Water Sparkplug

[rosco1]

yes

I'm in the U.S.

I was just curious if you saw an increase in mileage/performance with plasma in general; albeit, the RPG set up ate your Brisk plugs.

Well, when you run a HI6 and PS91, you're pretty well up there as far as spark energy goes, so beating that isn't viewed as necessary. I added the RPG anyway, and I'm not sorry I did, however, knowing what I know now, I'd go about it differently if I had to do it again.

Right now I have an expensive HI6 and PS91 doing nothing but taking up space in my car, as they are being surpassed by the RPG, whereas I could have saved a bundle and just gone straight for the RPG.

I put a switch on my RPG, and when I turn it on, I still get a slight idle increase and a slight vacuum pressure increase.

My tail pipe odour is further decreased from what the HI6 and PS91 system delivers too. I can leave the car running and you'd never know as there is virtually no odour now, and that's with an overjetted carburetter, as mentioned above.

I still think the answer is to jet the carb up even further, as the plasma can, and does, ignite more fuel per stroke.

My aim was economy initially, and along with it came the extra HP, so I can't complain, as I am getting a significant economy increase as well as the extra HP.

Ok, the problem with the RPG eating the plugs, well, you can only go so far with normal spark plug materials, and where you gain in one area, you lose in another, so taking all the variables into account, we went ahead and developed a dedicated plasma spark plug, designed to operate in a very high powered plasma environment, and it's proven itself to be a good plug (it NEVER missfires and appears to show no signs of wear with plasma), however, the 4.7UF capacitor in the RPG is now too small to fire this exotic monster properly. Like I said, you win some, then you lose some.

We've asked for a bigger RPG to be made, with interchangeable capacitors , so we can fit whatever cap value we want, for whatever purpose we decide to employ it against. This monster ignition is currently in the final stages of development, so we should have it on hand in the new year, so then we'll be able to employ some serious plasma, like up to 12.5 joule(120 microfarad), if we wish.

Please appreciate that I'm not at liberty to say too much about all this, as there are non disclosure agreements in place.

Like I said earlier, if you knock off the earth straps from a set of cheap and nasty plugs, and fire them with an RPG, you should come out of it ok. If you want to go mad and run energy that will vaporize diamond, melt tungsten, vaporize holes in pistons etc, then you'll have to wait until we get this new system cracking.

[Turbo98]

I went through my figures just the other day actually(odometer), and the Brisk resistorless HO14LGS did only 1400klm prior to being pulled, don't know where I got that 5000klm figure from. Honestly can't say that the Brisks gave any more than the FireStorms are giving.

I do note that my FireStorms are still hanging in there, and the ball tip still appears as new, whereas the Brisk electrodes were all chewed down to needles. Interesting.

I was getting 370klm per 45ltrs, up from the standard 230klm per 45ltrs, but the engine was protesting with noticeable pinging as well as a generally louder operating noise. No amount of water/methanol or timing retardation seemed to aid this problem.

When I'd apply moderate to heavy throttle, the engine made quite a bit more noise than I was happy with, which is why I opted to tune back to a richer environment, whereupon, the noise all but went away, yet at the expense of about 50lkm in range. Can't really say the power dropped off by much, or if it did, it wasn't really noticeable.

You're in Oz aren't you?

If you have a red 202 Holden engine, just add a Bosch HEI, the RPG4700, then fit a bigger carby. You might get away with just knocking off the earth straps on a set of cheap and nasty plugs.

I fitted a 34ADM Weber, fully reconditioned and still jetted to suit the 250 cube Ford engine it was taken from, yet even this is running too lean on plasma, and really could stand to be jetted up a little more.

Make no mistake, the HP is way up from standard, and if you're in Melbourne I'd show it to you. Most people think it's a warm little V8, not a stock standard inline 6 cylinder. It does go well. I like it the way it is now.

I'm in the U.S.

I was just curious if you saw an increase in mileage/performance with plasma in general; albeit, the RPG set up ate your Brisk plugs.

[rosco1]

Further...

I should add that once you start mucking around, as I have, you'll run into problems with the vacuum advance swinging too fast, so rather than stroke around changing out the related springs and rods and diaphragms etc, just fit a fish tank air valve to the vacuum advance line near the vacuum advance module.

You can quickly and easily restrict the vacuum to the module this way and get away with it. Sure beats mucking around with all the other advance module tricks.

[rosco1]

RPG4700 and Brisk Premium LGS plugs.

