Bedini Earth Light

[voire]

Alum Cell Impedance

@John Bedini

Thanks for your help in telling me to heat the copper about three times to form a good semiconductor. I finally managed to replicate your semiconductor alum cell. It's now happily running a small fan on my desk.

I wanted to ask though, if you had any ideas on how to lower the cell's impedance? That seems to be the only drawback with the cells. I made it in a 1 inch diameter copper cap. It's short circuit current is about 50 milli-amps, but under load it's maintaining a constant 12 milli-amps.*

What do you think about using a 50% alum, 50% magnesium oxide mix, instead of just alum? Would that improve the impedance any do you think?*

Thanks.

[John_Bedini]

My disagreement with Ibpointless2

@All,
I have received many E-Mails concerning my disagreement with Ibpointless2, so let me set the record straight. Crystals have been my interest for many years and so have all types of batteries.
Not only that but everything in the energy field.I'm a real sticker with the known science and I do like to experiment with chemicals, but I want to know more that just how to do the formulas. I'm not saying that his cells did not work because they do, I'm saying without the water you can not developed current needed to run circuits that need it.

Everything that we use in life requires current that we build. Showing the first circuit posted on The Earth Lights with two inductors as he did and saying that something new is discovered by altering the components is not new and if you alter the base circuit with a plate under the circuit all is you have done is change the resonances of the circuit, as the circuit changes frequency the amount of current will change (R*C will give the frequency, resistor and capacitor).

So by altering the resonances you have attempted to tune the circuit and the Led will get much brighter and the current will go down and that is the way it works. The other thing I do not need a bunch of people begging me to change my mind because I will not when it comes to physics. Just because I disagree with Ibpointless2 does not mean I will not listen with an open mind to him, I do not hold grudges with people as it is not productive here. I don't even care If Allen Burgess returns as I do not even think less of him either. It's a free world here and you can say what you want. I'm not begging any of you to build what I'm building, I'm just sharing information with this group. If it works for you fine.

If the information is discarded that is fine too. I do not like to go into math formulas here because not everybody understand that as I have found over the years and you will end up going in circles here. So again I will make this "Crystal Clear", I hold no grudge with Ibpointlesss2 he is doing good work in what he is trying to do, best of luck. And again I will say all of this follows Physics exactly right down to the Electro Chemistry . The point here is to trick the electrodes into believing they were never used. If you can not have a disagreement with people you will never be friends ever. I hope I have put this to rest here as I will not answer any of the e-mails on that subject, Physics is Physics and Electro Chemistry works the same way.

I will put up a you tube explaining how the depolarizer works in the cell I'm making.John B

[jehdds]

Mikrovolt and All:
I read the two attachments that you posted concerning the depolarizer, and carbon/Mg0 cells. There looks to be no easy fix in sight, as the chemistry gets more involved each day.
I'm very disappointed that even my dry carbon/quartz cells are being contaminated by the hydrogen gas. Even when the cell is sealed, it looks like the solution to the oxidation problem is not simple. As it will involve making the semiconductor layer on both the copper and aluminum/or Mg., as well as the use of the depolarizer, and then testing to see how long the cells will last. As the cells need to vent, and as they vent the outside air (oxygen) will get into the salt electrolyte, and combine to form more water, and even with the protective oxide layers or even with the depolarizer the metals will probably start to dissolve, in time. Time will tell, as it did with my dry carbon cells. How well the depolarizer will function, to absorb the released hydrogen gases, and for how long is not known, yet.

As things are getting more and more complicated this leads me to think that it may just be easier to buy and use regular Lithium, Lead acid, or other rechargeable batteries instead. As we are not really able to do much with low current cells, that tend to self-destruct in a short time span. Or not???
I'm really interested in a perpetual output DRY cell, as this whole wet process is getting closer and closer to regular liquid electrolyte batteries, but with very little current to show for it.
Solar cells are able to produce lots of current, using no liquids, while causing no oxydation.
Why can't we do something like that with our cells?????????????????

