Bedini Earth Light

[plengo]

One supporting evidence of my claim above is that when i add water to the test cell with the .08mm tick Mg plate, its voltage and current comes back to the same as day one.

As water is gone power goes down.

Usually, on previous similar tests, the cell lower its power output as the Mg gets corroded.

Fausto.

[NickZ]

Brad:
The Daniell Cell idea was related to me by SeaMonkey, in another forum, and I thought that it would come in handy here, right about now.
The idea is that you use a double electrolyte, with the second one, feeding from the waist gases of the first. Thus the problem of the build up of gases is dealt with to some extent. This was done to avoid a depolariser. But, if we use a depolarizer or not, at least the idea of how the gases need to be removed were known, even then, or there would to be problem with the cells output if that issue was not dealt with.

[cgalvisardila]

Plengo, im gonna try this right now, ive had good results with pyrite myself, just havent tried it this way before... ill let you know how it goes...cheers

[plengo]

Guys, i dont know how express this better. Iron Pyrite simply is magical.

It reversed the corrossion process and allows the cell to love water without loosing any power the opposite.

In the end just add very diluted alum, about 1ml, to the already wet cell for a boost in power.

Please, someone try it.

Fausto.

[b_rads]

@lidmotor:


@NickZ:
A while back I made a gravity battery that is still running and has been terrific fun. Search wikipedia for gravity battery. Also, nurdrage has a very nice video on youtube. It is not necessary to use the zinc sulphate as he shows as the cell will make its own, just takes a little longer. It is extremely cheap to build and quite a workhorse. Here in the US, pennies minted after 1982 contain approx 97% zinc. I rough up some pennies, place them in the cell and it runs the oscillators very well. You were wise to point out the Daniell Cell as history of the battery development is very important if one is to exceed what is currently available.

[jehdds]

Thanks Chuck
The more and more that I looked at this it seems that it was going to eat up alot of time (like you mentioned) to get it working right. I found a couple of simple "charge pump" circuits that are a little easier that might work down into the "ultra low" power range. Hard to say until I try them.

The LM3909 chip doesn't look like much of an advantage over my "Penny" oscillator right now. She is going to be hard to beat. It starts up at around 1 uA and .45v. I got it to run (finally) off ambient RF using an antenna and an earth ground wire. It took a combination of caps and 1N914 switching diodes. I have been trying to do that for months and what I was missing was an AC cap on the antenna feed circuit. Somebody on Youtube helped me out. Perhap I can combine this with the crystal cell and get more power. Either series it or put them in parallel.

Lidmotor

Dear Lidmotor,
Could you elaborate on the diode placement etc.
Great Job.
Jim

[Lidmotor]

Difficult circuit

@ Lidmotor, John is correct on this circuit. You want all 1% resistors in it. It was a real BEAR to tune. I spent 2 days on it then John made a different variation with it and we added the A13 and it starts every time. You have to really tune this as it will latch on start until the cap is full then you have to restart it. The key is knowing the impediance of the cell or battery and then the impediance of the load you want to run. The $3 chip may not work on all the batteries or loads you may want to use. Thats why this was made discreet to do what we want with it.

Thanks Chuck
The more and more that I looked at this it seems that it was going to eat up alot of time (like you mentioned) to get it working right. I found a couple of simple "charge pump" circuits that are a little easier that might work down into the "ultra low" power range. Hard to say until I try them.

The LM3909 chip doesn't look like much of an advantage over my "Penny" oscillator right now. She is going to be hard to beat. It starts up at around 1 uA and .45v. I got it to run (finally) off ambient RF using an antenna and an earth ground wire. It took a combination of caps and 1N914 switching diodes. I have been trying to do that for months and what I was missing was an AC cap on the antenna feed circuit. Somebody on Youtube helped me out. Perhap I can combine this with the crystal cell and get more power. Either series it or put them in parallel.

Lidmotor

[plengo]

I have two good news. One is that my last cell that uses Carbon + Sand + Mg with Sodium Silicate and Iron Pyrite works as a beauty.

The iron pyrite seems to stop the corrosion on the Mg (you can see the construction on my last video Cell 17 , 18).

I know that because I created a test cell using Mg plate tin as .08mm for one week and no signs of corrosion at all. It does create an oxidation layer where Iron Pyrite does touches the Mg but that's all. It comes out good power and no need for Alum either.

The second good news is that this cell LOVES water. It does not "drown" like the other ones, so the capilar effect will work as a charm without having to worry about controlling the level of the water going in.

I know that because (again you can see the test cell on my video) I created a cell with an extra cup with water and a little tube that feeds the cell as it needs via gravity. Somehow the lack of Alum and the presence of Iron pyrite makes the cell a little happy fish cell. It loves it.

Fausto.

[chuck H]

Lm3909

I don't know maybe I will give it a try. The more that I looked at the circuit the more it made sense. I looked at the chip spec sheet at the Futurlec company link that still sells them (the chip is only about $3) and they say that it will blink an LED for 6 months on a AA alkaline.

Lidmotor

@ Lidmotor, John is correct on this circuit. You want all 1% resistors in it. It was a real BEAR to tune. I spent 2 days on it then John made a different variation with it and we added the A13 and it starts every time. You have to really tune this as it will latch on start until the cap is full then you have to restart it. The key is knowing the impediance of the cell or battery and then the impediance of the load you want to run. The $3 chip may not work on all the batteries or loads you may want to use. Thats why this was made discreet to do what we want with it.

