Bedini Earth Light

[b_rads]

Glad you enjoyed NickZ

I thought you might enjoy this. This was some testing I did a while back as a precursor to working on fuel cells. I still enjoy making these cells as they are very simple and as you said, the materials are not costly. Remember the fuel cell requires fuel, electrolyte, and an oxidant. You can use different metals as the electrodes for the voltage potential as long as you coat them with a conductive protective covering. @Allwest found the conductive grease to be good and there are other things as well such as acrylic binder, etc,. Conduct the party between the electrodes and simply replace the bath - simple household chemicals can do the trick. Anyway, I have bored the group long enough with this. When I can determine my waste bath is nontoxic, I will post results in a different thread.
Happy Experimenting

Brad S

PS - I hope you are enjoying retirement, in a year from now I will be in the same situation having completed 30 years service.

[NickZ]

Brad: Wow, 100 plus mAs. That's great, and higher than the 75 mA that I got from a single cell yesterday.
I haven't had that much luck placing the cells is parallel, as each cell that I add only adds a little more power. But that is how I connect them any way, in parallel. I only get 0.6- 0.8 volts from each cell, but it is the mA that are important, not the voltage.
SeaMonkey has also suggested that I try other electrolytes like ammonium sulfate, or ammonium chloride (sal ammoniac), or even ammonium nitrate in my mix. So, there's plenty of things to tests.
Good thing I got some time on my hands...as I'm retired (not by choice).

You might want to try a solid thick aluminum sheet in the CD covers, instead of the Al paper, as the electrolytes are going to have a party at the expense of the aluminum paper. I find that adding silica does help to control the oxidation of the aluminum, and adding carbon rods or carbon plates, work better than copper And adding pressure to the cells is very very important also. Especially to carbon cells.
I think that what John said about the oxide layer (of about 1 to 3 %) is normal and desirable. As that is what is protecting things. But the metals have to be thick enough to handle that.

I am having good luck with the activated carbon from water filter elements, as the aquarium charcoal that I can find here is not like what you are using there.
I wish that I could get the Mg as well, but aluminum is cheap and obtainable, even free most of the time. But finding the right aluminum is not that easy, as they don't all work the same, at all.

Brad, thanks for sharing, 100+ mAs is very good. Now you're going to need a new amp meter, that will handle the higher outputs.

NickZ

[b_rads]

For NickZ

@NickZ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q_yIhiKboE

Brad S

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Calcium carbonate

@All: I watched past videos from Chuck h. and he was getting very good results using calcium carbonate in his mix. It's very easy to get. Egg shells are made of 98% calcium carbonate. Worth a try!!

[NickZ]

Thanks for uploading that link to John and Chucks One amp cell. I could not find it, after I had first viewed it a while back. Maybe that cell is one of the reasons that they have not mentioned anything else about it, or anything else lately. One amp? Maybe they're working on the 5 amp one, now, huh John?

I tried the Chili powder that is used on pizzas, but I didn't add the cheese, maybe that's why it didn't work for me. I'll try it again, but what is the calcium chloride, Dry Out product?

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

John C.Bedini

@ Allwest: John and chuck : Crystal battery flooded - YouTube

By the way, good work Allwest it's very appreciated!!! The calcium chloride is a very good ion exchanger. Maybe you found an another piece in this puzzle.

[Allwest]

I am having fun with my chili powder cell, I added some Dry Out product (Calcium chloride) It behaves as a typical ionic halide, and makes the amps go up, the voltage stays the same

The dry out product also absorbs moisture from the air and I never need to add water

The Chili cell gets about 1.45 volts and holds amps around 45Ma, has LED on for about 1.5 weeks

1.Copper
2.chili powder
3.Calcium chloride
4.Magnesium

Note: on a newer cell I added more Calcium chloride and have had the amps up to 175 Ma, holding 125Ma


Another very strange cell-Sodium silicate mixed with sand,
Copper
Mix
Mag

Very low voltage and amps, but when I heat it, the volts go pos and neg, BIG TIME, the amps go up and stay up while the voltage goes neg and pos

Any ideas?

[Allwest]

I'll look for the Borax, but I doubt that I'll find it in the super markets in Costa Rica. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it, if can find it.
The table salt does seam to eventually build up an oxide layer on the aluminum though. But the metals needs to be thick enough to handle it.

A proper de-polarizer that will not consume the electrodes is also important, as no matter what I do, the leds are always a bit dimmer in the morning after running on the cells all night. So, I let them rest during the day so they can recuperate somewhat, and let the hydrogen gas vent.

I'm still planning on trying the MnO2 out of D cell batteries, in my next electrolyte mix, like John had mentioned.

