Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

that is the best I can do so far input 180v-265vac to 27vdc out, not sure what the lock rotor max needs to be for start up. I used one of these last year on a 4 gear migwire feeder. I needed it adjustable so I found a cheap $10 scooter controller and nailed it on the output

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11219627365...oAAOSwA3dYH3hn

[BroMikey]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27444854809...gAAOSwC6Nfdtm0

A 22 pole rotor spinning at 2800 revolutions per minute also has a value in seconds. or 22 X 2800 = 61,600 clicks per minute. Divided by 60 gives us the HZ which is in seconds. This comes out to 1000 hz or a tiny over. First order of business MUST be to use a fast bridge and collect what will be closer to 300vdc with the proper regulation cap bank. A bridge rectifier with the right size caps takes 117vac up to 155vdc coming off a wall outlet of 60hz. A wall circuit of 240vac sent to a bridge rectifier with a properly sized capacitor will provide 310vdc

This is the standard. However when no caps are present this does not apply. Without caps you face instability challenges. 1st regulation just takes some of the hum out of the ac signal. and converts AC to DC. It is not needed to add high regulation as a feed to a converter. These converters do exists that change 220vac into 28vdc for campers. That start out at 20-30 amps. Here is a cheater

https://usa.banggood.com/AC-to-DC-Po...7f6a966b29aeb5

[BroMikey]

I have two 120 to 28 volt transformers that are rated at 4 amps. My thought is to put two in series to handle the 270 volt output of a coil pair.:

You can not pump 1000hz AC into a 60hz transformer.

Toroidal cores as audio transformers in the 1khz range are available. Calculations are made on the number of turns needed on the high freq core

I have some giant cores at 60hz but 1000hz in no more money it is just a matter of using the right core

I went from 120vac down to 55vac @ 30amps. it is a monster winding and I found a motor rewind shop that had 12awg magnet wire

[BroMikey]

https://components101.com/news/dcm56...power-densisty


Use three 80vdc in series but only isolated converters work. A cheap step down converter on ebay rigged in series to reach the desired voltages.

[Turion]

The only machinist in my little town is tied up today, getting married tomorrow, and won't be back in town until the 18th. Ahhh, life in a small town.

Anyway, taking the rotor to Sacramento in the morning to drop off at my friend's house and he will get it into a machinist there on Monday to drill the four mounting holes. Should be ready a couple days after that. Meanwhile, I wind coils so I am ready when the machine can be put together. My buddies are still saying about six days to have all the wire cores ready to put in bobbins, and then probably two days to epoxy all the cores in place and let them dry for a bit. So we are still a couple weeks out.

I am trying to figure out how to loop this thing. I have two 120 to 28 volt transformers that are rated at 4 amps. My thought is to put two in series to handle the 270 volt output of a coil pair. I know that's more than what they are rated for, but I don't have to run it all day. Just long enough to self run while it is running loads. That would give me a 28 volt AC output that I can rectify to run the drive motor which requires around 26 volts DC to reach the correct RPM. Not sure about the amp requirement of the drive motor until I have it all together and all adjusted, but hoping for less than 7 amps. I also have a buck module that is rated at 70 volts DC that I could use to lower the voltage down to the 20's if I can get the coil output down below 70 somehow using transformers. I have two of those buck modules. I have several 210 to 120 transformers that support high amperage. Any suggestions?

If I can get it to self run and output to loads, I see no reason to waste another $700 to have inputs and outputs documented. other than to rub bi's nose in it, which is almost worth $700 to me.

[BroMikey]

Proof is in the pudding and Dave sure has the big bucks tied up. It cost over $120 per roll to get one delivered. Not to mention the endless hardware on that bench and Bye can't ever afford hot glue.All those Bye style rotors jump all over.

[BroMikey]

[Turion]

Wire.jpeg Wire came in today. Getting set up to wind the 12 coils. Need a machinist to drill the holes through the rotor to mount it to the flange. It won't fit on my drill press and I am not going to screw up this rotor trying to drill straight holes by hand. Called two different machinists today, which is about all we have in our small town. Neither returned my calls. Hopefully tomorrow is a better day. Have lots of coils to wind anyway, so not in a terrible awful hurry. But we all know how bistander reacts to any delays.