[Lidmotor]

Charge pump

@Lidmotor,
You going to give it a try?... Chuck and I also found that circuit and had to change all kind of things. But you get the basic Idea of how it works. It took a while to lay it all out. LM in the diagram does not give the gain of the devices But I have gone by the factory diagram. To do it right I would need a real chip. The 2n2222 worked better then the 2n3904 and the switch worked with the MPS A18 the 2N3906 was fine.
John B

I don't know maybe I will give it a try. The more that I looked at the circuit the more it made sense. I looked at the chip spec sheet at the Futurlec company link that still sells them (the chip is only about $3) and they say that it will blink an LED for 6 months on a AA alkaline.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

circuit LM3909

I found this and you are right about the LM3909 circuit being complicated. She ain't no Joule Thief.

LM3909 Oscillator

Lidmotor

@Lidmotor,
You going to give it a try?... Chuck and I also found that circuit and had to change all kind of things. But you get the basic Idea of how it works. It took a while to lay it all out. LM in the diagram does not give the gain of the devices But I have gone by the factory diagram. To do it right I would need a real chip. The 2n2222 worked better then the 2n3904 and the switch worked with the MPS A18 the 2N3906 was fine.
John B

[Lidmotor]

LM3909 circuit diagram

@ Lidmotor,

The LM3909 chip was around during the 70 and 80's but nobody wanted to use it. If you search the internet you will find two or three engineers that have tried to make this discreet circuit work, but they do not grantee it. The problem with what they have done is that an integrated circuit is precise in it's values. Just saying you can use discreet transistors is way off base because of the gain of whatever they used.

The resistors also must be precise. Example,, If the circuit says 400.2 ohms you would have to order a special resistor, standard value would be 330 or 410 ohms. The working theory behind this IC is a "Charge Pump" the oscillator is a self starting and forced to run, that is no problem as it is just an oscillator. The charging part is the real problem because it must charge the capacitor without any sag.

The pump charges the capacitor to battery level then the oscillator switches the dump, this puts the Led through a series resistor and in series with the battery or crystal cell so what you have done is trick the leds into believing the voltage is double but it's not exactly that. But what everybody is forgetting about is the battery or cell has an impedance to and this must be calculated into the circuit. So the down fall of the discreet circuit is this big series path that the led lights through. The answer is in the gain of the switch that charges and discharges. The remainder of the voltage is returned through the cells backwards.

My solution to that problem was a Darlington switch circuit with a Hfe of 5000. The only transistor is the MPS A13 so we popped it in there. The other thing is the breadboard test is not the same as the circuit board layout and stray capacitance and inductance is all effecting circuit perimeters . So you must adjust things after that. It's not that hard if your going to just make one circuit, but don't expect everyone to work the same right out of the box until you have a board and you have selected all the values again. After that the circuits should all run the same at 1% resistors.
John B

I found this and you are right about the LM3909 circuit being complicated. She ain't no Joule Thief.

LM3909 Oscillator

Lidmotor

[jehdds]

@All
The "self-watering" setup that I showed in my last video has a problem----too much watering. Last night the cell over watered itself and drown. It was way down in power this morning but did recover when it dried out. The trick is getting a wicking setup to just give the cell a tiny amount of water. It is very similar to adjusting the flame on a keroscene lantern.


Lidmotor

Dear Lidmotor,
Maybe it needs to work like a plant.
Updraft capillary action via small capillary tube to the BASE of the cell and have a long enough thin gap to allow the evaporative action.
Just a thought.
Jim

[John_Bedini]

The Charge Pump oscillator for crystal cells.

@ Lidmotor,

The LM3909 chip was around during the 70 and 80's but nobody wanted to use it. If you search the internet you will find two or three engineers that have tried to make this discreet circuit work, but they do not grantee it. The problem with what they have done is that an integrated circuit is precise in it's values. Just saying you can use discreet transistors is way off base because of the gain of whatever they used.

The resistors also must be precise. Example,, If the circuit says 400.2 ohms you would have to order a special resistor, standard value would be 330 or 410 ohms. The working theory behind this IC is a "Charge Pump" the oscillator is a self starting and forced to run, that is no problem as it is just an oscillator. The charging part is the real problem because it must charge the capacitor without any sag.

The pump charges the capacitor to battery level then the oscillator switches the dump, this puts the Led through a series resistor and in series with the battery or crystal cell so what you have done is trick the leds into believing the voltage is double but it's not exactly that. But what everybody is forgetting about is the battery or cell has an impedance to and this must be calculated into the circuit. So the down fall of the discreet circuit is this big series path that the led lights through. The answer is in the gain of the switch that charges and discharges. The remainder of the voltage is returned through the cells backwards.

My solution to that problem was a Darlington switch circuit with a Hfe of 5000. The only transistor is the MPS A13 so we popped it in there. The other thing is the breadboard test is not the same as the circuit board layout and stray capacitance and inductance is all effecting circuit perimeters . So you must adjust things after that. It's not that hard if your going to just make one circuit, but don't expect everyone to work the same right out of the box until you have a board and you have selected all the values again. After that the circuits should all run the same at 1% resistors.
John B

[Lidmotor]

Hydrating the Hydrate Cell

@All
The "self-watering" setup that I showed in my last video has a problem----too much watering. Last night the cell over watered itself and drown. It was way down in power this morning but did recover when it dried out. The trick is getting a wicking setup to just give the cell a tiny amount of water. It is very similar to adjusting the flame on a keroscene lantern.

@Nick
My replication of John B's Hydrate cell has gone down to 10 to 20mA when it is refreshed with a little water. It isn't really enough to keep an Exciter running very long. When it dries out the power goes way way down. That is why I am working on this "self-watering" idea.

@John B.
I'm anxious to hear more about your work with the LM3909 chip. I guess Radio Shack used to sell them years ago. What comes around goes around.

Lidmotor