Bedini Earth Light

[DadHav]

JohnHav,
I just point this out because others have seen this also. In my lab we have one battery that has been hanging at 2.78 volts for over a week now and fluxuating at the level of the diodes. I put the battery in a video. My mix is much different in this battery of which I explained on the Energy Science Forum. I will be posting a video of how I mixed the chemicals. This effect is very responsive to any kind of discharge and temp. Fausto's Chart also shows that. Chuck has a Crystal cell that he put on a video that has been running for over 3 weeks now under load at 45 Ma, it has out run his ni-cad. To match the impedance of the cell is very important. The mixture is also very important. Early in this group I said this would happen. Alum can do some things with metals people have not really explored. It's not that there are no Lead Alkaline batteries, many can be found but the balance of the chemicals is very important as it is a must in all the patents. In a solid crystal cell it is not reachable as it will degrade the components. That cell can draw from the environment and continue to power led's and oscillators but not with much power, 2 to 5 Ma. In the aqueous solution it must be balanced as the lead battery's chemistry will not build that balance, you must balance it. When I watch most of the videos of people doing this conversion I see nobody balancing the PH of the chemicals. Do yourself an experiment, Mix up your Alum in a clear state and start to add Sulfuric Acid watch what happens if right it will lock into crystals, Then you will know. The Alum Lead Battery is much different in the voltage and impedance if it were Lead Acid it would stand at 12.67 volts. But The Alum battery at the highest level can only stand at 11.34 or so and some at 9.35 that is depending on the lead plates in the battery. All your calculations must be adjusted in amp hrs at that Voltage the cells work at, then you must figure the impedance of the cells as they are in series and you will find what is across each one, voltage wise, Kirchhoff's Law. Only then can someone run a proper test on this battery. I always look at this as the voltage across each component is important. I bring up "Piigogine" because of the changing impedance in the cells, keep changing from one state to another, it's not stable unless it is balanced out. If in a crystal state you have much different problems to solve with this effect. I have out run my batteries capacity at the lab but it is far from dead.
I'm getting to old to keep trying to explain all this.

John, I don't want to be a burden to you and have you keep explaining things over and over again. Thanks for you consideration.
Ha, wait a minute I can't let you off that easy. I think I'm getting it. There's a state of confusion withing the cell at a certain condition. If you can operate a load at that point or have the load be responsible for the switching of the reaction then the battery will far exceed expectations. Capture and release of the sulfuric acid by the alum crystals? Also there could be a separate incidence with the diodes switching on an off at the lower voltage range of the battery. Impedance matching in combination with the the proper mix to let everything happen is a balancing act.
J

[stonewater]

please read this again everyone

John Hav, CrystalDipoleMatrix,
The battery can live a long time in the crystal form and continue to supply current at it's level of operation.Impedance is ever changing with this type of cell, it's like a switch between levels. Remember what I said a long time ago here about the Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This is what your seeing, it's not understood by most but the system can be liner in one direction and nonliner in the other direction such as in a discharge condition. why is that, the lead wants to do one thing the crystal another. I knew sooner or later someone would see this effect. I did say early in in the posts what it was. I have been looking at this for a very long time The Alum battery with lead fits the ticket. You both have seen the light in what is going on.

who wants an energy source that can tap the vacuum? crystal batts to power and SG that never has to be shut down? why not backpop the primary seeing as how these crystal batts charge sooo fast!!

Tom C

[plengo]

Guys,

I found out something absolutely amazing in the Lead-Alum cell. You are not going to believe me. I will hopefully make a video and show it, but for now here is the experiment.

I have a cell under a very long time charge/discharge process using Arduino controlling 2 relays. One relay turn ON/OFF the power input to the cell, to charge it. The other relay turns ON/OFF the output power FROM the cell, when it is not charging, to the load. Load is a small motor.

Arduino, switches both relays at the same time at specific intervals of time, such as 3 minutes charging and no load, than switches to 6 minutes under load and no charge. So the cell is constantly, in days, being charged and discharged unto a load. All recorded in graphs using a meter that sends the data to the laptop.

So far, basic stuff.

