Bedini Earth Light

[Allwest]

I just wanted to clarify a few things if anyone can help..

I am noticing a black corrosion on my magnesium cores and I thought I read that black corrosion was good?

Is this true and how does it help? It seems to reduce the power generated for me (losing a little bit of power over time).

Also, I wanted to confirm: do insulators block both voltage and amperage? or only one or the other?

Thanks for any help!

Past,

I have noticed any color corrosion corrodes the Mag, its just a matter of time

Don't know about insulators

Best of luck

[Allwest]

I do not want to spoil the lead cell party. But any exposure to lead seems to carry a high risk:

Lead poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ("In most cases, lead poisoning is preventable by avoiding exposure to lead.")

Do not saw, file, sand or drill lead. Wash your hands after handling lead.

Many might know this, just in case you don't.

Greetings, Conrad

I second that

[conradelektro]

Be careful with lead

I do not want to spoil the lead cell party. But any exposure to lead seems to carry a high risk:

Lead poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ("In most cases, lead poisoning is preventable by avoiding exposure to lead.")

Do not saw, file, sand or drill lead. Wash your hands after handling lead.

Many might know this, just in case you don't.

Greetings, Conrad

[Nick_Z]

B_rads and All:
Sounds good, let us know how it goes with your homemade plates...

I was thinking that maybe what we can do, is to just find old car batteries, open them up and use their plates like Slider has done. The plates which are still in good shape. Otherwise just buy a new battery and fill it with Alum, like John suggested. Those that can afford to do that.
Auto-wreckers also sell used batteries much cheaper, especially ones that may not be 100% operational, for a few bucks. Motorcycle repair shops also.
The tire weights may also be melted down and any impurities of metals other than lead can be skimmed of also. As most LAB plates are not made of pure lead either.
You can also check online to buy new battery plates of all types. China sells them, but won't tell the price unless you e-mail them first. That may be easier, and possibly even better, than making and melting down our own. What we also need to determine is which of the two salts, Epsom, or Alum, is the best one to use, although they both may work. The bigger the plates are, the more output current, so bigger is better, although voltage is about the same.
If I'm not mistaken, John has mentioned that Alum is the best way to go, but for some of us, Epsom, can be obtained possibly easier from most drug stores. And cheaper?
Since Lithium cells are the densest and have the best output per weight, maybe old Lithium cells can also be opened up and looked into. Just wear a mask, snorkel and flippers, and don't breath.
Most of us use alkaline batteries, without knowing that they contain Mercury, Cadmium, and some other goodies in them as well. Well, there's probably worst things in the food we eat. But it tastes so good... MSG and all.
NickZ

[Lidmotor]

The freight train is rolling !!

The beauty of these projects is that they evolve. A bunch of smart people take a idea and just start making it better. Thanks to John and Chuck for getting the train moving ---and now it's really starting to roll. Sometimes these projects end up in a dead end but things are learned along the way. Sometimes we end up with a truely useful item. Making a simple inexpensive rechargeable battery that won't burn your face off seems like a pretty good idea.

@Slider
Congratulations on making a "semi" sealed version. Just remember what Fausto said about the Alum crystals growing. That cell you made might end up expanding like a balloon if it drys out.

@B rads
Congratulations on making the plates from sinkers. I made a 4 sinker cell and soldered copper wire onto the sinkers for connections. So far I have had no problems. The Alum/distilled water electrolyte doesn't touch the joint.

@All
It might be a good idea to start testing the ph of the electrolyte to see if it is swinging to far one way or the other. So far I have not seen (or felt) any burning.

I found out that you can dry the cell out and reactivate it easily once the plates are formed. Stored in a dry state, these cells could sit idle for years (like the military battery Chuck and John showed) and then brought back to life by simply adding the electrolyte and recharging. The lead metal electrodes don't deteriorate.

Lidmotor

[b_rads]

Making Lead Plates



@Lidmotor and all:



Brad S

[Slider2732]

@ pft - Not ignoring ya in this post, i've just never used magnesium.

Good progress here.
I took the 2 plates that were from the 12V gel battery and converted them to a safe to handle rechargeable cell.
2 cotton balls were soaked in an Alum/distilled water solution and put between the plates.
I then used electrical tape to seal up the cell.
A small space was left at the top and clear tape placed over it. That's to allow for bubbling and other effects. Also, to enable rewetting the cotton if it dries out.
The cell had to be reformed, but I used the same plate polarities.
It's just about the same dimensions as a cellphone battery

Here it is running an LED oscillator, to a much brighter level than the whole 12V gel battery originally did !

[pastfuturetechnology]

Clarification

I just wanted to clarify a few things if anyone can help..

I am noticing a black corrosion on my magnesium cores and I thought I read that black corrosion was good?

Is this true and how does it help? It seems to reduce the power generated for me (losing a little bit of power over time).

Also, I wanted to confirm: do insulators block both voltage and amperage? or only one or the other?

Thanks for any help!

[Lidmotor]

Expansion

I think the issue with Alum in lead batteries is the problem of expansion. Alum will increase the area inside the cell and crack the container. So if you are manufacturing alum/lead batteries you would be out of business very soon.

Fausto.

