Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

You can always check McMaster for any hardware you need: www.mcmaster.com

They have 1/4-20 6in: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/lengt...d-size~1-4-20/
They have 1/4-28 6in: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/lengt...d-size~1-4-28/

Thx I checked there but the bolts need to be threaded all of the way down the stock, also I think Dave might be using a beveled head to fit those inset magnets. That part is unclear and harder to find if true. Also remember that the material 18-8 stainless is magnetic I am pretty sure. We are looking for non magnetic stainless say 304 or 316. Picky picky I know, can be a pain.

Okay I am back, according to the internet chatter of EE's they say 18-8 is 304 but when I went to the hardware their 18-8 stuck to a magnet. I would like to know so the 1/4-28 could be used but Dave says he thinks the 1/4-20 will work. Let's hope so.

Here I found the answer. Standard and Non standard ss, sly dogs. These guys are honest

https://www.theworldmaterial.com/wha...ainless-steel/

What is 18/8 Stainless Steel


18/8 stainless steel refers to the chemical composition of stainless steel containing 18% chromium (Cr) and 8% nickel (Ni). Standard 18-8 stainless steel includes SS 304, 304L, 304N, 304LN, 304H, non-standard 18-8 grade includes AISI 301, 302, 301L, 301LN, 302B, etc. 18/8 steel is the most widely used material, has excellent corrosion resistance in mild environments, and has good weldability and mechanical properties.

[pmgriphone]

One of my friends up in Sacramento texted me to say he found the bolts I need at the Fastenal there. The one here didn't have any that long. So Saturday I drive up there to pick up treasure:
12 of the 1/4 20 x 6" stainless machine screws. (They also bought these.) TWICE the cost of Amazon, and too late to cancel my Amazon order.
There may be some other odds and ends I need, but the local hardware store will have those.
So late Saturday I can start putting this thing back together, and maybe Sunday I can try to loop it with two coils. I'm excited to try that.

Things are moving forward.

You can always check McMaster for any hardware you need: www.mcmaster.com

They have 1/4-20 6in: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/lengt...d-size~1-4-20/
They have 1/4-28 6in: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/lengt...d-size~1-4-28/

[BroMikey]

My old rattle trap machine

I will probably just put it on the shelf since it was the FIRST model that incorporated the magnetic neutralization. A collectors item.

That's it save it to look back on. Of course I am sure you had time to compare your all thread to a real shaft? Once you see and compare long enough you realize how valuable your guys are that work on the mechanical side. I say the new shaft is gorgeous. Whoever it was, spent most of his life as a mechanical wiz. He sized the hub and shaft plus the stepping down on a lathe. I'll bet those bearings are pretty good also compared to the old days. Oh you spend a few bucks more per part for what looks like over kill until you get all of that weight on it, singing up to 5000rpm's without sounding like an IROC Z coming out of a turn.

Still your rig worked long enough to prove beyond a doubt that anything is possible if you just try. What tickles me is how all of those in the back ground picked up on the need for improvements and then showed us their version. Working together is priceless.Follow the music I always say and when she sings that nicely you have a winner.

[Turion]

One of my friends up in Sacramento texted me to say he found the bolts I need at the Fastenal there. The one here didn't have any that long. So Saturday I drive up there to pick up treasure:

4 more completed coils, giving me 6. (I am dropping off the last four to have cores put in them and they will have all 6 that need cores.)
5 AC volt meters that go up to 300 volts ( My friends purchased them)
Ten 200 watt light bulbs so I can put groups of two in series to deal with the higher voltage. That will take some drilling holes and running wires, but not too much delay. (They purchased these too.)
12 of the 1/4 20 x 6" stainless machine screws. (They also bought these.) TWICE the cost of Amazon, and too late to cancel my Amazon order.
There may be some other odds and ends I need, but the local hardware store will have those.
So late Saturday I can start putting this thing back together, and maybe Sunday I can try to loop it with two coils. I'm excited to try that.

Things are moving forward.

[Turion]

My old rattle trap machine had adjustments that had about an 1/8 of an inch of play in them regardless of how you adjusted the tuning bolt. That was one of its MAJOR problems and THE reason I needed to build a new machine. That one could be disassembled and retrofitted to fix the tuning problem, but it only had a 12 coil rotor. It used a piece of all thread for the rotor shaft. Lots of OTHER issues that were eliminated with the new build. I will probably just put it on the shelf since it was the FIRST model that incorporated the magnetic neutralization. A collectors item. All the previous models just had speed up under load coils, which is why I burnt up so many motors, and they all got disassembled for parts and junked.

