Bedini Earth Light

[jehdds]

Guys,
Here is an update on the prolonged test on a cell that ran for 5 weeks without adding water. This cell had lower percent epsoms in it and was meant to try a move to decrease that constituent. Cell seems to have bounced back a small amount after resting for a day. Most interesting is the confirmation of what Lidmotor has shown as a sustained thermally induced current boost.
This effect very well may have adjunctive use as thermopile of sorts. Extreme cold test will be attempted tomorrow to see if this cell will replicate my previous flat cell finding of sub freezing temp current boost. The ZnO being piezo may allow it. Any guesses?
Update On Long Term Cell - YouTube
All thoughts welcome
Very Best Regards,
Jim
Update On Long Term Cell - YouTube

[jehdds]

Fausto,
I figured it out regarding your reversal.

I made a simple cell using a piece of copper and a LARGE 1" square of iron pyrite. I suspected that when you hooked up your cell and it was dry, there was MORE hidden electrolyte hydration on the PYRITE side of the magnesium and thus the magnesium was not being registered to the extent it would be when it was in MORE fluid intimate contact including the pyrite.
When I had electrolyte on the copper, placed the chunk of pyrite on it and read the voltage, it was NEGATIVE just as you had seen with your cells. The electronegativity difference between the pyrite and Cu makes it register thus.
I then placed a piece of DRY magnesium on the chunk of pyrite and it still read negative. when only the copper side against the Pyrite had electrolyte.
I then added electrolyte solution between the solid chunk of pyrite and magnesium as well as the other side of the pyrite having the electrolyte against the copper and when I did this it read Positive. So, The magnesium needs to be in fluid intimate contact with electrolyte before its potential is realized. I hope this helps. Is the phenomenon real, yes. Again, I have even seen negative resistance or so it read. Transient yes, hydration dependent yes, explanation......? Nope. Consider this a data point!
Thoughts welcome.
Jim

[Neight]

[ibpointless2]

I'm getting closer to finding ways to keep magnesium from corroding when exposed to water. Here is my latest video showing what i've done so far. Keeping Magnesium from corroding in battery - YouTube

In this video i use vinegar instead of water because vinegar will corrode magnesium ribbon much faster than water would. I show that sticking a bare magnesium ribbon in the vinegar will give lots of bubbles and show that the magnesium is corroding. Then I take it out and put magnesium ribbon with petroleum jelly on it into the same vinegar and show that it doesn't produce bubbles. I know what many are thinking, the petroleum jelly is keeping the magnesium from touching the vinegar, so then I place copper in their too and hook up the volt meter and show that i still get voltage. I use magnesium ribbon because it will corrode faster than a slab of magnesium.

I still have much more testing to do. I spend a lot time testing different liquids to find what keeps magnesium from corroding but yet still gives me power. I also have this same setup where i have magnesium ribbon with petroleum jelly on it in Epsom salt/water and I get voltage from it and the magnesium is not showing corrosion. Its baby steps but i'm trying.

[alvarohn]

[John_Bedini]

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion

@ Ib2, John B, and All:
I have noticed that where white glue is coated onto any metals there is no oxidation there, and the metal surfaces stay shiny. Even just using a piece of tape will protect bare metal surfaces to some degree. So, that makes me think that the problem with corrosion it is not really due to the water, but mostly due to air (or oxygen), instead. Water is much less corrosive that air.
I use a conducting electrical grease on metal surfaces, but it looks like even that may get somewhat affected by the electrolysis reaction.
Ib2: Thanks for the petrolium jelly idea. I'll give that a try. Anything that keeps the oxygen away from the metals is better than no protection at all.

I am very interested is seeing some more long term tests of how well the oxide layer, or protective layer on the Mg, or aluminum will hold up to wet salty electrolytes that are open and exposed to the air.
Plengo: thank you for those last open cell tests and observations, that is just what we need. I'll be trying the carbon/sand combo next. Hopefully the sodium silicate acts similar to the white glue, to protect metal surfaces.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, even if it is dead wrong. But if there is a lack of respect for others work, maybe that is where we need to watch out, to not step on any ones toes.

