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  • BroMikey
    replied
    I am thinking your machinist is making parts and you are sending
    him coils with ferrite cores in them. Or is he winding his own and uses
    iron cores?

    Yes having such a machine operating at the lower rpm would be amazing.



    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Iíll report back .................

    I am very hopeful that simply by increasing the number of strands in
    parallel I can wind even a ferrite core in such a way that it speeds up
    under load. And THAT would be amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Continued

    Most switchmode power supplies, AC to DC, accept wide range of AC voltage input like 80-260 and wide range of frequency from 0 to 400Hz(?). I've seen those for bigger computer equipment and battery chargers in the 7-8 amp DC range at 5 to 48V. Might work.

    Good luck with it.

    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Treadmill motor

    Most treadmill motors I've seen are DCPM commutator types and will not run on AC.

    Risking being blamed when your loop fails, to convert AC to DC, use a bridge rectifier (fwbr) and filter capacitor. To adjust voltage, use a transformer (or variac) on AC side, or DC/DC converter on DC side.

    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • Sawt2
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Ok, now is the time for all the folks who seem to think they know everything to actually CONTRIBUTE instead of just running their mouths, if there ARE any who actually have a clue. This machine is easily putting out enough power to run itself, but how to make that happen. Itís running on a 36 volt dc motor or I have a 110 volt DC treadmill motor that ran off AC input using some kind of controller. I also have a small AC motor. The output of a coil is 130 volts AC at 1.5 amps. I see NO solution that doesnít involve running an inverter on a battery, or running straight off the battery. Either way, a battery is involved and whiners will claim it isnít looped.

    Just a thought! If you have a ďuniversal motorĒ they will run off ac or dc. It could be the treadmill motor is that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Looping

    Ok, now is the time for all the folks who seem to think they know everything to actually CONTRIBUTE instead of just running their mouths, if there ARE any who actually have a clue. This machine is easily putting out enough power to run itself, but how to make that happen. It’s running on a 36 volt dc motor or I have a 110 volt DC treadmill motor that ran off AC input using some kind of controller. I also have a small AC motor. The output of a coil is 130 volts AC at 1.5 amps. I see NO solution that doesn’t involve running an inverter on a battery, or running straight off the battery. Either way, a battery is involved and whiners will claim it isn’t looped.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-17-2019, 10:42 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Report

    I called him last night and he had a job to do for the independent lab, so didn’t run the machine on the new batteries. I’ll report back when I have anything worth reporting. I’m going to try and wind a coil today with a ferrite core and get my generator far enough back together to test it.

    But here’s another question his results bring up. If the increased capacitance of the coil allows the motor to see speed up under load at a lower RPM, exactly what does this “increased capacitance” do for the coil output at this lower speed? Might it be the same as at a higher speed? Or close? These are the kinds of questions I had hoped replicators would help me answer. Unfortunately we don’t have any of those on this forum. But at least one person will know the answer to that question. The thing I am MOST excited about is that I’m pretty sure ferrite cores will react much differently than the iron cores. I’ve always had concerns that they might not speed up under load at any speed I could attain with my rotors. But with this dramatic decrease in required RPM that 12 strands has made, I am very hopeful that simply by increasing the number of strands in parallel I can wind even a ferrite core in such a way that it speeds up under load. And THAT would be amazing.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-17-2019, 03:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    This a very good report.
    It might be that by doubling the number of magnets is helping with
    keeping the RPM's down. Or maybe he has 6 strands in series? But one
    thing is sure, with the lower RPM his coil running at 150w each X 2
    falls inline with a reduction in output. But hey if it runs for 5 years
    at the lower speed, rather than doing an overhaul every year it seems
    to me it will be worth it.This is really good news.




    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    While I havenít made much progress getting one of my generators back together for testing, the same cannot be said for my machinist. He wants to go into business manufacturing these machines, so he is a bit more motivated than I am.

    Today he called me to let me know he has the machine up and running. According to him, 10 of the 12 coils measure between 5.2 and 5.6 ohms, and neither speed up nor slow down the motor when put under load. Each pair of coils is running a 300 watt bulb. The other two coils measure around 13 ohms and cause the motor to speed up under load.Why the 13 ohm reading on the coils, I'm not sure, unless they were somehow wound wrong, or old coils I wound accidentally got mixed in with the new ones. The machine is running at 1150 rpm. (something wrong with that number, but I am not there, so I can only report what he tells me.) which, if true, is good news as the 12 strand coil lowered the required rpm to get delayed Lenz from 2800 to 1150.

