Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Oh I will be removing the field from the housing and then removing the wire,
then I'll separate about 1 inch or so of lamination's and cut all the inner
projections off to make a nice neat smooth laminated ring. Or maybe I could
leave four sets of pole projections for the four poles I want. There's about
six inches of lamination, I just hope there is enough solid outer ring radius to
make good core's.

I was just curious about the poles and stuff, I guess I'll work it out. These
one's have no armature's, if I had an armature to look at I would know a lot
more.

Would you believe each phase winding is only 1.3 ohms but 11.75 mH !

Thanks for the download.

That's a great L/R ratio.
don't destroy the motor, Try and set it up as a pulse motor. fundamentally all motors are the same its only how you apply them. I bet you could convert it to a dc pulse motor. power up the rotor coils with DC and pulse the stater coils. or the other way around. Turn it into a stepper motor. you will learn so much from it and it my do something unexpected. With that kind of Resistance it would run on 12 volts if pulsed. The back EMF would be very High.

[Farmhand]

"Would you believe each phase winding is only 1.3 ohms but 11.75 mH ! "

millihenrys not henrys ? Not surprising unless that's Henrys !

What diameter is the wire ?

That's millihenrys, that's what the meter says on the 20 mH setting, the wire looks like about .63 mm diameter maybe .7mm, less than 1mm.

Doesn't seem right to me.

[Dave45]

Another way to do this without such a drastic change in system design

Changing coil wiring around could produce some interesting effects.
By changing the wiring you could have NN or SS or NS, could be fun.
I think it would blast any pickup coil around it.

Dang where did I put that rotor

[qvision]

@ Farmhand, keep us posted mate, glad the book was of some use

[Dave45]

Another way to do this without such a drastic change in system design

Changing coil wiring around could produce some interesting effects.
By changing the wiring you could have NN or SS or NS, could be fun.
I think it would blast any pickup coil around it.

[Farmhand]

Chapter 2 page 36 of the PDF in the download qvision linked above (control of Induction Motors) says this.

In the braking mode, the rotor is forced to rotate against the stator field,
which causes high EMFs and currents induced in the rotor conductors. This
mode can easily be imposed on a motor by reversing the field, which is
accomplished by interchanging two leads between the power line and
stator terminals, that is, by changing the phase sequence. However, the
braking torque is low, so that this method of slowing the motor down is
not very effective. In addition, both the kinetic energy given up by the
load and the electric energy supplied to the motor are dissipated in the
rotor winding. Thus, no energy is recovered, and the motor is likely to
overheat.
Much more efficient braking results from forcing the motor to operate
in the generating mode, which requires that the rotor turns faster than the
field. This is done by reducing the field speed, n^yn, so that it revolves
slower than the rotor. According to Eq. (2.4), it can be done by increasing
the number, Pp, of pole pairs of the stator or by decreasing the supply
frequency, /. Indeed, certain motors have stator windings so arranged
that they can be connected in more than one configuration, yielding, for
instance, p^i = 1 and Pp 2 = 2. In the adjustable-speed drive systems,
the motor is fed from an inverter, which supplies stator currents of variable
frequency. There, the generating mode can easily be enforced by keeping
track of the rotor speed and reducing the supply frequency accordingly.

Basically it says the best way to slow down the motor is to make it generate
by slowing down the rotational speed of the field. Which is funny because
Tesla describes the rotating magnetic field generator in this patent below as doing
the same thing but in reverse as well and the currents are taken from the
armature in this setup. The armature is shown in side view as well below to
show the wiring connections.

Dynamo Electric Machine Patent.

P.S. Where it says "best available copy" on the patent the Y is almost missing
so it looks like it says best available COP. But it doesn't.

Cheers

P.S. in the Tesla setup in the patent above I think he is saying that when the
field winding's in the generator are excited, the Armature (rotor) turns with the
rotating field. Then to get current from the armature it can be loaded or drive
something, which causes the braking effect described in the PDF Quote from
qvision but in Tesla's setup this was good because that made output
available, same as if the rotor (armature) is driven faster, it generates both
ways loaded or driven. Load the rotor it generates, drive the rotor it generates.

This is it. I think Telsa's Dynamo Electric Machine is the one for me. I'll try to
get a motor working with a normal armature first.

..




.

[qvision]

"Would you believe each phase winding is only 1.3 ohms but 11.75 mH ! "

millihenrys not henrys ? Not surprising unless that's Henrys !

What diameter is the wire ?

[Dave45]

its got me thinking. My brain is ruining in OU
keeps us informed. good luck

This was just to give you guy's some ideas, I wont be building it anytime soon, Im still working on the Don Smith device.
Dave

The high voltage coil should supercharge the magnets, The main reason Im working on the Don Smith device is because it will give us a basic understanding of whats happening with all coils.