John B: Sorry for bringing SeaMonkey into this, as he can't defend himself, nor did I have any idea that by mentioning his name, would cause you any grief. I was only trying to give credit to where the no-polarizer Danielle Cell idea came from, as it seamed to be an important issue. Although he may not have agreed with some things that may have been stated earlier on this forum, he has always been respectfully, and has given credit to your years of work, efforts, and contributions, many times.

I don't always agree that these cells are nothing more than just galvanic reactions. But, proving that has not been easy, either. I'm a bit sad to see the idea of the solid state dry cell, go out the window, though.
Can't we just agree to disagree, and still be respectful of others opinions?
I think that we all can really benefit by keeping that in mind, me included.
NickZ

NickZ,
Look I have done my best here, I'm tired of people who ask for answer and then run off to another group just to poke and make fun of someone's work. That group cant even make a SG that works let alone some crystal battery. Yes SeaMonkey is a learned man and writes well, something I never learned, but I get my point across. SeaMonkey Can't not defend himself with me except with his book definitions. I have read all that too.

He is in uncharted territory when it come to this, He has been working on lead acid batteries for years and still has not discovered what the wave to do this is, he is so wrong on what sulphation is it's funny since the answer has been there since 1984. I have said many times the two charges are much different. You just can't blast the led off the plated and expect the battery to keep working with current. I even have gone into the current that take place in the battery, so you don't need current to do it.

They are failures over there at everything, except what is in a printed book. You can go to every university your whole life and never understand how nature really works in that battery. But to ask me questions and then go over there and ask him is a waste of my time and yours. I don't care that Aaron booted people off this group.

People who talk about you have never looked at any of the experiments or even done any testing to see if your right or they have changed the work to suit them. As a matter of fact it's all about me and what I do not know, and how nothing works. You just can't take a roller skate wheel and expect to get results, as that is not what I built or showed how to build. I should have never said anything trying to help it only leads to ridicule and bad press form those that do not understand. It's like we still live in the dark ages and that is why the world does not have anything new in energy.

You guys even dragged every quote by me over there to bash everything I said. Go read it for yourself as I have had it. Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit - Heretical Builders These people have never been to see me or what I'm doing, not that I would even let them in my shop for fear they would just steel and say they did it in the end. I did not spend all that money filing Patents at 30 to 60 K and proving that it worked to the patent office for my health. These people need to wake up before they talk crap about me.

As I said I have worked for some good places and have the degrees and work to prove it. So why NickZ do I need to say anything?. I have been debating this outcome for some time as to what would I do when this started to happen. The other thing I do not build Joule thief circuits as that is not what my patent is about, I build my own oscillators. Why should I do anything when it's going to be moved to some other group and given to people that know nothing about me, the answer is they could not get all the information from me so I'm a stupid man doing stupid things.

I could sit all day and post books for you to read too. Does that make you smart at anything except what the book says, SeaMonkey says it does by what he Quotes. So SeaMonkey defending himself here is not worthy of a debate because he knows nothing about me except what he reads and then formulates an opinion of the person from others that have failed to build the device right.

As I said you do not have to agree with me about anything here as it just all confusion, but that is what Social Networking is all about to keep people confused so you never get anywhere. Only some will be successful at this work as they block out the world stupidity.

And no I'm not jealous over your cells in anyway. I said to you what I thought in a post far back. And you must proceed slowly at first even if you want to just jump right in without thinking about what it takes to do this type of cell. Watching the Neared Ranger do normal chemistry with normal cells is not anything as that has all been done before. And reading those books is not going to help either. So maybe my wife was right when she said do not say anything. And I know Lidmotor is right because I'm to old to even make anymore of these mistakes.
John B

[b_rads]

Lm3909 ?

@ All,
First let me address the LM3909 chip problem @b Rads. The LM 3909 charge pump oscillator, that chip requires about 70 Ma to run correctly as I have been analyzing it. It actually was designed for D cell operation. It was stated in the 70 to 80 that in some way it was magical. Let me just say it was. If you study the chip and do a little analyses you will find the reason it ran so long was it returned the unused voltage to the carbon zinc battery. I could understand why it did not run on your crystal cells as The impedance of the cell is not enough to supply the power required.
However when you build this discreet you can get this to work in the Microvolt range because we have done that. You can not unfortunately get into the chip so you can not adjust those parameters. The crystal cells have a very high impedance so the circuit that charges the capacitor must be changed to accommodate that. The switching part is a piece of cake and the gain must be chosen in-between the highs and the lowest for it to perform right. My statement is that we have one running for two days now at 2Ma and the crystal cells stay charged as it is possible to charge them backwards.

