Water Sparkplug

[Aaron]

closing this thread

I am closing this thread to archive it.
I will post a Water Sparkplug 2 thread where continued conversation
can continue.

Here is the link to the Water Sparkplug 2 thread:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...kplug-2-a.html

[Jetijs]

Hi John, try it again now

[circumnavigator2]

Here is my experiment:
YouTube - Water spark

I used a water heater to get hot steam. You can hear how the bangs become louder when the steam is released through the spark gap. This was filmed with a photo camera, that is why it is hard to see the flashes, but they were all there in all the impulses. If we used larger gap, the spark gets very weak after a while in hot steam and the bangs are not so loud anymore. I suppose that this is because the steam heats the electrodes and this makes some resistance in them. Anyway, I can confirm that when water vapor is ignited like this, there is a much louder bang than from the spark without steam, the flash becomes red/orange in color and you can see an explosion about 1.5cm in diameter. Also the electrodes indeed doesn't get hot

Hello Jetijs et al, Thank you for the thread. A friend and I have been experimenting with the automobile coil for hv (& low amps) supply to a HHO generator cell with amazing results.

We believe that it is possible to run a vehicle on water and the step further that you and others are experimenting with is of great interest.

I've followed Jetijs' link to youtube and discovered that it is apparently private.

I'm very new to this forum having followed Peter Lindemann's link here and I'm wondering if the "private" status of the youtube video is intentional?

Best regards

John bell
Perth, Western Australia?

[Aaron]

water injection

Hi Aaron, I didn't know that about the U.S. planes, I just seen and heard references to the water injection systems and such, and made some assumptions I guess It's very interesting to think how efficient something like that could make a normal "fuel engine" if it was designed to enhance efficiency rather than gross power.

My first and last hydroxy experiment was a real blast. I should never have lit that latex glove full of hydroxy. My ears rang for ages. It remined me of the 50%/50% oxy / acetylene balloons we used to make Hehe.

Cheers

Farmhand,

There is some interesting old-school knowledge about these things. One
of my friend's here has a good friend that is a land speed world record
holder back in the 1960's or 1970's. He is probably in is 80's now and is
who I learned the Lindbergh lean engine deal from. I looked it up and
there are actually a bunch of references on it.

What is also interesting is that these plasma ignition systems date back
to the 50's but have just flown under the radar for almost 60 years.
Searching "plasma jet" ignition will come up with a lot of references
on the plasma ignition including published papers at sae, etc... always
showing how they make a lean mixture burn normal, etc... all the stuff
that was flushed out in this thread.

Anyway, I think hot steam from recycled exhaust bubbling through water
is the best water source for water injection.

And of course, ice's are only one type of engine the plasma does good on.
Some others, the compression ratio is irrelevant.

[Farmhand]

Many of the US planes needed water injection to just get off the ground.
The octane of the fuel back then was very poor. It wasn't just for
emergency but was a requirement just to get the engine to perform right.

You may also find Charles Lindbergh's method of leaning out the engines
for extended flight time very interesting. It went counter to what everyone
thought was possible. Lots of references on Google.

I still think the Bourke engine is optimum for water fuel projects and plasma
ignition. It is much simpler than the over engineered other engines that
are intended for water fuels and the benefits are about the same it seems.

Hi Aaron, I didn't know that about the U.S. planes, I just seen and heard references to the water injection systems and such, and made some assumptions I guess It's very interesting to think how efficient something like that could make a normal "fuel engine" if it was designed to enhance efficiency rather than gross power.

My first and last hydroxy experiment was a real blast. I should never have lit that latex glove full of hydroxy. My ears rang for ages. It remined me of the 50%/50% oxy / acetylene balloons we used to make Hehe.

Cheers

[Aaron]

water injection

I have seen reference to the emergency power systems incorperated into the faster of the WW2 fighter planes eg Spitfire, Bf109 ect. 12 cylinder rolls engines and such, the germans also used water/alcohol mixture's. It was used as a last resort for extra power and or speed in time's of life and death, I imagine many aircraft engines at the time exploded from the overuse of these systems.

Many of the US planes needed water injection to just get off the ground.
The octane of the fuel back then was very poor. It wasn't just for
emergency but was a requirement just to get the engine to perform right.

You may also find Charles Lindbergh's method of leaning out the engines
for extended flight time very interesting. It went counter to what everyone
thought was possible. Lots of references on Google.

I still think the Bourke engine is optimum for water fuel projects and plasma
ignition. It is much simpler than the over engineered other engines that
are intended for water fuels and the benefits are about the same it seems.

[Farmhand]

Modern Turbo Mitsubishi Hot Rod People have been making BIG HORSEPOWER spraying alcohol and water for years. I'm sure the same people can tune the same cars for efficiency if thats what suited them.
An rf plasma ignition might not hurt.

1420mhz is the nuclear magnetic resonant frequency of a hydrogen atom.

Hi all, This is right when I was younger I was lucky enough to wittness a Fairly worked up 351 cubic inch motor in a XY Falcon which had a water injection setup and it was unbelievably powerfull with the water injection.

Without it it was fast but with it it was just wicked, it easily smoked the tyre's in third gear at over 100 klm's per hour, very dangerous. The power of water is truely Awesome.

I have seen reference to the emergency power systems incorperated into the faster of the WW2 fighter planes eg Spitfire, Bf109 ect. 12 cylinder rolls engines and such, the germans also used water/alcohol mixture's. It was used as a last resort for extra power and or speed in time's of life and death, I imagine many aircraft engines at the time exploded from the overuse of these systems.