Did you document any mileage and/or power increases when using the RPG and Brisk plug set-up?

I went through my figures just the other day actually(odometer), and the Brisk resistorless HO14LGS did only 1400klm prior to being pulled, don't know where I got that 5000klm figure from. Honestly can't say that the Brisks gave any more than the FireStorms are giving.

I do note that my FireStorms are still hanging in there, and the ball tip still appears as new, whereas the Brisk electrodes were all chewed down to needles. Interesting.

I was getting 370klm per 45ltrs, up from the standard 230klm per 45ltrs, but the engine was protesting with noticeable pinging as well as a generally louder operating noise. No amount of water/methanol or timing retardation seemed to aid this problem.

When I'd apply moderate to heavy throttle, the engine made quite a bit more noise than I was happy with, which is why I opted to tune back to a richer environment, whereupon, the noise all but went away, yet at the expense of about 50lkm in range. Can't really say the power dropped off by much, or if it did, it wasn't really noticeable.

You're in Oz aren't you?

If you have a red 202 Holden engine, just add a Bosch HEI, the RPG4700, then fit a bigger carby. You might get away with just knocking off the earth straps on a set of cheap and nasty plugs.

I fitted a 34ADM Weber, fully reconditioned and still jetted to suit the 250 cube Ford engine it was taken from, yet even this is running too lean on plasma, and really could stand to be jetted up a little more.

Make no mistake, the HP is way up from standard, and if you're in Melbourne I'd show it to you. Most people think it's a warm little V8, not a stock standard inline 6 cylinder. It does go well. I like it the way it is now.

[Turbo98]

Spark plugs aren't made to go to .5 joule, let alone 1 joule, once you get up to around .5, expect extremely rapid deterioration.

Even .5 joule is too far. The plug materials simply cannot handle it.

I just pulled a set of resistorless(test) Brisk Premium LGS plugs(HO14LGS) out of my test engine today, and they'd done less than 5000klm, yet the silver electrodes were drastically eaten away, which simply tells me that they don't like the power output of the RPG 4700 radiant plasma unit, which runs a 4.7 UF cap.

I'll ask the questions of Brisk as per the purity of their silver, as my custom made silver electrode FireStorms still appear as new after 10,000klm, so yeah, this was a surprise.

I'd even retarded the timing by 2 degrees(from factory), but alas, that wasn't enough to save them.

Hope this helps...

Did you document any mileage and/or power increases when using the RPG and Brisk plug set-up?

[maxc]

Has anyone thought for taping off the 130dc power in the inverter. Run into an SCR then though a high voltage cap then too coil pos and neg too ground.
Put a zenor on the DC output too ground for protection on the inverter. Dis connect the secondary wire in the coil and have a full wave bridge on the output too the "plug"ether pos or neg ion. Float or not float the ground. Fire the SCR for multi-spark for the best for the Q of the curcuit.
Haven't tryed it.
I do have plans for a simple cd ignition that can be modded for muti-spark high current.
Might keep inverters for burning up.

[wojwrobel]

hello

its my first post here and i would like to add my 2 cents

first - trying to replicate a meyer patent is very hard because he is so obsest with the patent protection so only he have knowlage to reproduce this patent

so what i suggest is to try to replicate other patent wich do the same job

for example this patent US7198208 does the same thing that meyers patents but its very clear in detail how to reproduce this "effect" please take a look

Patent US7198208

sorry for my english

cheers from poland
wojsciech

[gmeast]

What's Up?

I just read the water spark plug "official" document from panacea and have a question about the inverter. Does anybody know the type of power inverter for a connection to an vehicle that should be used for the high transients of the plasma bursts? Since solid state is no good, I can't figure out which keywords I should look for on ebay or anywhere else.

Dave

Hi Dave,

After I designed the Vexus circuit I thought I had found the perfect circuit only to discover that it 'eats' modified sine wave inverters like the cheap ones you can get at PepBoys and so on. So, I hunted around and then someone posted a do-it-yourself 2-transistor inverter (a self oscillator) so I tried that and it worked but used a bunch of power. Then someone thankfully posted a second do-it-yourself 4-transistor inverter (another self oscillator) using complimentary pairs and one tenth the power of the first. These transistor inverters stood up to the 'slam' and riggors of creating the plasma spark. It still might be on my YouTube channel, I took most of them down. Let me know, if it's not there then I'll give you the address of some pictures and schematics ... the exact ones that ran in my VW Bug.

Greg

[Web000x]

What's Up?