Then I noticed that the cell will go as low as 25mv at a constant current of 10 to 20 miliamps indefinitely with motor as load. Than the charging time comes and the cell starts charging back up to the voltage assigned, in my experiment is around 3 volts now the input power and usually uses 90ma to charge the cell. (This cell has 2 Lead plates and the crystal mixture as electrolyte).

Than the interesting stuff, I decided to change the load (which was a small motor) for an Oscillator (like the ones used by Bedini or Lidmotor or Jule-Thief) while the voltage of the cell was the lowest voltage, around 230mv at a constant 10ma or so of power coming out from the cell.

As soon as I disconnected the motor and connected the Oscillator I notice a great variation on the output power of the cell (in watts). I than, turned off the Arduino and let the cell only in discharge mode and I repeated the switching of the load many times until The Effect happend, here is the data before and after the Effect:

"Before Effect"
1) Load is the motor: cell voltage is around 230mv (mili-volts) and current is around 10ma, than swtich to
2) Load is Oscillator: cell voltage goes up to .5v and current is around 5ma.

I reapeat the above many times until this happens:

After Effect
1) back to Motor as load: cell voltage is .5v and current is around 47ma, for a long period of time and than it comes back to stage "Before Effect".

I can repeat the this many more times and I am not sure where is the end.

What I think it is really happening is that the cell "enters a resonant mode with the coils in the little motor", causing the cell to re-use the back-EMF (at least) back to itself and sustain the load.

Fausto.


ps: video of the effect - Crystal Cell 32 - YouTube

[John_Bedini]

changing impedance in the cells

JohnHav,
I just point this out because others have seen this also. In my lab we have one battery that has been hanging at 2.78 volts for over a week now and fluxuating at the level of the diodes. I put the battery in a video. My mix is much different in this battery of which I explained on the Energy Science Forum. I will be posting a video of how I mixed the chemicals. This effect is very responsive to any kind of discharge and temp. Fausto's Chart also shows that. Chuck has a Crystal cell that he put on a video that has been running for over 3 weeks now under load at 45 Ma, it has out run his ni-cad. To match the impedance of the cell is very important. The mixture is also very important. Early in this group I said this would happen. Alum can do some things with metals people have not really explored. It's not that there are no Lead Alkaline batteries, many can be found but the balance of the chemicals is very important as it is a must in all the patents. In a solid crystal cell it is not reachable as it will degrade the components. That cell can draw from the environment and continue to power led's and oscillators but not with much power, 2 to 5 Ma. In the aqueous solution it must be balanced as the lead battery's chemistry will not build that balance, you must balance it. When I watch most of the videos of people doing this conversion I see nobody balancing the PH of the chemicals. Do yourself an experiment, Mix up your Alum in a clear state and start to add Sulfuric Acid watch what happens if right it will lock into crystals, Then you will know. The Alum Lead Battery is much different in the voltage and impedance if it were Lead Acid it would stand at 12.67 volts. But The Alum battery at the highest level can only stand at 11.34 or so and some at 9.35 that is depending on the lead plates in the battery. All your calculations must be adjusted in amp hrs at that Voltage the cells work at, then you must figure the impedance of the cells as they are in series and you will find what is across each one, voltage wise, Kirchhoff's Law. Only then can someone run a proper test on this battery. I always look at this as the voltage across each component is important. I bring up "Piigogine" because of the changing impedance in the cells, keep changing from one state to another, it's not stable unless it is balanced out. If in a crystal state you have much different problems to solve with this effect. I have out run my batteries capacity at the lab but it is far from dead.
I'm getting to old to keep trying to explain all this.

[DadHav]

Load tests

John Hav, CrystalDipoleMatrix,
The battery can live a long time in the crystal form and continue to supply current at it's level of operation.Impedance is ever changing with this type of cell, it's like a switch between levels. Remember what I said a long time ago here about the Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This is what your seeing, it's not understood by most but the system can be liner in one direction and nonliner in the other direction such as in a discharge condition. why is that, the lead wants to do one thing the crystal another. I knew sooner or later someone would see this effect. I did say early in in the posts what it was. I have been looking at this for a very long time The Alum battery with lead fits the ticket. You both have seen the light in what is going on.