John B

@Plengo:

[jehdds]

Yes, positive probe on Mg = DMM negative.



Correct for the first cell and reversed for the other cell.



No, not expected to EVER have voltage reversals when using or not a cell. You can do this experiment with any AA cell and you never gonna have negative readings.



Correct, Mg with Copper, Mg will be the negative and Copper the positive.



I will do more tests today on video.




I will try to show this on video today.

Fausto.

Fausto thank you.
Sorry I must have missed something. I have seen bizarre things too. I just wanted to make sure the readings that were seen were not just having the DMM Probes reversed or due to an intraplate abberant reading.

Thank you again for the clarification. I thought when you saw the negative readings it was due to having the POSTIVE DMM LEAD on the Mg instead of the NEGATIVE DMM LEAD on the Mg. That would have explained POST WATER READING, but NOT PRE water reading etc.
Very Best Regards,
Jim

BTW, I am not nit picking, rather I was VERY distracted yesterday when I watched it and will re-do so tonight! I just wanted to make sure of what was what and were hooked up etc.

[plengo]

Fausto,
when you have the postive lead on the mg one would expect to see the DMM read Negative right if the cell is reading across ALL LAYERS OF MATERIALS TO ENSURE THE CELL CONDUCTION IS TRANS PLATE AND NOT INTERPLATE?

Yes, positive probe on Mg = DMM negative.

After you wet #20 cell it went negative on both the current and volts right?

Correct for the first cell and reversed for the other cell.

that is what you would expect I think.

No, not expected to EVER have voltage reversals when using or not a cell. You can do this experiment with any AA cell and you never gonna have negative readings.

I ALWAYS have the NEGATIVE on MG and Positive on CARBON/COPPER. Is this correct for these elements?

Correct, Mg with Copper, Mg will be the negative and Copper the positive.

Did your #20 cell switch once or twice?

I will do more tests today on video.

What happens if you place the NEGATIVE LEAD ON A DRY #20 Cell?
Does that initially show NEGATIVE then when adding water show POSTIVE?
Thanks again.
Jim

I will try to show this on video today.

Fausto.

[jehdds]

On videos 19a/b yellow/red probes are Positive. Mg is always negative and Copper is always positive.

Now, on video 20, the new cell with flat Mg is undetermined. It changes depending how much water the cell has.

Fausto.

Fausto,
when you have the postive lead on the mg one would expect to see the DMM read Negative right if the cell is reading across ALL LAYERS OF MATERIALS TO ENSURE THE CELL CONDUCTION IS TRANS PLATE AND NOT INTERPLATE?
After you wet #20 cell it went negative on both the current and volts right? that is what you would expect I think. I ALWAYS have the NEGATIVE on MG and Positve on CARBON/COPPER. Is this correct for these elements?

Before when it was dry it was different correct. I once made a Mg/Mg cell that for all intent and purpose read as a NEGATIVE resistance on the ohm meter, but it did NOT stay that way. Bizarre. Still not sure why that happened.

Did your #20 cell switch once or twice?

What happens if you place the NEGATIVE LEAD ON A DRY #20 Cell?
Does that initially show NEGATIVE then when adding water show POSTIVE?
Thanks again.
Jim

[plengo]

Fausto,
What lead did you note as being the negative and positive on your #19B cell?

Magnesium= ?
Copper= ?
Thanks for the clarification.
Jim

On videos 19a/b yellow/red probes are Positive. Mg is always negative and Copper is always positive.

Now, on video 20, the new cell with flat Mg is undetermined. It changes depending how much water the cell has.

Fausto.