I just read the water spark plug "official" document from panacea and have a question about the inverter. Does anybody know the type of power inverter for a connection to an vehicle that should be used for the high transients of the plasma bursts? Since solid state is no good, I can't figure out which keywords I should look for on ebay or anywhere else.

Dave

[aljhoa]

Plasma ICE

[aljhoa]

Hi all,

One of the last things I tested was running through a tank of gas using just Water Vapor and the Firestorm plugs. It was almost as good as with the plasma spark. I am certain, however, that to run on just water will require the extra energy of the plasma spark.

Greg

[Kinetix]

clarification

Hello, everybody.
Guys, I think there is something misunderstud here.
Speaking about the spark energy needed to fire the mixture, a minimum of 20mJ is enough. But that doesn't mean that it's good to have ignition systems that deliver only 20mJ to each spark. Not at all. In regular systems, the spark energy is around 80-120mj.
Another matter to be discused is what type of spark do we have. Regular ignition systems have a high voltage-low amperage spark, that has not the ability to burn water. Plasma type systems have a low voltage-high amperage spark, that can explode water. But they can both have the same energy. The difference is that plasma type is triggerred by a small high voltage spark, but the most of the energy is discharged as low voltage-high amperage.
Anyway, I agree with you, rosco1, that the 4.7uF cap may be too big. Charged at 450V, it deliveres 475mJ on each spark, and that is alot of energy I think. You may try to replace it with a smaller capacitor, let's say a 2.2uF, to obtain a half of that energy. Let's hope with good results in boosting the power and in smaller wear off in sparkplugs.
Cheers.

[eternalightwithin]

I googled spark plug energy today. It said that in 0.2mJ need for stoic. mixture. Up to 3mJ for very rich/lean mixtures. So yeah, 1 Joule is retarded.

http://www.energeticforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=72876

David P

[rosco1]

David,

1. Trying to find out how much a joule is in watts. So I'm converting joules to coulombs and the to ampere*sec. Then plug into P=IV .

2. I read through this whole thread and in two people come to mind. One did "hefty" booster cap and got wear after several hundred miles. The other did less capacitance (pF?) and had almost no wear after 700? miles.
Is it safe to assume the second person was using ~ 1 joule?

3. What IS the normal power going through a spark plug at each firing?

The reason why I ask these questions is that I want to replicate this plasma at the same energy levels as a regular spark emission. Since both this effect and the tapping of environmental energy relies on a sharp HV discharge, then I should be able to get plasma and high Lorentz forces without increased spark play wear due to excessive current.

Going to start with a 2n3055 in a 1kVA MOT and go from there.
If positive result I'll probably finalize system with this schematic

DC-DC Buck Converter Operated in Boost Mode for High Voltage

Sincerely,

David P

Spark plugs aren't made to go to .5 joule, let alone 1 joule, once you get up to around .5, expect extremely rapid deterioration.

Even .5 joule is too far. The plug materials simply cannot handle it.

I just pulled a set of resistorless(test) Brisk Premium LGS plugs(HO14LGS) out of my test engine today, and they'd done less than 5000klm, yet the silver electrodes were drastically eaten away, which simply tells me that they don't like the power output of the RPG 4700 radiant plasma unit, which runs a 4.7 UF cap.

I'll ask the questions of Brisk as per the purity of their silver, as my custom made silver electrode FireStorms still appear as new after 10,000klm, so yeah, this was a surprise.

I'd even retarded the timing by 2 degrees(from factory), but alas, that wasn't enough to save them.

Hope this helps...

[eternalightwithin]

Questions

1. Trying to find out how much a joule is in watts. So I'm converting joules to coulombs and the to ampere*sec. Then plug into P=IV .

2. I read through this whole thread and in two people come to mind. One did "hefty" booster cap and got wear after several hundred miles. The other did less capacitance (pF?) and had almost no wear after 700? miles.
Is it safe to assume the second person was using ~ 1 joule?

3. What IS the normal power going through a spark plug at each firing?

The reason why I ask these questions is that I want to replicate this plasma at the same energy levels as a regular spark emission. Since both this effect and the tapping of environmental energy relies on a sharp HV discharge, then I should be able to get plasma and high Lorentz forces without increased spark play wear due to excessive current.

Going to start with a 2n3055 in a 1kVA MOT and go from there.
If positive result I'll probably finalize system with this schematic

DC-DC Buck Converter Operated in Boost Mode for High Voltage

Sincerely,

David P