Bedini Earth Light

[John_Bedini]

The Mix

NextGen1967,
What mix are you talking about here?. 3000 Ohms is real high, so the cell is doing this at room temp. so have you loaded this cell with 3 K resistor and let it stand? Ok got it
John B

[NextGen1967]

NextGen1967,
What mix are you talking about here?. Hook the meter to the cell and select some resistors and just when the voltage starts to fall off you will have the impedance. Then leave that resistor on the cell and watch it, first find the impedance of your mix in the cell. And do you mean C because 29 degrees is real cold and Epsom Salts reacts just like that, cold no power hot power.
John B

John,

Impedance of cell has been determined already and is about 3000 Ohm (circuit is optimized to work at this exact point).

Yes, correct 29 degrees CELCIUS (I did mention Celsius at the start of writing).

Edit more info:

John sorry, info given was a bit lacking...

Mix is Diveflyfish (youtube) one as in 'TAFFY like cell'.

I might have determined the cell impedance in another way then you... (it takes only 10 minutes of *actual* work, but get the -for me at least- accurate reading takes a whole day).

I use a set of resistors and place them one by one on the cell, and measure voltage drop over cell. Using voltage drop value and known resistance, I calculate amps, and with the known amps I calculate the *actual* power produced under that load.

However, since these have such high impedance, it takes a loooooong time to get the 'accurate' reading, and thus I leave the resistor on the cell for at least 2 hours before doing the calculations (during this 2 hours settle time, the voltage might drop or climb a bit still).

In the end using the set of resistors, the one calculated real power production that is the highest, its resistor value match with the cells impedance.
--
Ron.

[John_Bedini]

Your Mix

NextGen1967,
What mix are you talking about here?. Hook the meter to the cell and select some resistors and just when the voltage starts to fall off you will have the impedance. Then leave that resistor on the cell and watch it, first find the impedance of your mix in the cell. And do you mean C because 29 degrees is real cold and Epsom Salts reacts just like that, cold no power hot power.
John B

[NextGen1967]

To continue a bit about my above post...

Suppose we would limit the temp to be reached at -say- 80 degrees. Now when we leave the cell on the plate, voltage would climb even more because rate of flow of water molecules being driven out would be increased due to higher temperature... then when stable 80 degrees is reached, voltage would stable out also at some quite elevated level from base (0.6615v) voltage.

However, when we leave the cell on the hot plate, at *some* point in time, the stable elevated voltage would start do drop suddenly... Why ?

As water molecules are constantly driven off at a stable rate, at some point, the water molecules inside the cell will start to deplete and we see a voltage drop (under load of circuit), because the 'amps' that were driving the circuit are going down due to decreasing water content in the cell that could be in motion.

At some later point, all the water that could be driven out of the cell -at those 80 degrees- will have been driven out, and voltage is now once more at a stable, but very low point, since there is only very little water left in the cell able to be in motion. (when we would disconnect the cell from the circuit at this stage, one would be able to still measure a somewhat normal voltage (open circuit voltage), but when doing an short circuit amps measurement, the amps will be next to nothing.

When taking off the cell from the heat plate, the whole process would revert back again to normal operation (provided the cells inner structure in not changed by the applied heat).

Added Edit: When a cell has -for example- an open voltage of 1.5 volt with some small short circuit amps, and we *really* do a lot of work to dehydrate the cell (silica gel, molecular sieve etc), we would finally be unable to get a voltage reading also on our DMM (or a strongly decreased voltage), due to the simple fact that the DMM itself needs *some* tiny amount of cell current to flow to determine the cell voltage... When the cell is really depleted of nearly all water molecules, there is not enough even to drive the DMM anymore, and we see a decreased voltage reading (an high impedance voltage meter would *still* be able to get the 1.5 volt open reading tough).

--
Ron.

[NextGen1967]

@ Lidmotor and all,

Concerning the gas and voltage climb when warming up the cell, I did a small indication -not very accurate- test.

The cell placed on oscillator is NOT a JB mix cell, but it does show the same effects of voltage climb when heat is applied.

1) Cell was at 0.6615 volt under the load of circuit and at about 29 degrees Celsius.
2) Then placed cell (still connected to circuit) on a warming plate, and made sure the cell was electrically isolated from it (piece of Mylar between cell and plate).
3) While warming the cell, voltage climbed up rapidly.
4) When cell reached 1.0000 volt, the cell was at about 55 degrees and took of the cell from the plate.
5) Allowed to let the cell cool down naturally, and when temperature was back again to 29 degrees, voltage reading of cell was at 0.7111 volt.
6) It took quite some extra time before cell was back as starting voltage again.

In table form:

09:43:00 , 29 degrees , 0.6615 volt
09:50:10 , 55 degrees , 1.0000 volt
10:25:01 , 29 degrees , 0.7111 volt
11:22:36 , 29 degrees , 0.6615 volt

The odd thing in here is, when temp was back to same as starting temp, the cell *should* be back also at starting voltage, but that was not the case...