Nick,
Keep working. Do not give up. I am currently VERY carefully observing a cell I made that has been running my oscillator for 4.5 weeks now with the LED ON and not blinking. I can dial it to go bright even after this time running. It was made January 5, 2012. 2+ Weeks were allowed to pass before loading testing to ensure as dry as possible. NO WATER HAS BEEN ADDED to this cell after fabrication. So this cell is acting different than many of my others.
The cell is a Magnesium cylinder with Graphite core. OD 1" ID 3/4" 1/2" diameter Graphite core. So the electrolyte width is 1/8" which is even wider than optimal. It seems that if the electrolyte layer is just right, perhaps these cells via cappillary action may be able to pull enough moisture to keep it running. I again have NOT added a single drop of water after making this cell. So either it breaths or it is recycling the water. Time will tell.
The key difference of the cell I am watching has to do with the ratio of LiClO4 is increased which potentiates crystal formation even of the ZnO as well as a higher Silica gel percent, thus more captured and trapped water.
I made two identical cells with the cylinder setting upon a stack of NEO magenets. I believe that certain crystals are VERY subject to the magnetic field, and can assist in the orientation of the cell lattice. The cell that has not been touched shows 18mA Dead short, 1.67V
The loaded cell is 1.16 volts after 4.5 weeks. So I am guardedly hopeful.
I am hoping to go a solid two months running 24/7 before destructive observation of cell wall etc.
More later but keep up the work. We are moving forward.... momentum,
all with time.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[Lidmotor]

And the winner is....."Phyllis" the plant battery

I only made the cement cell that JB told us about early on in this thread. I have
been away from home working for most of the last year. I did not have much internet access where I was. So I have not been able to follow this thread as well as I would have liked to. There seems to have been a lot of progress here.

@ Lidmotor could you tell us which cells were the better ones that are
holding up better than the others ?


George

My plain old simple plant battery "Phyllis" is one of my homemade cells that really worked out well for me. It is just a philodendren house plant with a Mg firestarter block and a small piece of copper pipe stuck in the potting soil. I think that the plant and potting soil mixture helped with the depolarization thing. I have a small LED oscillator hooked up to it and it has run for almost 2 years. When the LEDs start to go dim---I water the plant. It is just that simple. The philodendren is tough enough to handle the chemicals that build up in the soil ---maybe it just learned to eat them??? The Mg chunk was big enough to keep going at the low amp draw. I pulled it out about six months ago to check it and it was being consumed-- but slowly. The copper pipe formed a green oxide on it and just sits there like that. The two electrodes are placed on opposite sides of the plant root structure.

Plant Battery Running a SEC - YouTube

(notice the date on this video----next month she will be 2 years old)

I have several other Mg cells that work if I keep them watered correctly but what most of us want is something with much more power. Penny #1 contiunes to run on IB's stove top cell but it is just an interesting curiosity (1/2 a volt with a few microamps). Several of my copper and zinc cells are running small things but a regular AA alkaline beats them all hands down. A rechargeable AA hooked to a 3v solar cell----beats that.

I still have great hope that JB's new Hydrate cell will continue working. It still looks good but testing will take a long time.

@Nick, IB, Plengo, Jehdds, and All
Thanks for hanging onto this project. What we find out is not always what we had hoped for but if ANYTHING is learned from the process ---then I don't think that it is a waste of time.

@John & Chuck
Many thanks for the massive amount of time and $s spent on this and for sharing what you can.

Lidmotor

[NickZ]

Mikrovolt and All:
I read the two attachments that you posted concerning the depolarizer, and carbon/Mg0 cells. There looks to be no easy fix in sight, as the chemistry gets more involved each day.
I'm very disappointed that even my dry carbon/quartz cells are being contaminated by the hydrogen gas. Even when the cell is sealed, it looks like the solution to the oxidation problem is not simple. As it will involve making the semiconductor layer on both the copper and aluminum/or Mg., as well as the use of the depolarizer, and then testing to see how long the cells will last. As the cells need to vent, and as they vent the outside air (oxygen) will get into the salt electrolyte, and combine to form more water, and even with the protective oxide layers or even with the depolarizer the metals will probably start to dissolve, in time. Time will tell, as it did with my dry carbon cells. How well the depolarizer will function, to absorb the released hydrogen gases, and for how long is not known, yet.

As things are getting more and more complicated this leads me to think that it may just be easier to buy and use regular Lithium, Lead acid, or other rechargeable batteries instead. As we are not really able to do much with low current cells, that tend to self-destruct in a short time span. Or not???
I'm really interested in a perpetual output DRY cell, as this whole wet process is getting closer and closer to regular liquid electrolyte batteries, but with very little current to show for it.
Solar cells are able to produce lots of current, using no liquids, while causing no oxydation.
Why can't we do something like that with our cells?????????????????

