Bedini Earth Light

[Lidmotor]

Titanium dioxide and cell geometry

@Jim & Fausto

Two things that you have touched on today I am also very interested in. The first one is titanium dioxide. I started working with magnesium painted with white titanium dioxide acrylic artist paint several weeks ago. I am not convinced that it is doing anything but I wanted to let you know that I am already working with it as a way to help the magnesium. The water seems to get through the paint and still cause deterioration of the mg but at a slowed rate.
The second thing is the geometry of my "Anomaly" cell electrodes may have something to do with why that cell has performed so well. Weeks ago John B. suggested that I form the center copper electrode tube into a kind of star shape by heating it and then squeezing it in an electric drill chuck when it was still soft. It made a three pointed star shape out of the copper tube. The crystal structure may really like that shape. The zinc outer tube is just an electrical conduit connector that you can get at the hardware store.

@Fausto
My "self-watering" cell that is like what you made using the copper caps is really doing well. I only put a small amount of water in the plastic container to keep the cell going strong. I am sure that the Mg is getting eaten up but I really like the power coming out of that small cell.

@Jim
I worked with the "acetone cell" for a few days and discovered that it eats the mg the same way that water does. It was an interesting experiment but I am not going any further. The acetone is really too dangerous I decided. A tiny spark could start a fire.

Lidmotor

[ibpointless2]

Some of you may laugh but I have found something that is interesting and it concerns bismuth. Bismuth subsalicylate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Bismuth subsalicylate is the only active ingredient in an over the counter medication that will leave a shiny metal oxide slag behind after being completely burnt with a blow torch."

I think I need to get my hands on Pepto-Bismol, fist test it as a electrolyte and than make it a electrode.

[ibpointless2]

@Ibpointless & Everybody Else

Why use Hematite if you can coat pieces of sheet steel in rust?
The reason why you are getting sweet spots in the Hematite is because it's a heterogeneous mixture that's mostly the Iron Oxide. We can make a homogeneous coat on sheet steel and the voltage should then become consistent.

I have strips of steel soaking in saltwater now. All the research I did does not say anything about if the salt changes the oxide's chemical composition, or if it just accelerates the reaction just as desired. Which is better for creating a pure Iron(III)oxide layer timely, salt water, or distilled? Can someone please clear this up for me?

If you use rust from steel than you going to have red dust that falls off into the water solution. Even though rust is iron-oxide and so is hematite I don't think you can compare them that easy. Hematite is mostly a giant glob of iron-oxide compressed from pressures from earth and the environment. If you can make rust and compress it into a solid object and it works than that's great! Or coat the rust onto something that's not steel/iron than that will work too. Only way to find out is to do it. Nothing ventured is nothing gained.

[ibpointless2]

So Usually Hematite is more positive than the graphite, copper, titanium, zinc, etc... that I have used. I have found a metal that is more positive than Hematite which is Bismuth. So now that Hematite can be a negative electrode how can a metal that's already corroded corrode? Hematite has been exposed to the weather and is fully oxidized so how can it corrode if its already corroded? Using Bismuth and hematite I get over 400mV.

Before I bought Hematite I was searching for ore's like it but the question I would ask to Google is if the ore is conductive. Most answers i got about Hematite being conductive was that it was either not conductive or somewhat semi-conductive. From What I'm seeing every piece of Hematite I used is working as a electrode, some better than others. So this is got me wonder what other oxides will work. Most people say oxides are not conductive but that doesn't mean we can't use them as electrodes. I wondering about magnesium oxide or zinc oxide?

[Herbie687]

The amp reading on a cell with a Hematite electrode. Amp reading on Hematite Rock Electrode - YouTube


different spots on the rock and different hematite rocks give different kinds of amp readings. You must find the sweet spot on the rock just like you would with a crystal detector on a crystal radio. Also what Electrodes you use with the rock also will affect the reading and how big it is too. In the video I used tap water and small aluminum wire.