I *think* that if I allowed the cell to reach -say- 80 degrees, the effect would be even more strongly shown.

A way to give some kind of explanation for this... The cell is cylinder shaped and the top of the cylinder leaves a small area between inner and outer electrode that is NOT sealed of.. The rest of the cylinder is closed.

When heat was applied, clearly water molecules were starting to drive off from the cell because cell became above surrounding temperature, the more warm the cell became, the faster the rate of water molecules being driven off, and this transport could explain increased voltage (voltage also showed an increasing rate of climb). So voltage climb due to water molecules in motion. (water became less -evaporation- and voltage wend up).

Then when the heat source was removed, the cell was dehydrated to more then surrounding humidity...while cooling down, evaporation still continued till temperature was back at surrounding temperature. Voltage dropped wile cooling down due to less rate of flow of evaporation... Rate of drop confirms with rate of temp decline.

When temperature was back at surrounding, base voltage (0.6615v) was increased to 0.7111 volt.. A possible explanation for this *might* be that although temp was back to base, water molecule transport still continue to go on. Only now in the reverse direction... Since the cell is somewhat dehydrated more then surrounding, intake of water molecules from the surrounding is now happening, and water molecules transport might explain the elevated voltage?

Then during the time the cell levels up with surrounding humidity, the voltage is dropping more and more, and also rate of drop declines when reaching more and more near to the starting 0.6615 volt, since the cell become more and more equal to surrounding humidity.

When finally humidity level inside cell is the same as outside humidity, the cell is back to its 0.6615 volt again, and have reached its -somewhat- stable basic operation again.

I think this might be a plausible explanation ?

Added Note: When a cell is highly compressed and uses mixes 'grabbing' a lot of water molecules, this heating effect and elevated voltage at base temperature is strongly amplified due to much more water molecules able to release (E.G. 'pressure' of 'rate of flow would' increase).

--
Ron

[jehdds]

Cells with sand (quartz) definitely works much better. Stands longer times and more current.

Im using a combtnation of 9 carbon, 9 sand, 9 alum and 1 sodium silica dry. This has been my best working formula so far. No cooking. Water to activate and sealed cell.

As Jim is showing in his video, water somehow behave as the "gas". My cells have been designed to have the Mg surrounded with a very pourous material (paper or cotton) where water travels towards the Mg and in doing so electricity is gained.

Mg is kept clean from carbon because of porous material so Alum grows with silica to form crystals.

Fausto.

Guys,
Here is the link:
Ionic Current Demonstration - YouTube
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[plengo]

I created 3 new cells that I called it "flooded" cells. They have the formula I posted above plus on top a layer of sand and on top the Mg surrounded by cotton.

The whole cylinder is soken wet so that the cell is literally under water. I want to see how far up the water will travel with the electrolyte towards the Mg and how much the Mg will corrode.

3 cells creates about 4.6v and run 3 parallel white LEDs with a 4ma current.

Since Mg is surrounded by cotton and is not in touch with the electrolyte and has a layer of sand in between I can affirm that only the ions can travel.

I will keep you posted of the voltage and currents and a few weeks the state of the Mg.

Fausto.

[plengo]

Cells with sand (quartz) definitely works much better. Stands longer times and more current.

Im using a combtnation of 9 carbon, 9 sand, 9 alum and 1 sodium silica dry. This has been my best working formula so far. No cooking. Water to activate and sealed cell.

As Jim is showing in his video, water somehow behave as the "gas". My cells have been designed to have the Mg surrounded with a very pourous material (paper or cotton) where water travels towards the Mg and in doing so electricity is gained.

Mg is kept clean from carbon because of porous material so Alum grows with silica to form crystals.

Fausto.

[MonsieurM]

I just wanted to share with you a way of making your own vacuum forming tool as i read some are testing with cells vacuum sealed

DIY Vacuum molding machine - YouTube

A really easy to build vacuum forming machine. Used a regular bagless cyclone vacuum cleaner, and your oven.

[NextGen1967]

@ Ron:
Thank you for showing your circuit. My apologies for not answering your last PM to me. I have not had a chance to try your suggested circuit out yet, due to work obligations.
Looks like your two coils are working fine at lower current levels. I don't have the long ferrite rods, but I do have some short ones that might work as well. I can obtain voltage (1 to 12 volts) from my dry cells, but not much current, so I'll give that circuit a try sometime.
I'm also really interested in powering a Stiffler PEC type circuit (on one wire). Glad to see what Lidmotor has done with the Slayer type exciter.
It looks like once a strong working circuit is established, that several more receiving coils or chokes can be added, for lighting more leds from the same output, without any additional draw. That is one advantage of that type of circuit. To what extent this can be done, without dropping the leds intensity is not clear to me yet.
NickZ

No problem

The shorter ferrite rods will work fine, just place some turns on it an measure it to be 100uH.. If no meter, I suggest place 39 turns on each, that will be a good ballpark.