If you haven't figured it out by now. I don't much care what anyone thinks. I will do this at my own pace on my own schedule. Anyone who wants it done sooner should have done it themselves. I've give enough information away.

[Turion]

Thanx Alex,

Parts came in today as expected. Need to drill some holes in the rotor to match it to the flange on the shaft. Will be a bit tricky to get those holes straight unless it will fit on the drill press. I haven't looked at it yet to see. Once the holes are done I can begin assembly of the machine. It won't take more than two days, BUT that doesn't include coils. Still have to wind all 12 of those, and my friends in Sacramento are cutting and coating all the pieces of core material. Not a fun job. But neither is winding coils. They are telling me a week to cut all the core material, but shooting for less than that. They actually have to take the wire off the spool in about 6' pieces and then put one end in a vise and the other end in a drill and spin it to take the curl out of the wire so it is straight to put into the cores. Then it has to be cut into the required lengths. Then it has to be painted to insulate each piece from the other pieces. Then it has to be glued into the finished coil. It's quite a process.

Apparently the 6 strand coil put out more power than the three strand coil, which was unexpected. So we may be going with six strand coils. I have a couple questions for them before we make a final decision. The wire doesn't come for a couple days anyway.

[alexelectric]

What details as customary, Mr. Dave, all your experience and tests, and continues to improve, is to have tenacity and want to achieve your purposes, my admiration and respect for sharing and continuing to experiment, takes a long way of tests and trials that follow. giving experience and new ideas, honor to whom honor deserves.
congratulations mr dave

[Turion]

Exploding rotor 1.png Exploding rotor2.png Wire Order.png Cores tested.png

Now that we have a core material, I have ordered five more spools of wire to wind all new coils. Each coil in that picture is a different core material that was tested. What's interesting is that for every coil pictured, there was a six strand coil, a 12 strand coil, and a 24 strand coil to see what the differences in temperature and production were. So BOXES of discarded coils. The very BEST for heat was the nanocrystaline, but it only put out 36 volts. We still have TWO more core materials to test. One of them is a special material just for cores that contains an element that is supposed to dissipate heat. We will see. Delivery two weeks in the future. The old clunker machine is now officially a core tester, so it will remain in service. As long as I don't have to be the one standing in front of it while it is running! I will leave that to the young and foolish. I have warned them on many occasions. It is actually WAY safer than it was because the rotor in it now does not have magnets that stick out and could catch on something, as it did the day it exploded, but it still scares me. The two photos of the damage it did to me that day don't do justice to the damage it did to my computer, my walls or my ceiling. I got off really, really lucky. The picture of my fingers looks a little weird, because of the super glue used to seal off the bleeding. It was the same day Peter Lindemann came to visit and see my machine. LOL

We are using ALL permalloy coils for right now. Because it works. And we want to get the testing done at the lab. Something else may work BETTER, and we will keep searching for that, and probably having additional test rotors built to see what different size magnets will do. But this will be my PARTNERS' ROAD, not mine. I have other projects. Once this machine is tested in an independent lab and proven, things will change. I KNOW what it will do. I don't need the testing done. But it will be nice to have that paperwork in hand. Just to shove down the throats of some people and make them choke. In a friendly kind of way, of course.

If you add up what I have shown for magnets and wire in this machine, it is at around $1,300 and that's one spool of wire less than actually required. It also doesn't cover the cost of the plastic for the coil holders and rotor, the shaft, the bearings, the metal for the frame, the machine work (which I got for free on the last two machines), the drive motor and its mount, which was built at a metals shop to fit this machine, and probably a bunch of other things I am forgetting. I would say a minimum of $2,000. And this will be the 17th or 18th machine I have assembled. There have been so many I am losing track. Not all of them were this pricy, but none of them were cheap. I didn't spend in excess of $30,000 over the last 12 years to end up with a pile of junk that doesn't perform exactly the way I say it does. And the others who are now involved wouldn't be, if they hadn't seen the machine actually doing what I claim it does.