Hello John. I hope what you mention is the case. I'll try to confirm what we suspect and document the facts in a video. I'm currently checking the self discharge rate of the 1.3 ah alum battery. From a full charge the rate was a little high .1 volt in the first week but it slowed way down to almost nothing. As a matter of fact it became far less than my LAB's I'll turn the info into a graph and post it. I have my 7 ah clear case battery cycling at this time and I'm getting ready to try a few more tests.
Thanks John
Take care.
John Hav.

[mikrovolt]

In 1977 IIya Prigogine was awarded nobel prize in chemistry.
Dissipative system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Allwest]

negative entropy

To All

Good discussion point John

I have thought of using negative entropy for obtaining power

(The growing of crystals and such), but have not figured out how to do this

Has any body done this?

negative entropy fights (over powers) entropy in some cases

Are we seeing this in some of the cells? with power fluctuations


Best of luck

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Similarities with the ''reac'' in Ossie Callanan free energy device.

I do think we can compare the crystal battery to the ''old dead sulfated battery REAC'' in Ossie's system. Ossie was able to run non-stop his pulse motor and be able to recharge it's own batteries with it. The ''REAC'' was simply put in parralel with the charging ''good battery'' and created the impedance mismatch or matching (I don't know) between the good and bad battery that created an effect of sulfated battery becoming a kind of ''infinite source of power''. Worth investigating!

[John_Bedini]

Prigogine system

John Hav, CrystalDipoleMatrix,
The battery can live a long time in the crystal form and continue to supply current at it's level of operation.Impedance is ever changing with this type of cell, it's like a switch between levels. Remember what I said a long time ago here about the Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This is what your seeing, it's not understood by most but the system can be liner in one direction and nonliner in the other direction such as in a discharge condition. why is that, the lead wants to do one thing the crystal another. I knew sooner or later someone would see this effect. I did say early in in the posts what it was. I have been looking at this for a very long time The Alum battery with lead fits the ticket. You both have seen the light in what is going on.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

We are on something.

John It's to soon to tell but it looked like the stator motor in the earlier video I posted might be able to run well past the rated capacity of the battery. The feedback from generator coil seems to really like the impedance of the alum cells. To early to say for sure but I'll see.
Thanks John
John Hav.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on this as I'm currently testing this theory as well on my setup. It seems like this thing cannot live very long without the proper impedence matching. John said these things all along but very few people were really aware of this. It's now time to understand the phenomena and replicate!

[DadHav]

Time

DadHav,
The Alum has the sulfuric acid in it, so do many products that are used in the food industry. If everybody only knew what they have been eating forever. The thing about this battery is, it is very different in what is taking place with the plates. But a good one built in balance can far out do a lead acid battery for extended amp hrs. I will be posting on the other fourm a very different curve. The alum battery shows much different voltages as to where it stands and how it reacts to loads. I for one only am looking at lighting and running oscillators for a solar house and I do not want to use Lead Acid I wish I would have taken chemical engineering at some point, but time waits for no man. Kinda wish I could talk you into posting your last Video on the energy science fourm as it's all about that type of battery. I know some would like to see that.

John "Time waits for no one" Ha, I had to look at the top of the page to see where I was at. I'd be glad to post where the video probably should be. I must have made a wrong turn. I had no clue about sulfuric acid being in anything except LAB's and Blue Vitriol. Makes me wonder if I neutralized my 7 ah clear cycle battery to much. I hope I have it right because I can do some tests between the alum and regular. I think your approach to lighting is a very practical avenue and will draw a lot of attention. It would be great to see what the highest efficiencies might be. There are so many choices now when it comes to LED lighting as well as so many oscillator circuits to study. Of course your alum batteries are the special feature and I'm sure you'll have some special tricks on the circuits. John It's to soon to tell but it looked like the stator motor in the earlier video I posted might be able to run well past the rated capacity of the battery. The feedback from generator coil seems to really like the impedance of the alum cells. To early to say for sure but I'll see.
Thanks John
John Hav.

[DadHav]

Time

DadHav,
The Alum has the sulfuric acid in it, so do many products that are used in the food industry. If everybody only knew what they have been eating forever. The thing about this battery is, it is very different in what is taking place with the plates. But a good one built in balance can far out do a lead acid battery for extended amp hrs. I will be posting on the other fourm a very different curve. The alum battery shows much different voltages as to where it stands and how it reacts to loads. I for one only am looking at lighting and running oscillators for a solar house and I do not want to use Lead Acid I wish I would have taken chemical engineering at some point, but time waits for no man. Kinda wish I could talk you into posting your last Video on the energy science fourm as it's all about that type of battery. I know some would like to see that.

