Bedini Earth Light

[John_Bedini]

Funny thing about the copper oxide treatment

I know that the Daniell Cell may not be just like what John has in mind, but, it gives an example of what was done before about the hydrogen gases. Each electrolyte mix may have its own way to stabilize or utilize the gases that are given off. But the longevity of the cell is what needs to be seen, as the stronger the cell output the more hydrogen gas that needs to be dealt with and converted.
Funny thing about the copper oxide treatment, it started out in a cell not giving much voltage, but as time went by it started working better and better. Also the load or draw does seam to activate it, or wake the cell up.
John, I think I know what you mean about the carbon. Even though it may produce the best and highest output, it may not be able to withstand the hydrogen contamination, as compare to the treated copper. Its all trouble, but its also a learning experience, and all good fun.

NickZ,
Yes I have noticed the same thing and yes it's all good fun. But now the serious stuff starts with data.
John B

[John_Bedini]

deposit was metal

Jim,
Yes the deposit was metal as Chuck noticed it, the failure was because I used a paper towel with the pasted mix, it was a test cell. The way I showed it in the video works the best. The cell usually lasts two to four days before it needs water again. In open air about three hours and then you must water it again. It also dries completely out and sits there without any adverse effect. The Manganese (III) does make the cell last much longer when sealed in the box. No hindrance to the cell at all.
John B

[NickZ]

I know that the Daniell Cell may not be just like what John has in mind, but, it gives an example of what was done before about the hydrogen gases. Each electrolyte mix may have its own way to stabilize or utilize the gases that are given off. But the longevity of the cell is what needs to be seen, as the stronger the cell output the more hydrogen gas that needs to be dealt with and converted.
Funny thing about the copper oxide treatment, it started out in a cell not giving much voltage, but as time went by it started working better and better. Also the load or draw does seam to activate it, or wake the cell up.
John, I think I know what you mean about the carbon. Even though it may produce the best and highest output, it may not be able to withstand the hydrogen contamination, as compare to the treated copper. Its all trouble, but its also a learning experience, and all good fun.

[jehdds]

Jim,
Yes I have done that and Chuck and I have seen some strange thing that take place, epically when using Epsom Salts. I have also seen the material in the mixture disappear leaving behind an unknown metal plated to the Magnesium but not the normal Galvanic action. The thing I found is that adding The Manganese (III) works the best at protecting the pure Magnesium electrode as this seems to thwart the process to a .1% level.

I'm building some power sucking switching circuits so I want to see the effects of this reaction. I have taken the old LM3909 circuit and Chuck and I have made it discreet on a PC board it seems to run down to .35 to .39 volts but it works better at 1 to 3 volts @ 2 Ma it strobes 8 super bright Led at once. The Circuit has been out of production for years, but now everybody wants it because of the low power use. It was the original charge pump oscillator IC The charge pump doubles the voltage by using a capacitor and then switching the capacitor in series with the battery. What I found was that it does not discharge all the way and returns a big pulse to the crystal cells almost running on it's own energy more or less. A blinking light on these cells could go for years under the right conditions.
John B

John,
That is ALL very interesting. Was the deposited "metal" a hindrance to the function of the cell, meaning did the NaPolyacrylate kill the cell due to the deposit?
How long was the poly against the cell before this happened?
Very Very Interesting.
How long would you estimate for your cell after initial fabrication and hydration the interval would be before:
1. it goes back to sleep and dries out if not in use
2. Interval between watering if using an oscillator etc.
John,Thanks for this data.
Jim

[John_Bedini]

The Manganese (III) works the best at protecting the pure Magnesium

Jim,
Yes I have done that and Chuck and I have seen some strange thing that take place, epically when using Epsom Salts. I have also seen the material in the mixture disappear leaving behind an unknown metal plated to the Magnesium but not the normal Galvanic action. The thing I found is that adding The Manganese (III) works the best at protecting the pure Magnesium electrode as this seems to thwart the process to a .1% level.

I'm building some power sucking switching circuits so I want to see the effects of this reaction. I have taken the old LM3909 circuit and Chuck and I have made it discreet on a PC board it seems to run down to .35 to .39 volts but it works better at 1 to 3 volts @ 2 Ma it strobes 8 super bright Leds at once. The Circuit has been out of production for years, but now everybody wants it because of the low power use. It was the original charge pump oscillator IC The charge pump doubles the voltage by using a capacitor and then switching the capacitor in series with the battery. What I found was that it does not discharge all the way and returns a big pulse to the crystal cells almost running on it's own energy more or less. A blinking light on these cells could go for years under the right conditions.
John B

[ibpointless2]

I think Plengo is on to something with his cells that uses capillary action.

The reason why water can go against gravity in the capillary action is due to water growing a small "liquid crystal" where it meets the air. This liquid crystal grows just like with any crystal would. This is why you can't create a fountain from the capillary action, the water is in a liquid crystal state and it can't break free from it. I'm going to be looking into making a cell that uses the capillary action, it makes me wonder if water in a liquid crystal state would be better than it being in a just plain liquid state? Use the water as the crystal?