By the way, I don't know if I shared this recently, but a TWO coil machine using this core material with this rotor would be COP> 1 and you could prove this to yourself. You wouldn't even need the opposition magnets on the rotor because only a couple coils doesn't get you far into the negative exponential curve that occurs from adding coils, and the weight of the magnets once the machine is rotating go a long way for making up for it. Just a thought. You MUST have neutral coils though. MUST.

If you watch the video I posted on bystanders thread https://youtube.com/watch?v=IwDvbgTPCzg&feature=share you will see that the rotor will spin at the required speed on 4 amps and you only need 26 volts, not 36. So that is 104 watts input. A single coil is 270 volts at .7 amps or 189 watts. COP>1 with just one coil, even if the amp draw went up just a bit with the addition of 1 coil, and with two it would be significant. As long as you have neutral coils under load. All these OUTPUT numbers are 12 magnet N/S rotor, remember. My NEW rotor is 24 magnet N/S. The rotor on Black Beauty in the video is 22 magnet all north facing. So kinda comparing apples to pineapples. They are both apples after all.

I'm sure that with 12 coils in the NEW machine even when they are adjusted for magnet neutralization, my input will be more than the 104 watts input shown in the video at 4 amps, but I have no idea HOW much more. Only time will tell. I have seen it as low as 7 amps. I have seen it as high as 12 amps on the old clunker. I have hopes it will be at the lower end. It is my hope that ACCURATE ADJUSTMENT will allow the lower number.

[BroMikey]

What could go wrong?
bi

Hey don't you have a thread to mess up?You love to goat a fight. Just keep on, menace.

Dave, thanks for the update on how it all is coming together and what your thoughts are. Yes that is true on frequency or more magnets giving you a little more. I can hardly wait to see the 1 finger model up and taking readings. It is going to make your old machine that ran 3X OU look like a Model T. plus it will run non stop. looping should be doable in a variety of ways.That demo will blow the minds.

A special thx to all of Dave's helpers. You will not out give dave.

[bistander]

I fully intend to loop this system. There is NO better demonstration than flipping a switch and having the machine run itself.

When the electrical engineer came to the garage a week ago, one of the things that impressed him was that we were running a 120 volt DC Pac Sci motor off the output of one coil. He could see the volts and amps going into the Pac Sci motor (182 watts) and the volts and amps going into the drive motor (189 watts). Not really a FAIR comparison because the Pac Sci motor was not under load like the drive motor is, but it shows what is possible. And then we showed him that the generator running the Pac Sci motor had to have a crescent wrench put on the shaft nut to rotate the shaft from one magnet to the next with only ONE coil in the machine, but Black Beauty rotates using ONE FINGER with 12 coils in it. So how many amps will it take to run the NEW machine? I have no clue. The old one when adjusted with 12 coils in it drew 12 amps and required 36 volts to get it to the right speed. Right now we have basically locked the adjustments in place to work with only ONE COIL for testing and it is only taking 26 volts at 7 amps. Thing is, it takes just about the SAME with NO coils in place because the drive shaft is binding somewhere. So none of the numbers we are getting are for real until the new machine is up and running. Then we will see. But everything we understand about how this works makes us very happy.

There are still things to explore. The 3/4 x 3/4 magnets my be providing far MORE flux than the core can absorb. What happens to output when the magnets are reduced to 1/2" in diameter x 3/4 thick or 3/8" diameter? If the smaller magnet produces enough flux to fill the core, the NUMBER of magnets on the rotor could be two or three times as many, which I believe would contribute to a higher output. I can't promise that, but it is logical. So my next step would be ordering MORE magnets and building two MORE test rotors. But I'm not going to do that. Once this thing is up and running, I am DONE with it. I have other projects to work on. I WILL be building a unit large enough to power my home in the time of emergency, but that won't be for the public. I still have a few simple tricks up my sleeve to increase power output that I have learned along the way and are not needed to show proof of concept or back up my claims.