John "Time waits for no one" Ha, I had to look at the top of the page to see where I was at. I'd be glad to post where the video probably should be. I must have made a wrong turn. I had no clue about sulfuric acid being in anything except LAB's and Blue Vitriol. Makes me wonder if I neutralized my 7 ah clear cycle battery to much. I hope I have it right because I can do some tests between the alum and regular. I think your approach to lighting is a very practical avenue and will draw a lot of attention. It would be great to see what the highest efficiencies might be. There are so many choices now when it comes to LED lighting as well as so many oscillator circuits to study. Of course your alum batteries are the special feature and I'm sure you'll have some special tricks on the circuits. John It's to soon to tell but it looked like the stator motor in the earlier video I posted might be able to run well past the rated capacity of the battery. The feedback from generator coil seems to really like the impedance of the alum cells. To early to say for sure but I'll see.
Thanks John
John Hav.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

To All,

In an attempt to make the best use of every ones time on researching these dry cells

Can we all post our finding on the dry cells so we can have a reference

This may help allot of people and help advance the field

Microvolt posted
John's model was sufficient at 7 mA level to insure that anyone there after
would have available the basics of understanding and this is how it came about. John doubled that to 15 mA
(but I am not sure what this means, dry or wet and for how long)

John Bedini posted
Marcus Reid has 2mA, but not sure of voltage

Plengo posted
1.80 volts with 200mA for a short time

Slider posted he had one going with light for a very long time

Crystaldipolematrix posted
My cells gives me about 1ma output when dry no matter what kind of load I put on them. The best power ratio is at 1 volt.

I know there is more, but would take researching for hours to find them

Best of luck to all

I'm currently waiting for a batch of true reed switches for my crystal pulse motor setup since the reed that I have is ''home-made''. It's good but not accurate enought. It's been 10 days now since my little crystal cell was cooked and powering my reed motor at 1volt and 1 ma (sometimes little less and sometimes little more). My 5 inches rotor is spinning at about 120 rpm. The led across the reed is blinking dimly but I can change the angle for more brightness but at slower speed. I'm pretty impress with the constancy of the power out and with Zero watering. It's very dry out there, very little humidity. There is more energy when the night comes (8-10 pm). The motor speed up a little bit. I have other cells with LED'S but they don't do the same thing at all! They needs water for brightness. But I think some radiant pulses from the reed motor are coming back into the dry crystal cell and energize-it but i'm not sure...Will keep it running itself as long as it can run without water. Pretty exciting stuff here! Will keep you updated as well.

[John_Bedini]

DadHav,
The Alum has the sulfuric acid in it, so do many products that are used in the food industry. If everybody only knew what they have been eating forever. The thing about this battery is, it is very different in what is taking place with the plates. But a good one built in balance can far out do a lead acid battery for extended amp hrs. I will be posting on the other fourm a very different curve. The alum battery shows much different voltages as to where it stands and how it reacts to loads. I for one only am looking at lighting and running oscillators for a solar house and I do not want to use Lead Acid I wish I would have taken chemical engineering at some point, but time waits for no man. Kinda wish I could talk you into posting your last Video on the energy science fourm as it's all about that type of battery. I know some would like to see that.

[Allwest]

Crystal Dry cells

To All,

In an attempt to make the best use of every ones time on researching these dry cells

Can we all post our finding on the dry cells so we can have a reference

This may help allot of people and help advance the field

Microvolt posted
John's model was sufficient at 7 mA level to insure that anyone there after
would have available the basics of understanding and this is how it came about. John doubled that to 15 mA
(but I am not sure what this means, dry or wet and for how long)

John Bedini posted
Marcus Reid has 2mA, but not sure of voltage

Plengo posted
1.80 volts with 200mA for a short time

Slider posted he had one going with light for a very long time

Crystaldipolematrix posted
My cells gives me about 1ma output when dry no matter what kind of load I put on them. The best power ratio is at 1 volt.

I know there is more, but would take researching for hours to find them

Best of luck to all