[jehdds]

"The problem is feeding them water to keep them going."
John B

John,
Did you ever try placing hydrated sodium polyacrylate around your cell encapsulating it in a blanket of material that ever so slowly allows water to evaporate and perhaps be absorbed by capillary action at the level of the electrolyte? The material can feel like fake snow and is used as such. IT IS NOT WET to the touch really and when it dries can be reused. Just wondering if you ever used it. I wonder if you could premix MnO2/3 into the water before hydrating the polyacrylate and there by would not bother the mg. Just a thought.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

[John_Bedini]

old work in a new bag

NickZ,
I'm not quiet sure that the cells I'm making are working like a Daniell Cell since it uses Zinc and copper in salutation. In that type cell you would need to watch it carefully and the Zinc would disappear after a short time. I would suspect that Carbon and zinc would do the same thing forming Hydrogen on one electrode. You must remove the Hydrogen in that type of cell so you need a depolarizer chemical to sop it up. The Alum Battery was done many years ago used also in telegraph but they never went dead because of that.

I know that some here have used carbon poles from batteries and crushed carbon, I tend to stay away from the mix as it could be trouble. But it's all trouble when your trying to do something. The mix I gave is very hard to work with to. Pasting is the easy way to get around that as you just cut a new piece of material. Manganese (III) or 2 will help in the mix as it does collect the Hydrogen gas from forming on one electrode. The real question is how long will the cell run giving power.

These cells usually run around 50 Ma at the start and level off at 10 to 20 Ma until the material is dry. Chuck and I have seen them fail because of the insulating material between the electrode but not from galvanic action of the Magnesium electrode. as I said 1 to 3% is not a problem. The problem is feeding them water to keep them going.
John B

[NickZ]

All and All:
Learn from others mistakes, that gave me a good laugh, yes, it's so true.
But there was also a lot of knowledge in the old books and experiments.
This has been a tough cookie to crack, but fun all the way, even though its also been a bit frustrating. Like one step forward and a couple steps back.

@ Lidmotor: thanks for the minimum voltage/current levels needed for the cells to run the exciter circuits. I was thinking to combine some different cells to reach that 1.5v and 30 mAs, or higher levels. The mAs are the hard part to maintain without dropping. Is your Mg fire-starter cell still holding up on the exciter?
thanks again,
NickZ

[Lidmotor]

Good research

This cell called the "Daniell Cell" was made to avoid the problems associated with hydrogen bubbles.
Sort of similar to Johns way of using the hydrogen gas to maintain (or increase?) the cells output levels.
I thought that we were getting complicated in our cell designs, but it looks like this has all been done before, many years ago.
Kind of looks like some of the cells that we have made, now don't it???

Daniell cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NickZ

Thanks Nick. Research is a good thing. Above the blackboard in my 7th grade drafting class was a sign that read---

"Learn from others mistakes because you will not live long enough to make them all yourself."

Now that I am old I understand that much better. We simply don't have enough time to make ALL of the mistakes ourselves. Much time spent here on this project has been this------>

More effort spent researching and learning about the work done by others perhaps would have saved us many hours of work building something that was already done long ago.

Lidmotor

[jehdds]

This cell called the "Daniell Cell" was made to avoid the problems associated with hydrogen bubbles.
Sort of similar to Johns way of using the hydrogen gas to maintain (or increase?) the cells output levels.
I thought that we were getting complicated in our cell designs, but it looks like this has all been done before, many years ago.
Kind of looks like some of the cells that we have made, now don't it???

Daniell cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NickZ

Bravo,

"All Learning is remembering"
-Plato
Jim

[NickZ]

This cell called the "Daniell Cell" was made to avoid the problems associated with hydrogen bubbles.
Sort of similar to Johns way of using the hydrogen gas to maintain (or increase?) the cells output levels.
I thought that we were getting complicated in our cell designs, but it looks like this has all been done before, many years ago.
Kind of looks like some of the cells that we have made, now don't it???

Daniell cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NickZ

[jehdds]

Jim,
I thought I might say one other thing that was important. The pasting just forms on the surface of the cloth leaving an open area between the two pasted baked sections. So when looking at it you have a place for water to travel through in that area, the Ions can travel between electrodes then. That is why in the video I pointed that out.
John B

John,
Thank you, and that makes sense.
Jim

[John_Bedini]

Baking Process

Jim,
I thought I might say one other thing that was important. The pasting just forms on the surface of the cloth leaving an open area between the two pasted baked sections. So when looking at it you have a place for water to travel through in that area, the Ions can travel between electrodes then. That is why in the video I pointed that out.
John B

[Lidmotor]

Self-watering cell

@Plengo
I noticed in your last video that you had tried a "self-watering" idea on one of your cells so I made one also to try out. I am using the keroscene lantern wick method with cotten string and a small container of distilled water. The cell that I show in this video is very similar to the copper cap cells that you have tried. These little things are STRONG for their size but I had trouble with it drying out too fast so I am trying this "self -watering" idea.

Self- watering Hydrate Crystal Cell - YouTube


@ NickZ
All of my "Exciters" need at least 1volt and about 15mA to run. To run strong they really need 1.5 volts and 30mA. I need to work on making one that will run on less current. Slayer or Slider might have more luck there.

@ John & ChucK
I still have not made the "waffer electrolyte" like you showed but it is on my to do list.

Lidmotor