What could go wrong?
bi

[Turion]

I fully intend to loop this system. There is NO better demonstration than flipping a switch and having the machine run itself.

When the electrical engineer came to the garage a week ago, one of the things that impressed him was that we were running a 120 volt DC Pac Sci motor off the output of one coil. He could see the volts and amps going into the Pac Sci motor (182 watts) and the volts and amps going into the drive motor (189 watts). Not really a FAIR comparison because the Pac Sci motor was not under load like the drive motor is, but it shows what is possible. And then we showed him that the generator running the Pac Sci motor had to have a crescent wrench put on the shaft nut to rotate the shaft from one magnet to the next with only ONE coil in the machine, but Black Beauty rotates using ONE FINGER with 12 coils in it. So how many amps will it take to run the NEW machine? I have no clue. The old one when adjusted with 12 coils in it drew 12 amps and required 36 volts to get it to the right speed. Right now we have basically locked the adjustments in place to work with only ONE COIL for testing and it is only taking 26 volts at 7 amps. Thing is, it takes just about the SAME with NO coils in place because the drive shaft is binding somewhere. So none of the numbers we are getting are for real until the new machine is up and running. Then we will see. But everything we understand about how this works makes us very happy.

There are still things to explore. The 3/4 x 3/4 magnets my be providing far MORE flux than the core can absorb. What happens to output when the magnets are reduced to 1/2" in diameter x 3/4 thick or 3/8" diameter? If the smaller magnet produces enough flux to fill the core, the NUMBER of magnets on the rotor could be two or three times as many, which I believe would contribute to a higher output. I can't promise that, but it is logical. So my next step would be ordering MORE magnets and building two MORE test rotors. But I'm not going to do that. Once this thing is up and running, I am DONE with it. I have other projects to work on. I WILL be building a unit large enough to power my home in the time of emergency, but that won't be for the public. I still have a few simple tricks up my sleeve to increase power output that I have learned along the way and are not needed to show proof of concept or back up my claims.

[BroMikey]

Great to see you back and well T. Looking forward.

Yes it is great that Dave let us all know why he fudged the conference. The core material project was not what he wanted but was very very close at the time. I don't think people like Dave and myself, who have so much faith and perception about energy can stand to bare the constant name calling as our reason to be here is to share openly. Dave has done this for decades and for years the moles and squirrels have tried to bring their mangy lifestyle and traits into the mix on a level of the beast.

No brotherly kindness and no benefit of the doubt, no consideration, no understanding of the process or the time the evolution takes to bring about a practical model for sale. Sure the project has produced the OU effect for over a decade but refinements continue. At this point the core material has been improved. Of course the factory processes over time will probably double the output and shrink the units size.

We have spent years out of our lives throwing this ball back and forth to get the message out there that science as it stands has lied to the people. This is irritating to the dumbed down university minds so as a consequence we have not only had to put up with the name calling but also the repeated calls for proof while in the mist of innovating a new testing improvement all at the same time.

Needless to say only a handful of antagonist respond while the rest either set wondering or do not understand at all. However over the years good men in the background have taken up for us and believed what was shared. This is the wonderful portion of our work bouncing the ball back and forth while improvements were made. Good men have given thousands of hours and dollars to this work simply on the basis of Dave's half baked mechanical efforts.

You guys know who you are and you are awesome dudes. Any production at the factory level requires both the invention and also the mechanical dept. to work together and bring about a model that is practical. The inventor often does not possess all talents needed to say produce an automobile or a washing machine and no one should expect that. Each area of expertise will take an entire lifetime to achieve.

While the inventor has the vision the mechanic can show you what is needed to preform the task over a period of years when under a full load. At the factory the coil winding or core production does not take place at the assembly workers station. Each component must be developed and authorized by the inventor and then requests are made for professionals to do the component work.

What people in general fail to see is that they are demanding all of the processes from a single person, in a short period and proceed to get angry when everything needed to make a practical unit looped, with all of it's data in not dropped into their laps. The proprietary side of development takes decades to refine.