    He hasnít given me any input numbers, and running on 24 volts the rpm should be higher. Around 2800, so either his batteries are really weak, or the motor is struggling, which would mean it is drawing more amps. But running 5 of the 300 watt bulbs is enough to bring that motor to a dead stop, so at least SOMETHING is going right. He is going to shoot some video and post it on you tube, but he has to get some help to do that as he knows nothing about YouTube or even much about how to take a video with his phone.

    Several other things I should mention...He is buying new batteries and will run it with them tomorrow. That should give me some idea of the ďrealĒ rpm itís achieving. Also, a friend of his that works at an independent testing lab we have used to test the machine in the past is going to help him hook up an AC motor to the generator output to see if the coils can run the motor and how many it takes to get the required RPM. If they can figure it out, they are going to set it up to run the AC motor from the wall and then throw a double pole double throw switch to change over to coil power. Once they get some of these things figured out I will probably drive the four hours down there to shoot some video. I want to see if they can figure out the weird stuff first. That low RPM bothers me. Somehow I think they will have to wind those two weird coils to output a lower voltage AC, convert that to DC and run an inverter, and then run the AC motor on the inverter. 60 Hz. Or maybe that guy knows of a way to convert whatever frequency the AC coils are putting out to 60 Hz. That would be best. P*N/120=f

    Edit:
    The more I think about it the more convinced I am it is just weak batteries. He can spin the rotor with just two fingers, so it canít be amp draw of the motor slowing it down. By the end of the day I should know for sure. We might also have to rewind those two coils that have the weird ohm reading. I also canít imagine he is getting those lights to light up at full brightness at half the normal RPM, but we will see.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-17-2019, 12:27 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    hello teacher Dave
    I agree with everything you have stated here. What a good reminder it is.
    The other thing I need to mention about Cone heads genny is that he uses
    the muller staggering so he is showing no magnetic lock.

    But you are correct on this post for our builds. I have been giving serious
    thought to diameter of shafts and bearing to handle such a massive
    rotor that will act as a flywheel. I am sure you love your new rotor and
    are speaking from experience. Very exciting confirmation indeed.

    Also it is evident by your getting no sleep till you finish the details
    properly that this work is your first love. I quite agree and am continually
    pondering my next move. I won't tell your wife, your secret is safe.

    You should see the way my wife acts when I am studying, she knows it is
    like I am in another world where sounds have no meaning.

    The other thing I am looking forward to is the "C" core effects and will
    report back. It seems to me that something special should occur.

    Don't drink and drive, better yet don't drink during the season for your
    health, I for one want to see you survive.




    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Bro Mikey,

    If you look at my early videos and pictures of my generator, I started with rotors at both ends of the coils. I no longer do that for a reason. It APPEARS that the flux in the core, And therefore the generated power, has a direct relationship to the MASS of the passing magnet with all other factors being the same. So which do you think will provide you with more power. A single coil with small magnets passing by both ends, or TWO coils with a magnet that is TWICE as thick passing between them? Thats why I changed my design. I could get twice as many coils on the rotor with the new design. And twice as much generated power. We learn from building, not watching YouTube videos where we are lied to about everything. Until you try BOTH ways you donít know anything for sure.

    According to what you posted his machine has 8 coils but 1/3 are used as motor and 2/3 as generator. Those numbers make no sense. You need multiples of 3 if you are talking about thirds, or a coil will be part motor and part generator. But letís compare anyway. My big generator puts out 130 volts at 1.5 amps per coil or 195 watts. If I use 1/3 of my coils as motor coils I give up (130x 1.5)x 4= 780 watts of generated power. A STOCK razor scooter motor running on 12 amps at 24 volts costs me only 288 watts. Why give up the difference, which is almost 500 watts?

    If you want to do it that way. Let each coil act as a generator coil except for a split second at Top Dead Center when it is fired as a motor coil. All coils generate. All coils act as motor for a split second. i built a circuit that did that and it worked great. You just had to spin the generator by hand to start it. Matt designed that circuit. if I had designed it, nothing would have run.