[BroMikey]

I ran across major problems as I was putting the generator together today that I can overcome, but as usual, it takes time.

1. I need twelve 1/4 20 stainless (non-magnetic if possible) machine screws 6" long to use to adjust the opposition magnets on the stator.

Are you sure a 20 threads per inch is fine enough? Remember what you said last time? You needed a finer thread? Hope it works. You have a lot to keep your focus on. Pay no atten to the monkey moving the goalpost.

[Turion]

You cannot see the effects with one coil. It takes a real rotor with multiple coils, and then you realize that every coil added causes an EXPONENTIAL increase in amp draw OR an exponential DECREASE in motor RPM. One or the other. Choose your poison.
1. INCREASED AMP DRAW AFFECTS THE TOTAL INPUT TO THE SYSTEM.
2. DECREASED RPM AFFECTS THE TOTAL OUTPUT OF THE GENERATOR COILS

But bi has declared that I don't know what I am talking about and magnetic neutralization has NO effect on the performance of the system. He is just WRONG. And always will be. He says he did the experiment. Where is the video to prove it? I have SHOWN my videos because he never takes my word for anything. Where is his? Let's see the 7th grade science experiment you did bi. We can't wait! I did a series of THREE videos with the old clunker machine. One showing it running with NO coils (and their cores) in it. One with about 7 coils (and their cores) and no magnetic adjustment, drawing MASSIVE AMPS. And one where it was all adjusted with all 12 coils (and their cores) in it drawing 12 amps, and we eventually got it down to 7 amps.

I ran across major problems as I was putting the generator together today that I can overcome, but as usual, it takes time.

1. I need twelve 1/4 20 stainless (non-magnetic if possible) machine screws 6" long to use to adjust the opposition magnets on the stator. I assumed I could get them at Lowes. They have nothing over 4" and neither does anyone else in our small town. So they are on order from Amazon and won't be here until Tuesday. This was a change in the way the magnets are adjusted from Black Beauty that won't allow the adjustment magnets to come in contact with the rotor NO MATTER WHAT, which makes me a happy camper. But I didn't realize that getting the required length machine screws would be such a problem.

2. I wasn't really thinking about my test board until I mounted it back on the cart I build the motor on today. I needed a BREAK from winding coils. I noticed that my gauges only go up to 150 volts AC, because my previous coils (with cores) only put out 120-130 volts and that's all I needed. But these new coils (with cores) put out 270 volts, so the meters won't give accurate information. That means I need all new meters. They are on the way.

3. I was using one 300 watt bulb per coil (with cores) pair as my test load, and they were getting a bit over rated input, but they did fine. Now the new coils (with cores) will be outputting 400+ watts, so I need to find some 400 watt bulbs, or put a couple 200 watt bulbs in series. As you can see from the picture, my board is not set up for that. So I will be dealing with that tonight and tomorrow, either ordering some larger bulbs if I can find them on Amazon, or ordering the holders to wire two 200 watt bulbs in series. One way or another.

This machine will be TESTED when I have it back together. Not before. I never said that Monday was a "do or die testing date." I was hoping to have everything back together then, but I will have it all together when it is all together, and then it will be tested. Or maybe NOT. I am trying to figure out how to use two coil outputs to make it self run. If I can do that, no reason to have it tested is there? Oh, except bi will never believe it. But I don't really CARE about that anyway. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. And if I can do a self runner demo for the folks I am working with, that will be good enough. And it will save me $700.00.

Oh, and by the way. I NEVER said adding a coil (or a core) to the generator turning at speed causes cogging now did I? Show me where I said that. You can't. Just another example of you attempting to put words in my mouth.

Bad gauge.jpeg Light Board.jpeg

[BroMikey]

what I say is true and your impressions are erroneous.

I built a test fixture and confirmed it.

You weren't interested.

Now you lie about it. Just forget about it and use your rebuilt black ugly and prove your case.

Your lab test date of Monday is missed two days ago.

And BTW, adding a core to the machine while the magnet rotor is spinning causes core loss (not cogging) just like I have always claimed

Cogging is not a loss mechanism. Core loss obviously is.

You still can't relate Sir Newton's to the physical apparatus, can you?

yes BYE we understand the conventional arguments with the 200 year old pinup Professors, much like today is the same. If so and so says it you must be wrong.

Because the test data has not been released to you then you think it does not exist? You would not understand what lab documents say, if you can not follow the 7th grade stuff.