John seems to have a handle on that by adding a small amount of Cream of Tartar to the mixture but I see what you mean. Those Alum crystals really do grow. One of my old crystal cells is made out of a plastic electronics box and it is all pushed out of shape because of the crystal expansion. If you kept the Alum dissolved in a wet cell configuration it might be OK -----but let it dry out and like you say,...."you would be out of business.." The battery would burst. Not a good thing.

@cgalvisadila
Thanks for posting that link to the "Penny" oscillator circuit. Many people ask me about that. It is really just an old blocking oscillator circuit and the only thing that I consider unique about it is the dollar store twist tie wire coils. Those coils are steel wire and that makes it somewhat unique. It was just a whimsical project that turned into the best low power led oscillator that I ever made. It is a testing tool that I use all the time now on these low power homemade cells.


Lidmotor

[plengo]

Is there some problem that has kept this idea from being developed further???

Lidmotor

I think the issue with Alum in lead batteries is the problem of expansion. Alum will increase the area inside the cell and crack the container. So if you are manufacturing alum/lead batteries you would be out of business very soon.

Fausto.

[cgalvisardila]

Oscillator variant, works really well when cell dries

Hello all!

i was looking for a way to improve the basig SG oscillator and came up with a hybrid between the SG and th penny oscillator by Lidmotor, the adding of the caps adds up a little brightness to the LED when the cell is wet, but when it dries it keeps going for much longer than the configuration with no caps. heres the video

SG/Penny hybrid oscillator - YouTube

and heres a link to the original penny oscillator by Lidmotor

PENNY's circuit diagram- YouTube

cheers

carlos

[Slider2732]

@MonsieurM - I keep all those flakes and whatnot and put it all in a pills bottle. Some appears to be crystals. I've tried those bits in other cells and they certainly don't seem to harm anything...but i've no idea if they offer any improved runnings.

@All
Gel cell 12V batteries can be brought back, even completely toasted bulged ones to at least partial running.


Sure, they may never return to full 12V capacity, but my completely useless 1245 model now sits at 4.4V and is steadily increasing with use and recharging. This one now has 2 lead plates missing and lots of crud fell off from corrosion when opening it up - but the proof is in the video below.
Alum gel battery/Lead plate cell/Motor circuit - YouTube

The white gel pads were bone dry on opening it up.
I neutralized it with baking soda and distilled water (1ltr to 4 teaspoons baking soda), then formed a bath of Alum/distilled water to the same ratio...and wetted all the internals thoroughly. It was then sat on charge overnight, via my workhorse Alum converted car battery. Initially it sat at 3.8V after 1hr rest time. I used it for some experiments and then put it back on charge for 2hrs. It now sits at 4.40V.
It'll be recased with the parts I removed. How far it gets in it's new life is unknown, considering the bulge area damage and the now 2 missing plates.

The 2 plates from it have formed well and show similar results to Lidmotor's lead solder. The plates will 'supercharge' in about 30 seconds, using around 9.3V from the uncharged Alum car battery. If nothing else, they make a wonderful supercap.

Also shown in the video, is a modification to sMartcreations2010/Lidmotor's self start pulse motor designs, with simple charging output radiantly.

[Allwest]

@All
I took my Lead--Alum "solder cell" apart after doing some harsh load testing for several days. The redish brown oxide deposit did start falling off the positive electrode after some time but it reforms again. This is an interesting cell because the two electrodes retain a charge even out of the Alum/water electrolyte. I show the cell here running on a paper towel with just a few drops of distilled water on the towel.

Homemade rechargeable battery---dissected after load testing - YouTube

@Slider
Your idea about making a "solid state" version of this cell might just work if you kept the charge / discharge rate very low. Too high a current would form gases though and ruin the cell.

@ John B.
I wonder what your thoughts are on this. You are calling this a "crystal cell" and perhaps you can explain the chemistry a little better. I am very surprised that there is so little information on the web about using the Alum/water electrolyte in an all lead cell. Is there some problem that has kept this idea from being developed further???

Lidmotor

Lid,

What do you think about using the combination of the low power crystal cells and or solar power, to trickle charge this type of alum filled battery?

Best of luck

[MonsieurM]

Hello all ,

I have a question if i may ..... have been reading all the tests being done on the various Crystal cells .... but was wondering :

the resulting oxides (red brown or other once the cell is opened ) did you think of reusing those in another mix or do you just discard them



just thought worth bringing it up

[Lidmotor]

Lead --Alum homemade cell dissected after load testing

@All
I took my Lead--Alum "solder cell" apart after doing some harsh load testing for several days. The redish brown oxide deposit did start falling off the positive electrode after some time but it reforms again. This is an interesting cell because the two electrodes retain a charge even out of the Alum/water electrolyte. I show the cell here running on a paper towel with just a few drops of distilled water on the towel.

Homemade rechargeable battery---dissected after load testing - YouTube

@Slider
Your idea about making a "solid state" version of this cell might just work if you kept the charge / discharge rate very low. Too high a current would form gases though and ruin the cell.

@ John B.
I wonder what your thoughts are on this. You are calling this a "crystal cell" and perhaps you can explain the chemistry a little better. I am very surprised that there is so little information on the web about using the Alum/water electrolyte in an all lead cell. Is there some problem that has kept this idea from being developed further???

Lidmotor