I am using charcoal from water filter elements now, which I pulverize, or cut with a hack saw to the shape that I need. The secret to using carbon is that it needs to be wet, once it first soaks in water overnight, it will work very well. It is cheap to use, as many cells can be made from a single water filter element.
I'll try to find some magnesium, possibly out of the water heaters, so that I can keep up with the rest of the guys, and their One Amp cells.


NickZ

Hi Nick,

Who has a 1 amp cell? The best I made was a half an amp cell that lasted for about 2 days

[NickZ]

My carbon/aluminum 3/4" by 3" cells this morning are up to 75mAs, and not down, but up instead, so something is working. This is the highest reading I've gotten from my cells up to now.
I like the Silica, as it does seam to work well with the aluminum as well as the carbon and table salt mix. I see no oxidation on the aluminum yet, although that does not mean that it's not happening inside the aluminum cell housings.
I've also been trying some stainless steel rod as my positive rail, instead of the carbon rods that I normally use. Although it puts out a bit less output, there is NO oxidation on it, and does not seam affected by the salt, yet, either.
Although my father was a chemical engineer I'm more apt for organics. But, like he said, there are no real organics, as it's all just about chemicals.
Thought that I like electronics, but, well I guess it's time to learn chemistry as well.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Silicate pellets ??

No, I don't use and recommand to use that unless you do well in chemistery. You need to buy a 40% solution of sodium silicate. It's in the most common form available on the internet.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Using Alum (hydrated potassium aluminium sulphate)

If you use alum in your mix, just use a tiny little bit, mix with rochelle salt and heat it. Maybe at an 1:10 ratio. It will work much much better this way.

Hope it helps, Jean.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

@ NickZ: Yes and no. Yes it will eventually combine but the sodium in the sodium silicate will still be present in the mix and you don't want that. If you can find the ALUM and do the aluminium silicate the right way, you dont want to add anymore sodium silicate after that. No more. The potassium in the ALUM and the sodium in the sodium silicate have a tendancy to ''neutralize'' or cancel each other. Its called: sodium/potassium equilibrum. You will find that balance in foods. An another thing to consider here: You say that you use table salt. It's a choride salt of sodium. Chloride will eventually destroy the metals. You don't want that either. The only circumstance you must have sodium is for the ion exchange. Exemple: Rochelle salt is potassium sodium tartrate and it's piezoelectric. Simply because of the complexity of the compound. The sodium and potassium are exchanging their ions in a very rapid rate but only in the presence of physical stress applied to the compound. But the 2 kinds of ions are not attached to each other in this case. Maybe it looks complicated but you need to keep it simple, stupid. Try to stick with copper and aluminium or copper and magnesium if you can. why the copper??? Remember: The diode effect.

[NickZ]

CrystalDM:
Thank you for the suggestion, but there is no Alum to be found here.
Plengo mentioned that when he used Alum that it totally oxydized his carbon/magnesium cells. Others have also noticed that it is hard on metals.
I will try your suggestion, if I can find the Alum somewhere.
I do have a question: Can't the Alum salt be combined with a carbon electrolyte mix along with the silicate pellets, all together. They will then combine with the water that is added, to form something like what you are talking about. Yes, No?

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Making aluminium silicate

Hi NickZ, try this! I havent found anything about this on the internet and imho it's self evident that it would work very well. Find ALUM in the spice section in a grocery store. Its hydrated potassium aluminium sulfate. It's a little bit like if you had magnesium electrode with the magnesium sulfate. All you need is to grow a ''garden'' of aluminium silicate. Put the ALUM crystals in a glass, then take the solution of sodium silicate and pours it into the glass and watch the transformation! You will notice almost instantly some transparent filaments growing upright and it's the new coumpound aluminium silicate. Then mix to complete the reaction and let it rest for a few minutes. Have one another glass half full of hot water and put your new silicate in it. You will notice that it's not soluble in water anymore. Filter the crystals and put the finished product on the stove with little heat to dry.

[NickZ]

I'll look for the Borax, but I doubt that I'll find it in the super markets in Costa Rica. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it, if can find it.
The table salt does seam to eventually build up an oxide layer on the aluminum though. But the metals needs to be thick enough to handle it.

A proper de-polarizer that will not consume the electrodes is also important, as no matter what I do, the leds are always a bit dimmer in the morning after running on the cells all night. So, I let them rest during the day so they can recuperate somewhat, and let the hydrogen gas vent.

I'm still planning on trying the MnO2 out of D cell batteries, in my next electrolyte mix, like John had mentioned.

I am using charcoal from water filter elements now, which I pulverize, or cut with a hack saw to the shape that I need. The secret to using carbon is that it needs to be wet, once it first soaks in water overnight, it will work very well. It is cheap to use, as many cells can be made from a single water filter element.
I'll try to find some magnesium, possibly out of the water heaters, so that I can keep up with the rest of the guys, and their One Amp cells.


NickZ