    Oh, and if you havenít cancelled out all the magnetic drag, you CANíT spin it by hand anyway. LOL

    Edit: I wanted to add a couple more things that I thought about in the middle of the night tonight and couldn't get back to sleep until I got up and added. Your rotor core can only accept a SPECIFIC amount of flux as the magnet goes past, which is determined by the mass of that core and its composition and (possibly) rotor speed. (You COULD turn too fast for saturation of the core, but not likely.) Depending on the mass of the core, you could put a magnet the size of a dime or a magnet the size of a car tire, get the SAME generated output. Until you have built MULTIPLE rotors and tried different sizes and thicknesses of magnets you have NO IDEA what the optimal size of magnet is for your particular size and composition of core. If you are going to build a GOOD rotor I would go here https://www.eplastics.com/sheets/ace...stitem17/3.000 and take a look at a sheet two or three inches thick. This allows you to use LONG 3/4 diameter magnets in your rotor, which means a lot of them. Your rotor is THICK so it won't flex, because Neo magnets will cause a thin rotor to flex badly. You drill holes in from each side of the rotor and leave a thin wall of material between the two magnets so they are attracted to each other through the material. You will never get them OUT without destroying the rotor, but they won't fly out either. For a 3/4 by 3" iron rotor core your magnets should be 3/4 in diameter and as long as you can get them so the rotor can be as thick as possible. Order your rotor material to fit your magnets, not the other way around. You have to balance overkill on mass of magnets against having a rotor that won't flex. I choose to get the magnets that are longer than I need (more mass) so the rotor can be as thick as possible. But that's just me. And then you want as short a distance between your bearings as possible and as large a diameter shaft as possible. All to keep that rotor perfectly vertical. Why is that so important. The closer the magnet is to the rotor the more the flux in the core is increased and the increase is exponential. And the less flex in the rotor, the less it pulls and pushes on the shaft which pushes and pulls on the motor and causes heat.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Update

    While I haven’t made much progress getting one of my generators back together for testing, the same cannot be said for my machinist. He wants to go into business manufacturing these machines, so he is a bit more motivated than I am.

    Today he called me to let me know he has the machine up and running. According to him, 10 of the 12 coils measure between 5.2 and 5.6 ohms, and neither speed up nor slow down the motor when put under load. Each pair of coils is running a 300 watt bulb. The other two coils measure around 13 ohms and cause the motor to speed up under load.Why the 13 ohm reading on the coils, I'm not sure, unless they were somehow wound wrong, or old coils I wound accidentally got mixed in with the new ones. The machine is running at 1150 rpm. (something wrong with that number, but I am not there, so I can only report what he tells me.) which, if true, is good news as the 12 strand coil lowered the required rpm to get delayed Lenz from 2800 to 1150.

    He hasn’t given me any input numbers, and running on 24 volts the rpm should be higher. Around 2800, so either his batteries are really weak, or the motor is struggling, which would mean it is drawing more amps. But running 5 of the 300 watt bulbs is enough to bring that motor to a dead stop, so at least SOMETHING is going right. He is going to shoot some video and post it on you tube, but he has to get some help to do that as he knows nothing about YouTube or even much about how to take a video with his phone.

    Several other things I should mention...He is buying new batteries and will run it with them tomorrow. That should give me some idea of the “real” rpm it’s achieving. Also, a friend of his that works at an independent testing lab we have used to test the machine in the past is going to help him hook up an AC motor to the generator output to see if the coils can run the motor and how many it takes to get the required RPM. If they can figure it out, they are going to set it up to run the AC motor from the wall and then throw a double pole double throw switch to change over to coil power. Once they get some of these things figured out I will probably drive the four hours down there to shoot some video. I want to see if they can figure out the weird stuff first. That low RPM bothers me. Somehow I think they will have to wind those two weird coils to output a lower voltage AC, convert that to DC and run an inverter, and then run the AC motor on the inverter. 60 Hz. Or maybe that guy knows of a way to convert whatever frequency the AC coils are putting out to 60 Hz. That would be best. P*N/120=f

    Edit:
    The more I think about it the more convinced I am it is just weak batteries. He can spin the rotor with just two fingers, so it can’t be amp draw of the motor slowing it down. By the end of the day I should know for sure. We might also have to rewind those two coils that have the weird ohm reading. I also can’t imagine he is getting those lights to light up at full brightness at half the normal RPM, but we will see.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-17-2019, 05:10 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Belarus Doug K info

    Bro Mikey,

    If you look at my early videos and pictures of my generator, I started with rotors at both ends of the coils. I no longer do that for a reason. It APPEARS that the flux in the core, And therefore the generated power, has a direct relationship to the MASS of the passing magnet with all other factors being the same. So which do you think will provide you with more power. A single coil with small magnets passing by both ends, or TWO coils with a magnet that is TWICE as thick passing between them? Thats why I changed my design. I could get twice as many coils on the rotor with the new design. And twice as much generated power. We learn from building, not watching YouTube videos where we are lied to about everything. Until you try BOTH ways you don’t know anything for sure.