[FRC]

I only made the cement cell that JB told us about early on in this thread. I have
been away from home working for most of the last year. I did not have much internet access where I was. So I have not been able to follow this thread as well as I would have liked to. There seems to have been a lot of progress here.

@ Lidmotor could you tell us which cells were the better ones that are
holding up better than the others ?


George

[Lidmotor]

Testing --testing ---- and more testing.

@All
I continue to test the Hydrate cell and others that I have running things. It just take alot of time. Most of us in this group now have cells that will retain a voltage for a long time----some of mine are well over a year old now. It is now a quest for the ellusive lasting amperage that is hard. I am beginning to see strong cells that last longer by using the correct chemicals and electrodes.

I am now wondering if we should be looking into homemade rechargeable cells that don't need dangerous acids or bases and are "kitchen table" buildable. To me that would be a fun new project. There are plans for lead acid one in The Boy Electrician book.

Lidmotor

PS--
@ Plengo
I made one of your small copper cup, carbon, and Mg cells today and that little guy is sure strong ---at least when it is new.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

It's a real pleasure to meet you John, Ive been watching a lot of your work in the past couple of years and you opened my eyes on something very strange but beautiful. Yeah I agree it's a learning process. All the ingredients are coming by mail soon. I started experimenting with alum a year ago but now that I received the rochelle salts, I do all the tests I can do to understand the different effects of each product alone. For now, I decided to heat the iron tubes (I had cheap magnesium fire starter sticks, not good) I have before puting the rochelle salts in to see if treated like that it will act differently. It does so...I activated the cells about 7 hours ago and the leds were not as bright as now (No load was powered when drying). I will let this dry out for a good 12-24 hours to see if something build up to give better output. Will see!

[John_Bedini]

John H Crystal Cells

@John B., just want to know if there's a noticeable difference in power output between a John Hutchison cell and your cells? Because I watched this DIY video and there's some differences in the making. Ex: The coating of sodium silicate on the copper (the copper not seems to be oxidized)?, the couple seconds tickle charge?, the silver dust?, the importance of cylindrical shape for output power? ( ok, understandable for this one..). For the doping agents, the only difference is maybe tourmaline (she don't seems to talk about this one). Thanks helping me to clearify this. How to build a Hutchison Power Cell !!!! - YouTube

CDM,
The crystal batteries are quite different. You have John H who uses just about every material including garden variety rocks. The Sodium Silicate
your indicating here is just plain water glass, nothing special about that.
The cell does work as stated with small amounts of power.

The Silver filings, Glena, Iron Pyrite is real common here and the cell performs without the mix. Then you have Marcus Reid Cells that use something completely different and I can not speak about them, except they keep on working at 2Ma and that is all the power they developed.Then you have what we all are working on in different forms here.
Do not let the disagreements distract you as this is all a learning process. The group did do all the experiments early on as you can read from the beginning. Welcome....
John B

[cgalvisardila]

Hi all, i have been following the progress of this group and building a lot of cells myself, i have to say, im amazed by the collective research that's going on with the crystal cells, im sure it would take 20 or more years of research to come up with the results i have so far after barely a month of work...this is going to do a great good, please lets keep up. im not even a scientist, im a musician but i am very interested in learning as much as i can, i dream of taking this tecnology to he indians in the amazon, i have very close friends there among the tribes and they have to spend the little money they have in gasoline to run generators for when they need power. i dream of the day when i can take some lamps powered by crystals to the jungle and teach them how to do it themselves, and free them from this expense. i think that's the great treasure in all the technologies of free energy... SHARING... please dont let "them" buy you off. to john b. and all of the more experienced inventors, i pay my deepest respect, i am aware of the risk you take... and i hope to see john hutchinson posting also in this forum.

