Powder Core,Amorphous Magnetic Powder Core,Magnetic Powder Core - Power Transmission & Transformer

Regards

eagle_0x

[thaelin]

Laser cut rotors

I can agree on the laser cut. I just received my parts and its great. I highly recommend it if you want precision parts. If you are the one who dropped the link to Plasticare, many thanks.

thay

@Shadesz
I usually make them laser cut out of plexiglass, but I don't know how much it will cost you in your country. It costs me about 25$ for each rotor of a reasonable size, (eg 30cm diameter).

[elias]

I found some new info.
Most of you may have seen this video: Bill Muller Coiltest - YouTube

Bill Muller lights a 300W lamp with no drag to his rotor.

This is what Bill Muller says on that video:

Use the strongest magents you can get, "let the magents do the work"

NEVER iron cores against very strong neo magnets

Iron will change polartiy too slow and back up whithin itself causing heat ans waste and LATCH

His cores of amorphous black sand have "random ferrites" in them, and the ferrites are encased in crystalline if you look with microscope

Those big neomagnets glide right past his cores

If looking with scope, CURRENT and VOLTS peaks happen at same time in those coils

Then Konehead has commented:

I was there when this was filmed!

Rotor has hockey puck size neodimium magnets N-S around rotor. I think 16 of them.

That is 300W bulb lit with one coil held by hand.

Coils mounted to stator plates are of ODD number, while N-S rotor magnets are EVEN number.

CORES of coils are of "low hysterisis amorphous black sand"

He switches motor coil(s) at both hi and lo of coil, (2 swtiches) and extracts backemf/recoil through FWBR AC legs across each switch and DC of FWBR into caps.

[elias]

great simulation.

about your rotors. I buy PVC disc and make rotors out of them. its cheap and easy to work with. do you have any friends with a machine shop just to spin them up to round?

@Shadesz
I usually make them laser cut out of plexiglass, but I don't know how much it will cost you in your country. It costs me about 25$ for each rotor of a reasonable size, (eg 30cm diameter).