If you can't get the circuit to work at all, try switching ONE of the inductors its wires, or maybe turn the LED. (best to try with an 1.5v battery, to see if the circuit works fine on it).

The inductors as in the picture are my old ones, do NOT do it this way... Instead, wrap a piece of paper around the ferrite, and put a small piece of cello tape (E.G, the paper can now slide over the core).. then turn your windings on that paper and when finished, slide the paper -with the coil on it now- to the middle of the ferrite rod.. make both the same way.

Then when place your cell on it, see if you get can it to light continuous by replacing the 1nF capacitor, and by sliding the coils a bit, you can 'optimize' energy usage a bit... you can either give the transistors base a bit more juice -at cost at led power-, or decrease it a bit and give more to the led.... Sliding *both* coils to the same position (little bit off the ferrite) will lower induction and increase Frequency... So play around with the capacitor and coil positions, you will get a 'feeling' of how to tune it more optimally.

As per PM, you can leave out the current limiter pot, and the 2 big capacitors with the sense resistor, I use them to get exact measurements.

P.S the BLACK cap 'attached' to the potmeter in above photo is dummy... haha, the potmeter is a 'Philippines' quality product, thus its zero ohm is not zero but 8 ohm! , so i grabbed first object I saw to short the pot when i don't need its function, and that object happens to be that capacitor.

--
Ron.

[NickZ]

@ Plengo:
I would ask a favor of you... If you could make a cell using ONLY the activated charcoal that you are using. It can be made in a capacitor can, with a carbon rod, copper wire, or 1/4 inch copper tube as the positive rail. The carbon may need to be further pulverized first, and pressed down hard into the cell using as much presure as possible. This is just to see what you get with a totally dry carbon cell. This may still be galvanic, I don't know, but without water and without air (if sealed), I don't see how it could be, as galvanic cells will normally die without oxygen, and these carbon cells don't die.
Thank you in advance,
Nick

[NickZ]

@ Ron:
Thank you for showing your circuit. My apologies for not answering your last PM to me. I have not had a chance to try your suggested circuit out yet, due to work obligations.
Looks like your two coils are working fine at lower current levels. I don't have the long ferrite rods, but I do have some short ones that might work as well. I can obtain voltage (1 to 12 volts) from my dry cells, but not much current, so I'll give that circuit a try sometime.
I'm also really interested in powering a Stiffler PEC type circuit (on one wire). Glad to see what Lidmotor has done with the Slayer type exciter.
It looks like once a strong working circuit is established, that several more receiving coils or chokes can be added, for lighting more leds from the same output, without any additional draw. That is one advantage of that type of circuit. To what extent this can be done, without dropping the leds intensity is not clear to me yet.
NickZ

[NextGen1967]

<snip for brevity>
Are there any updates, improvements or suggestions for the different oscillators circuits, since they were first made and used? Especially in regard to recommendations for use with very low current output cells (less than 1mA)???
<snip>
NickZ

@ NickZ

Circuit runs at 0.6615 volt @ just 221 Micro amps. LED appears more bright then it actually is in the Photo, but for a LED using just 146 Micro Watt, that is not bad at all. Flash frequency is about 93 Hz , thus it appear as continuous to the eye. When it would consume 1.5mA, the brightness would be more of course, but hey, that is a about 7 times more energy.

Circuit is Lidmotor/IB/Diveflyfish Etc type:

Also, the voltage ( 0.6615 volt ) is especially selected, as it is the cells optimal working impedance. The cell + oscillator act kind as a cc & cv -constant current , constant voltage - circuit... The cell isn't going up or down in voltage (Well slightly up and down, but I assume that are temp and humidity factors).



It could be optimized a little more still.

Note added: The led in this circuit is a 5mm type, and normal conditions would be 3.2v @ 20mA (64mW), so this LED is using only 1/438th of is rated power.

--
Ron.

[prato_braun]

Thanks IB

I do high heat, Borax on bottom sprinkle some salt substitute on top of that once it starts bubbling you add alum on top of it all and then insert the electrodes, cook for a couple more seconds. If the bubbling stops or if you get no bubbling then something went wrong. here's another video showing how I do it, step by step, How to make a Dry Crystal Cell Battery that contains no Water - YouTube

If you have anymore problems let me know i'm willing to help as much as i can.

Thanks for pointing me to this video. Will let you guys know once we cooked again

[John_Bedini]

The lurkers

At all,
As the cells get better and start to develop more power we will catch more flack and nasty comments. This is so typical of people that just cant stand any progress, they want you to live in the dark ages. Whatever you do not let them, the lurkers discourage you from anything your working on. It might take some time to work out the devil in the details but the group will get it done if we hang together, they win when they cause division and confusion.
Don't fall for the trap.
John B