@Ibpointless & Everybody Else

Why use Hematite if you can coat pieces of sheet steel in rust?
The reason why you are getting sweet spots in the Hematite is because it's a heterogeneous mixture that's mostly the Iron Oxide. We can make a homogeneous coat on sheet steel and the voltage should then become consistent.

I have strips of steel soaking in saltwater now. All the research I did does not say anything about if the salt changes the oxide's chemical composition, or if it just accelerates the reaction just as desired. Which is better for creating a pure Iron(III)oxide layer timely, salt water, or distilled? Can someone please clear this up for me?

[Herbie687]

I 2nd.

Unfortunately surface area only will not give you the amps you want. I think the trick with geometry is not really surface area since my smallest cells performs as good as my biggest one.
....
I have a tiny cell that puts so much power out that is simply illogical.

BTW, my iron pyrite cell is going extremely well. It does protect much better the Mg.

Fausto.

@Plengo I've been seeing the same thing with my tests with Mg/Cu Rochelle and Epsom Salt cells. It's kinda like a trade-off. The smaller cells perform similarly with less electrolyte, but then you're still using the same amount of metal, and several cells in parallel are probably needed in order to match the current output of a AA cell. Hopefully we can get the mixes right so we can reduce the amount cells necessary for competitive power output.

[Herbie687]

Awesome.

Here is video of me showing a cell with 2 volts using a Hematite and Magnesium electrodes. 2 Volt Hematite Wet Crystal Glue Cell - YouTube

Sweet stuff ibpointless2.
Did you try polarizing the mix, or not? That may just have a difference.

[NickZ]

Fausto:
I made a variation of your 50/50 carbon/sand mix, but I used the wet sand and carbon from the beach, just to see what happens. I also left a "watering hole" on top of the can to add some drops of water as needed. I get about a volt and 1 to 2mAs per cell. These are very small cells made in the capacitor cans 3/8" by 3/4 ".
I do notice that the water drys up pretty fast in these small cells., and so they may need to be watered daily, as its the dry, hot (88 degree) summer time season here.
I put several cells together and can get any voltage, but only one mA, even with the unwashed sea water in the sand.
I'm still looking for the aquarium charcoal, and Epsom etz... to try to do it right.
In any case a volt per cell is not so bad, especially when no money was spent.
I think that getting volts from small cells is fairly easy, but not so easy getting mAs. I guess that is where the oscillators come in, but I like how you can directly connect the leds to the cells, also.

John B: How's the negative resistance BwJt transformer oscillator circuit going? If I missed anything, just let me know, as I've been busy at times.
Nick

[Neight]

THis was one of the reason I mention much earlier that geometry seems to be extremely important. I could not see a linear relationship with my cells sizes. They do perform much longer without refueling with water when they are bigger and that is very logic, more area more water.

Unfortunately surface area only will not give you the amps you want. I think the trick with geometry is not really surface area since my smallest cells performs as good as my biggest one.

IF, and a BIG IF, the crystal growth is really important, like veins in our bodies, I think it is not about surface area but inner surface area of the tubes like our intestines (sorry for the grotesqueness). We can have lots of surface are in small areas. So linear straight surface area or Mg for example is not interesting but the growth of the crystal paths where the water must flow and therefore becomes power is of relevance.

I have a tiny cell that puts so much power out that is simply illogical.

BTW, my iron pyrite cell is going extremely well. It does protect much better the Mg.

I will try a new cell using Titanium.

Fausto.

This may sound way out there, but it got me thinking...
I wonder if introducing the Fibonacci Ratio into cell construction would inspire some fractal growing in the cell structure, and boosting power output and extending the run time on cells without having to add water....
It may be a stretch, but when you are trying to work with nature, why not use the same math she uses?
just an idea I wanted to throw out there, in case anyone wants to play with it.
I may make another cell, with plates cut to match the FR, and see what happens.....