    According to what you posted his machine has 8 coils but 1/3 are used as motor and 2/3 as generator. Those numbers make no sense. You need multiples of 3 if you are talking about thirds, or a coil will be part motor and part generator. But let’s compare anyway. My big generator puts out 130 volts at 1.5 amps per coil or 195 watts. If I use 1/3 of my coils as motor coils I give up (130x 1.5)x 4= 780 watts of generated power. A STOCK razor scooter motor running on 12 amps at 24 volts costs me only 288 watts. Why give up the difference, which is almost 500 watts?

    If you want to do it that way. Let each coil act as a generator coil except for a split second at Top Dead Center when it is fired as a motor coil. All coils generate. All coils act as motor for a split second. i built a circuit that did that and it worked great. You just had to spin the generator by hand to start it. Matt designed that circuit. if I had designed it, nothing would have run.

    Oh, and if you haven’t cancelled out all the magnetic drag, you CAN’T spin it by hand anyway. LOL

    Edit: I wanted to add a couple more things that I thought about in the middle of the night tonight and couldn't get back to sleep until I got up and added. Your rotor core can only accept a SPECIFIC amount of flux as the magnet goes past, which is determined by the mass of that core and its composition and (possibly) rotor speed. (You COULD turn too fast for saturation of the core, but not likely.) Depending on the mass of the core, you could put a magnet the size of a dime or a magnet the size of a car tire, get the SAME generated output. Until you have built MULTIPLE rotors and tried different sizes and thicknesses of magnets you have NO IDEA what the optimal size of magnet is for your particular size and composition of core. If you are going to build a GOOD rotor I would go here https://www.eplastics.com/sheets/ace...stitem17/3.000 and take a look at a sheet two or three inches thick. This allows you to use LONG 3/4 diameter magnets in your rotor, which means a lot of them. Your rotor is THICK so it won't flex, because Neo magnets will cause a thin rotor to flex badly. You drill holes in from each side of the rotor and leave a thin wall of material between the two magnets so they are attracted to each other through the material. You will never get them OUT without destroying the rotor, but they won't fly out either. For a 3/4 by 3" iron rotor core your magnets should be 3/4 in diameter and as long as you can get them so the rotor can be as thick as possible. Order your rotor material to fit your magnets, not the other way around. You have to balance overkill on mass of magnets against having a rotor that won't flex. I choose to get the magnets that are longer than I need (more mass) so the rotor can be as thick as possible. But that's just me. And then you want as short a distance between your bearings as possible and as large a diameter shaft as possible. All to keep that rotor perfectly vertical. Why is that so important. The closer the magnet is to the rotor the more the flux in the core is increased and the increase is exponential. And the less flex in the rotor, the less it pulls and pushes on the shaft which pushes and pulls on the motor and causes heat.
    Last edited by Turion; 12-07-2019, 01:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Live from Belarus Doug K. is improving his Muller design.

    [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAqB0SlxnrA[/VIDEO]

    8 coils with ferrite cores sandwiched between two rotors, and each rotor
    has 16 all facing nortb 2mm x 20mm size grade 52 strong neodymium magnets.
    1/3 of coresvwrapped with motor winds that spin the rotor when pulsed,
    2/3 are induced pickup winds that create power as it runs.
    Beauty of this design is both core ends push or pull against two magnets
    at once for double the rotational power and also itbhas double the
    generated power from magnet the sweep past the pickup/induced
    generator winds and cores.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 12-05-2019, 11:02 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Rakarskiy View Post
    [VIDEO]watch?time_continue=1&v=b42B_E0mOwc&feature=emb_lo go[/VIDEO]

    Detailed scheme

    https://visionblue.wordpress.com/tag/torsten-schauer/
    Good video

    Leave a comment:


  • Rakarskiy
    replied
    [VIDEO]watch?time_continue=1&v=b42B_E0mOwc&feature=emb_lo go[/VIDEO]

    Detailed scheme

    https://visionblue.wordpress.com/tag/torsten-schauer/
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Rakarskiy
    replied
    Interesting toy! In the simulator, the circuit has no power supply, only ground. Press the ground button and connect to the circuit. Wait a few seconds and turn it off. The circuit will have unreal voltage potential and fantastic currents.

    http://tinyurl.com/wy3nhrf

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    This is the spirit of a true inventor, working tirelessly willing
    to show results that took him 30 years to do. Professionally built
    machine. The stator windings appear to be close to the rotor
    magnet where normally steel is.

    Then he used induction coils.

    Leave a comment:

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