[Farmhand]

Farmhand, nice piece of hardware there but i have no idea how to rewire it.

Here is a link to a good book on induction motors, it's not heavy on the maths because i'm not !

Choose the 'Slow Download' link halfway down on the right :

Download 0127015108Motors.rar for free on Filesonic.com

Hope it helps.

Oh I will be removing the field from the housing and then removing the wire,
then I'll separate about 1 inch or so of lamination's and cut all the inner
projections off to make a nice neat smooth laminated ring. Or maybe I could
leave four sets of pole projections for the four poles I want. There's about
six inches of lamination, I just hope there is enough solid outer ring radius to
make good core's.

I was just curious about the poles and stuff, I guess I'll work it out. These
one's have no armature's, if I had an armature to look at I would know a lot
more.

Would you believe each phase winding is only 1.3 ohms but 11.75 mH !

Thanks for the download.

[qvision]

Farmhand, nice piece of hardware there but i have no idea how to rewire it.

Here is a link to a good book on induction motors, it's not heavy on the maths because i'm not !

Choose the 'Slow Download' link halfway down on the right :

Download 0127015108Motors.rar for free on Filesonic.com

Hope it helps.

[Farmhand]

I need to start building a motor. I have these, I can get some steel from them.

Each lamination is a ring by the looks of it. If I cut the wire out maybe I can use
some rings for a small laminated annular core and wind some coils on there. Then
build an armature or rotor to fit it. It's for a 7 Kw induction motor three phase.

Can anyone tell me if I could connect a three phase motor like this to work from
one phase, and how the poles would happen, maybe ?



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Cheers

[Farmhand]

I been working on this all day.
Hello to silder if he reads this post. the best coil I have is my 7 strand Litz coil

The frequency changes your XL value of course this in turn changes the current through the coil. The value of the coils in the generator are very important at the frequency as we have said many times. I have been testing the generator coils in parallel with other coils and the Phase moves from one coil to the other as the frequency changes when the coils are of different values.
Just as before the resistance of the load changes the speed of the rotor and resistance changes the Phase, this value will make the rotor increase in speed if correct or Lenz will be at its worst and slow down the rotor.
who was it that wanted me to do a scope Phase screen shot t



This test was a bit crude and it should be followed up with something more professional . I just was trying to notice if there was any eddy current around the generator coils. the problem is the frequency of the Ac coming from the generator is 500 Hz this changes the current and the Phase in the coils and there is very low magnetic field because the Reactance is so high.

My concern here is the speed under load of the rotor. Why does it work better at high frequency when the Reactance is high. its not how I imagined it.

I must wind a very low inductance coil. I mean very low.

Video 28.wmv - YouTube

Firstly, that out-runner driven generator is freaking awesome.

I think the induced emf in the secondary coil is reversed from the emf in the
primary coil and so the transformer coil makes the eddy currents in the ring
more. And there should be more heat developed in the ring because of it.

That's just my first impression.

I think if the ring was put above the secondary it would still levitate.

Nice demo.

[toranarod]

Great idea, it got me thinking of the Testika electrostatic generator, I couldnt help myself

its got me thinking. My brain is ruining in OU
keeps us informed. good luck

[toranarod]

I been working on this all day.
Hello to silder if he reads this post. the best coil I have is my 7 strand Litz coil

The frequency changes your XL value of course this in turn changes the current through the coil. The value of the coils in the generator are very important at the frequency as we have said many times. I have been testing the generator coils in parallel with other coils and the Phase moves from one coil to the other as the frequency changes when the coils are of different values.
Just as before the resistance of the load changes the speed of the rotor and resistance changes the Phase, this value will make the rotor increase in speed if correct or Lenz will be at its worst and slow down the rotor.
who was it that wanted me to do a scope Phase screen shot t



This test was a bit crude and it should be followed up with something more professional . I just was trying to notice if there was any eddy current around the generator coils. the problem is the frequency of the Ac coming from the generator is 500 Hz this changes the current and the Phase in the coils and there is very low magnetic field because the Reactance is so high.

My concern here is the speed under load of the rotor. Why does it work better at high frequency when the Reactance is high. its not how I imagined it.

I must wind a very low inductance coil. I mean very low.

Video 28.wmv - YouTube

[Farmhand]

Here is something I thought was worth another video.
Lenz Law & Eddy Currents_2 coil shorting - YouTube

I think the big observation is the amount of heat produced in the ring for such a relatively weak effect for the power consumed.

.