N8

[ibpointless2]

Here is video of me showing a cell with 2 volts using a Hematite and Magnesium electrodes. 2 Volt Hematite Wet Crystal Glue Cell - YouTube

[plengo]

You make a good point, and I think more rigorous testing needs to be done on the amount of electrolyte used in relationship to plate size. It seems nearly impossible that there is no difference in plate size and output, but so far I have built a few different cells, and in every case, the less contact area I had between the plates, the better my output got...
Since it is an issue that has come up, perhaps more people will start testing cell size and electrolyte volume, and we can find an optimum range for these cells to be built with, and more standard relationships to build these cells and get consistent results.

THis was one of the reason I mention much earlier that geometry seems to be extremely important. I could not see a linear relationship with my cells sizes. They do perform much longer without refueling with water when they are bigger and that is very logic, more area more water.

Unfortunately surface area only will not give you the amps you want. I think the trick with geometry is not really surface area since my smallest cells performs as good as my biggest one.

IF, and a BIG IF, the crystal growth is really important, like veins in our bodies, I think it is not about surface area but inner surface area of the tubes like our intestines (sorry for the grotesqueness). We can have lots of surface are in small areas. So linear straight surface area or Mg for example is not interesting but the growth of the crystal paths where the water must flow and therefore becomes power is of relevance.

I have a tiny cell that puts so much power out that is simply illogical.

BTW, my iron pyrite cell is going extremely well. It does protect much better the Mg.

I will try a new cell using Titanium.

Fausto.

[Dan S]

Hi, here is a link to a fellow selling the MK484, not the substitute for MK484 IC on Ebay.

Scotts Electronics MK484 AM Radio IC MK 484 or MK-484 MK484-1

Dan

[Neight]

There has to be some correlation between current output and cell size, as with normal AA to D size regular batteries. AAs size can output 1500 mA, while D size have 10.000 mA, almost ten time more current output, with the same voltage. So, I would assume it is very similar with with our cells.
What we not know yet is what it the best size and ratio for every given combination of electrodes and electrolyte. And what volume is optimum size of the electrolyte, also an important point.

You make a good point, and I think more rigorous testing needs to be done on the amount of electrolyte used in relationship to plate size. It seems nearly impossible that there is no difference in plate size and output, but so far I have built a few different cells, and in every case, the less contact area I had between the plates, the better my output got...
Since it is an issue that has come up, perhaps more people will start testing cell size and electrolyte volume, and we can find an optimum range for these cells to be built with, and more standard relationships to build these cells and get consistent results.

[NickZ]

There has to be some correlation between current output and cell size, as with normal AA to D size regular batteries. AAs size can output 1500 mA, while D size have 10.000 mA, almost ten time more current output, with the same voltage. So, I would assume it is very similar with with our cells.
What we not know yet is what it the best size and ratio for every given combination of electrodes and electrolyte. And what volume is optimum size of the electrolyte, also an important point.

[Neight]

Yes I have. I have cells from 1/4" inch height up to 12" and the total current output seems to not have any linear correlation. It is very much limited to small amperage.

Putting many cells in parallel or in series did not behave as expected. THey seems to fight each other and balance to a certain current. Voltage DOES increase linearly.

My 1/4" height cells seems to be the winner in output and constant over time. My 2" height cells is also very good.

Fausto.

Thanks so much for the info Fausto!
I seem to have something working a bit different in my cells, as adding them in series and in parallel acts just as I would expect them to, but adding more contact surface area does match your results, limited voltage output, regardless of size. As with yours, the smaller contact area I use, the better (more efficient maybe?) the output is. Very interesting to say the least.
I have not had to add more water since my last post, and I am still getting great light output. This little battery seems to be either on or off. Either it has some water in it, and has great output, or it doesn't and has nearly no output. Which sort of correlates with my issues of it not working in a certain current range.
I definitely have something going on here that isn't happening with everyone else's cells, but overall I seem to be in the ballpark.
Thanks for the info

N8