[NickZ]

@ Ib2, John B, and All:
I have noticed that where white glue is coated onto any metals there is no oxidation there, and the metal surfaces stay shiny. Even just using a piece of tape will protect bare metal surfaces to some degree. So, that makes me think that the problem with corrosion it is not really due to the water, but mostly due to air (or oxygen), instead. Water is much less corrosive that air.
I use a conducting electrical grease on metal surfaces, but it looks like even that may get somewhat affected by the electrolysis reaction.
Ib2: Thanks for the petrolium jelly idea. I'll give that a try. Anything that keeps the oxygen away from the metals is better than no protection at all.

I am very interested is seeing some more long term tests of how well the oxide layer, or protective layer on the Mg, or aluminum will hold up to wet salty electrolytes that are open and exposed to the air.
Plengo: thank you for those last open cell tests and observations, that is just what we need. I'll be trying the carbon/sand combo next. Hopefully the sodium silicate acts similar to the white glue, to protect metal surfaces.

I think that everyone has a right to their own opinion, even if it is dead wrong. But if there is a lack of respect for others work, maybe that is where we need to watch out, to not step on any ones toes.

John B: Sorry for bringing SeaMonkey into this, as he can't defend himself, nor did I have any idea that by mentioning his name, would cause you any grief. I was only trying to give credit to where the no-polarizer Danielle Cell idea came from, as it seamed to be an important issue. Although he may not have agreed with some things that may have been stated earlier on this forum, he has always been respectfully, and has given credit to your years of work, efforts, and contributions, many times.

I don't always agree that these cells are nothing more than just galvanic reactions. But, proving that has not been easy, either. I'm a bit sad to see the idea of the solid state dry cell, go out the window, though.
Can't we just agree to disagree, and still be respectful of others opinions?
I think that we all can really benefit by keeping that in mind, me included.
NickZ

[jehdds]

Fausto,
What lead did you note as being the negative and positive on your #19B cell?

Magnesium= ?
Copper= ?
Thanks for the clarification.
Jim

[plengo]

@Plegno and All

I am not your enemy. When I started making these cells I had people tell me "don't fool yourself, you must be truthful to yourself." Don't think Magnesium won't corrode because it does. I'm trying to help everyone out by doing the test to see what corrodes magnesium and what doesn't. The reason why Magnesium corrodes is not due the galvanic reaction but due to the water. Just squirting water on magnesium and saying it doesn't corrode will not work, leave it in water over night and if bubbles form that means it decomposing. The bigger the magnesium the longer it takes to corrode.

As for the voltage going negative, now that's interesting. Since the cell is so dry you have a high resistance and since you use iron pyrite and carbon you could be seeing a small negative resistor effect? Maybe try measuring the Ohm's of the cell that goes negative voltage.

Hey IB,

no enemies here.

I agree water will corrode Mg BUT what I think it is important is the qualification of that statement. If it corrodes 1% or let's say, in 30 years I think it is more than good enough for a crystal cell.

Corrosion might not be our problem. If one look at the Sulfuric Acid - Lead Battery, corrosion IS the process of conversion of energy back and forward. It is the friend actually, for what it was designed for.

In our case we have to learn how to use "corrosion" as a beneficial reversible process so that we can benefit from it.

Concerning the reversing of the voltage AND current, I think we are onto something REALLY interesting.

IF the cell reverse it could mean that it is recharging itself and also reversing the corrosion process and "healing" itself.

Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

@All,

My last post tonight. On my last video - Crystal Cell 20 (Crystal Cell 20 - YouTube) I recorded something very, very interesting.

Once Bedini said that the but I could not really understand until tonight.

Watch the video until the end and let's talk about it, please.

Good work guys.

Fausto.

@Plegno and All

I am not your enemy. When I started making these cells I had people tell me "don't fool yourself, you must be truthful to yourself." Don't think Magnesium won't corrode because it does. I'm trying to help everyone out by doing the test to see what corrodes magnesium and what doesn't. The reason why Magnesium corrodes is not due the galvanic reaction but due to the water. Just squirting water on magnesium and saying it doesn't corrode will not work, leave it in water over night and if bubbles form that means it decomposing. The bigger the magnesium the longer it takes to corrode.

As for the voltage going negative, now that's interesting. Since the cell is so dry you have a high resistance and since you use iron pyrite and carbon you could be seeing a small negative resistor effect? Maybe try measuring the Ohm's of the cell that goes negative voltage.