The fact remains that "AT SPEED" core cogging does not exist is a lie, it does drag down the drive motor as you have been shown. You have claimed we are liars and frauds for 6 years and no mater what test is released you quickly reword demanding yet another test proof.

You have no desire to help, you do not care about the guys here, you hate us all. Your entire goal is to poison every conversation. This is why you are here.

Your rotor sucks, wood with hot glue, here is a rotor costing big dollars. Where is you test rig BYE? You don't have a comparable rotor and you know it.

[BroMikey]

I got the two coils I dropped off the other day to have the new core material put in. I traded the six coils I wound yesterday for them. They should have the cores in those six coils in the next couple days, while I wind the last four coils. They also brought me the new rotor, and I got it mounted to the shaft and all the magnets put in.

And bi, I won’t waste another second arguing with you. You’re not worth my time.

I told you that Bye would quickly demand another proof while he sets BYE and does nothing but play the Menace.

I think BYE should be proud of you and your efforts, instead he hates everything you do.

What a beauty this rotor is.

[Turion]

I got the two coils I dropped off the other day to have the new core material put in. I traded the six coils I wound yesterday for them. They should have the cores in those six coils in the next couple days, while I wind the last four coils. They also brought me the new rotor, and I got it mounted to the shaft and all the magnets put in.

And bi, I won’t waste another second arguing with you. You’re not worth my time.

[bistander]

As I recall, adding the magnet WAS the 7th grade science experiment, and I asked YOU to do it. I have done it a million times. It is the basis for HALF my claims. So I know EXACTLY what happens. The motor is BARELY affected in any way no matter how many coils and their cores are added as long as they are neutralized. And I can spin a rotor with 24 magnets on it in a machine with 12 coils, and it only takes one finger to do it. Simple.

The record of what I said (claimed) is there. I've been through it multiple times with you and you purposely conflate and confuse what I say and refuse to do the simple procedure which demonstrated explicitly what I say is true and your impressions are erroneous. I built a test fixture and confirmed it. You weren't interested. Now you lie about it. Just forget about it and use your rebuilt black ugly and prove your case. Your lab test date of Monday is missed two days ago. Perhaps you can get an actual test yet this week and show everyone instead of making up lies about me.

And BTW, adding a core to the machine while the magnet rotor is spinning causes core loss (not cogging) just like I have always claimed beginning back when you called me Mr. Potato Head, remember that? I explained then, using Eddy current brake as an example. Your neutralization schemes reduce cogging, not core loss. Cogging is not a loss mechanism. Core loss obviously is. You still can't relate Sir Newton's to the physical apparatus, can you?

Please don't argue with me now, just show us the test.
bi

[Turion]

As I recall, adding the magnet WAS the 7th grade science experiment, and I asked YOU to do it. I have done it a million times. It is the basis for HALF my claims. So I know EXACTLY what happens. The motor is BARELY affected in any way no matter how many coils and their cores are added as long as they are neutralized. And I can spin a rotor with 24 magnets on it in a machine with 12 coils, and it only takes one finger to do it. Simple.

[bistander]

Did ByeSlammer say sorry? Did Bye thank Dave for showing him where he was wrong or thank Dave for the thousands of dollars it takes to test ideas? No, Bye is hiding in shadows embarrassed. years now Dave has been called everything except a white boy. Where is Bye now? Is Bye going to vindicate Dave? Is Bye going to admit Dave was right all these years and that he was wrong? Of course not. So what else is news?

I replied to Turion's video post. See below.

I was not wrong about anything. You just post lies about me. You make a claim; show my quote where I claimed something wrong. Can't, can you?
bi

I'm kinda busy at this time but did a quick read and view of the video. Still couldn't do the 7th grade science experiment, could you. You're afraid of that. And I see you inserting a core, not a coil. Still having trouble telling those apart, aren't you. The behavior shown in the video of the speed reduction when the core is inserted while the motor supply is current limited is entirely consistent with an increase in core loss due to the added core. Just like I've said. If you had added your anti cogging magnet like I asked, you'd seen that it did not reduce the core loss (or the additional load caused by that core loss). Too bad you didn't try that. You could have learned something.

...
bi

[BroMikey]

It's kind of like saying "Did you see my new shoes (with feet in them)?

Maybe it will be Son of Black Beauty. or SOBB. Perfect name. Because it will make bistander cry.

Yup the shoe just dropped and all Bye can do is make chicken tracks, son of - a- ......? black beauty

[alexelectric]

Hey Alex

http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...system/page326

thank you, BroMikey, there is much to document and continue learning