Cheers

[sigzidfit]

I was a subaru guy myself but this is where I liked to shop. They've been doing water injection for awhile.

Australia's Leading Subaru, Mazda and Mitsubishi Performance Specialists,

Peace
PJ

[sigzidfit]

Modern Turbo Mitsubishi Hot Rod People have been making BIG HORSEPOWER spraying alcohol and water for years. I'm sure the same people can tune the same cars for efficiency if thats what suited them.

An rf plasma ignition might not hurt.

1420mhz is the nuclear magnetic resonant frequency of a hydrogen atom.

[SeaMonkey]

Hi maxc,

I was thrilled to get the 20% to 40% increase in fuel economy. If you look at it sort of sideways, I DID actually get more power, otherwise how do you account for going further on less fuel ... I had a power increase which allowed me to go farther (further) on less gasoline ... equated to more power per quantity of gasoline. The steam did the rest ... and the EGT went down.

I had limitations on the 'quality' and amount of my steam. I used only exhaust heat to generate it and that limited me on how HOT my steam would be. One thing I was really trying to do is to simply raise the RH to something like a cool, tropical, humid rain forest condition to run the engine at. I think I was close to those conditions and my mileage climbed drastically as I approached that.
***********************************
I don't think I ever posted my work with restrictor plates, compression ratio and fuel ratio. This experiment allowed an engine to run as if its EXPANSION STROKE WAS LONGER THAN ITS INTAKE STROKE. I used a standard gen-set, machined the head to increase the compression ratio to 15:1 ... things collide after that. The restrictor plate kept the "EFFECTIVE" compression ratio back down to the stock 7:1. The (intake) losses attributable to the restrictor plate were 5% but the efficiency gains were 25%+ ... and NO new technology, just about 3 cents at one stage in manufacturing plus a 15 cent metal stamping (the restrictor plate). I did a write-up and presented it with all of the raw data to Briggs & Stratton, but they have that same "not invented here syndrome" Also they said they are focusing on their overseas manufacturing ... meaning they were selfishly closing engine manufacturing here. Well fine! I want my efforts to first benefit the USA and not China (why do I even capitalize the "c"?).
************************************

Greg

This may be the single most important post within
this thread. The "secrets" to highly efficient operation
are clearly and simple explained.

Very high compression (15:1 or better) is ideal.

Plasma Ignition is a necessity.

Alcohol and water will work very well in such a modified
engine.

Please keep us all informed Greg of your ongoing trials.

[Aaron]

move the piston

Like Greg said previously, plasma spark into steam or water vapor does not create enough pressure to move the piston.

Right, it explodes then implodes. There is no real thermal explosion/expansion.

That is where ionization comes into play to create atomic nitrogen from air
and add that to the mix so it can partially act as an electron grabber
to prevent the recombination of water from hho, h2o or other variation
of water. Then you get a real explosion instead of the gases simply
recombining and reducing in volume.

Of course there are other key points to the whole process, but even
without all the "magic", Greg still had phenomenal gains in mileage, etc...
from the water drop steam and plasma.

I think everyone should go back and re-read Michael J.N.'s posts in the
ionization thread. They're very telling.

[ashtweth]

Start with this to make GEET plasma steam

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/DopageVitry_English.pdf

We have one ready soon to send to Rosco if he wants to test it.

Think the plugs would do well on it

Ash

[UncleFester]

It is kind of odd you did not exspeareance more power. Many years ago I put steam on a stock 2.3 Pinto engine. For every drop of water down the heat riser the engine picked up 50 rpm. Now my system is on a larger engine and has better flow control. Can't wait too put the plasma spark to it.

Like Greg said previously, plasma spark into steam or water vapor does not create enough pressure to move the piston. I proved this many times while working on the Krupa Firestorm plugs. If this did work I would already have been manufacturing units for engines to run on water vapor.

Now if you could create steam for free to drive the pistons, that is a different story. If you can run water through a GEET system to make a combustible gas (H2), and then fire it with plasma, that is workable as well.

Other than that I don't know. I've only been working on these types of systems for 15 years now, but maybe I missed a few things......very possible. I did get the Stan Meyer system working but failed at scaling it up to practical size for an engine, but then again, maybe someone else will come up with a large size unit and show me what I did wrong.

Tad

[govinda108]

oops, it is not yet 100+ pages, sorry only 99, but it will become that, no doubt.

[govinda108]

Just add Cap and HV Diode to standard car ignition system

Hi, please excuse if this has already been asked somewhere in this over 100 page thread, but I simply did not have enough time to thorougly search for it.

What will happen if I simply add a capacitor in parallel to the LV side of the ignition coil of my car and a HV diode between the HV output and the LV +. Will this do any good or is there a risk that I damage something. Of course I have to make sure my plugs are resistorless, otherwise the cap will only heat up the resistor instead of creating the plasma. If that works, can I then go ahead, cheat the EFI computer with an EFIE and this way try to get the Air/fuel ratio up as high as possible? This is to increase MPG only, of course, at first.

Now, if I have two cars (in case things go wrong ), I could modify one and start experimenting with alternative fuels, like ethanol + water. Have I got things right? Of course the final goal of all this is to run the engine entirely only on water. I do not doubt that this is possible, but I have a feeling that some more adjustments would be necessary to the engine for that.

Keep it simple.