i guess the best i can do now is also share my tiny findings so far... ive seen that fausto's mix has given me the best results, but when the cell dies its hard to activate it again, watering it again does help but each time less and less, maybe has to do something with the amonia release that corrodes the cell... this is a behavior i've seen in alum before, not in the epsom/rochelle mix though, with this bundle the cells come back to life every time consistently... so i tried the same acivated carbon+powdered sodium silicate, but with epsom+rochelle, also with a little quartz,found that no amonia is released when watered. once activated with water, the initial power output is nearly the same (around 1.5v-20Ma) and holds for a good 4 days or so at around 5 Ma which i think is amazing, they keep my LEDs bright all the time. one of them has been 6 days now at 5 Ma, yet they drop if you keep them loaded. ive seen that putting them off load for a while charges them for some reason, then i put them back on load and show around 5 Ma again. after a day or so under load they go back down to less than 1Ma. i just watered it again and it went back to life at around 5Ma... ill have to wait and see if this is consistent. only a drop or two are necesary. i also saw that when you mix the rochelle+epsom (finely grinded) they inmediately start soaking water from the air and go from a fine dust to moist lumps in a matter of seconds, i wonder if this effect is whats powering those dry cells you've been discussing about... i guess that if this is consistent, then the life of the battery is now dependent on the corrosive factor... i also added a little limestone in powder form, it retains the water very well... do it yourself, water some powdered limestone and see that it takes forever to dry. ok, thanks for sharing, my name is carlos, nice to meet you all... cheers

[mikrovolt]

1917 patent describes well a process of making and applying depolorizer.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=battery%20depolarizers&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CFwQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fpatents%2FUS1221991.pdf&ei=Ong5T_q4DvLZiAKcs7jwBQ&usg=AFQjCNEzGUC5TN02mgTi-aqOra0qquWdfA&cad=rja

The reversible equations where MnO driven uphill or cycling such as in psuedo_capacitors.

http://www.electrochem.org/dl/interface/spr/spr08/spr08_p49-52.pdf

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

@John B., just want to know if there's a noticeable difference in power output between a John Hutchison cell and your cells? Because I watched this DIY video and there's some differences in the making. Ex: The coating of sodium silicate on the copper (the copper not seems to be oxidized)?, the couple seconds tickle charge?, the silver dust?, the importance of cylindrical shape for output power? ( ok, understandable for this one..). For the doping agents, the only difference is maybe tourmaline (she don't seems to talk about this one). Thanks helping me to clearify this. How to build a Hutchison Power Cell !!!! - YouTube

[chuck H]

Depolarization

@ All:
I have taken several of my carbon cells apart today to see what's up with the dropping in output. I found that the carbon is contaminated, and glitters, as if I had added salt to it, and it does not conduct very well now. All of my dry carbon cells have contaminated. And there is also some signs of oxidation of the inside of the aluminum cans. This is without adding any salts, water, or anything else, just dry carbon. And they still oxidize.
So, John B, I'm listening...
I made some black copper oxide today. It really does act different when you heat the copper several times, to get the thick black layer. First time the copper was heated it turned the orange color, second time it started turning black, third time the copper was totally black. Although the treated copper still conducts, it does so with a high resistance. Should it not conduct at all after the treatment?

Need to see what to do about the protective layer on the aluminum now...

Can you mention how the hydrogen gas that is given off by the cells can be removed or eliminated by a depolarizer? This is an important point that I still don't understand, yet.
In the case of carbon and aluminum cells or copper/aluminum, what would be the depolarization substance that needs to be added. I don't have access to any magnesium here.

@ NickZ and all:
Our internet here at work is down. I'm posting via 3G on my Droid. John and I will shoot a video and John will post it later on depolarization when there is internet access with bandwidth. Thanks Time Warner for the great service the last 2 weeks

[plengo]

Interesting video about how semiconductor models work: Doping of semiconductors - YouTube

Fausto.

[NickZ]

@ All:
I have taken several of my carbon cells apart today to see what's up with the dropping in output. I found that the carbon is contaminated, and glitters, as if I had added salt to it, and it does not conduct very well now. All of my dry carbon cells have contaminated. And there is also some signs of oxidation of the inside of the aluminum cans. This is without adding any salts, water, or anything else, just dry carbon. And they still oxidize.
So, John B, I'm listening...
I made some black copper oxide today. It really does act different when you heat the copper several times, to get the thick black layer. First time the copper was heated it turned the orange color, second time it started turning black, third time the copper was totally black. Although the treated copper still conducts, it does so with a high resistance. Should it not conduct at all after the treatment?

Need to see what to do about the protective layer on the aluminum now...

Can you mention how the hydrogen gas that is given off by the cells can be removed or eliminated by a depolarizer? This is an important point that I still don't understand, yet.
In the case of carbon and aluminum cells or copper/aluminum, what would be the depolarization substance that needs to be added. I don't have access to any magnesium here.