Bedini Earth Light

[Lidmotor]

Lead Hunt

@ Nick, Slider, and Fausto

When I decided to try this Lead--Alum cell I didn't want to spend much money OR time on just a quick test of the idea. After I got the solder cell working I set out to find 100% lead and a tire store was going to be my second stop if the sporting goods store near me didn't carry lead sinkers any more. Everybody is getting rid of lead things---including the wheel weight folks. I think that I recall B rad saying that his source of wheel weights only has the zinc ones. I couldn't find ANYTHING lead at the Lowes hardware store near me.

I did order some lead off Ebay yesterday just to get what I wanted. Today I tested the cells all day and the solder cell will now run that little pulse motor I showed in the video for over 2 hours. There isn't huge amperage in these simple cells but I really like that you can charge them up off a 3v / 70 mA solar cell in less that 1/2 an hour. You can also dead short the cell and it doesn't hurt it. I have accidently spilled the electrolyte on my living room table 3 TIMES !!!!-----and nothing happened. I really really like that.

Thanks again to John and Chuck for all the work they did on this so far.

Cheers.

Lidmotor

PS John---I did read that section in the Boy Electrician about making a lead acid battery. That is a great litle book. I have been searching for the "red lead" paste to make a stronger battery. I may have to order some online.

[John_Bedini]

Alum Lead Crystal.

Lidmotor,
That is the right color and you formed that with Alum. so you have a new crystal. you could wind another solder coil and have three plates and get twice the current did you try mixing the Alum a little thicker? Chuck and I have noticed that also, easy to make and no acid. if you just build a cell and keep the current on it you can get the oxides and paste the material into little holes in the lead making a much stronger cell. How to make that battery is in the Boy Electrician 1955 book, but they did not use Alum.
John

@All
I have been quietly following along here and at other forums. Thanks Nick for posting my latest video on the homemade Lead / Alum rechargeable cell. John and Chuck have spent huge amounts of time working with this research and I wanted to try it out at the kitchen table level. I suggest that everyone try it and see for yourself. It was stated on another forum that the reversable chemical reaction would not work unless there was sulfuric acid already on the formed lead plates. I seem to have proved that it DOES work using just two lead plates and an electrolyte of distilled water and Alum (aluminum sulfate hydrate). I used cheap electrical solder (it is at least 50% lead and maybe more) for my first test cell and then tried it with lead fishing sinkers. Both worked and seem to be getting stronger with each charge/discharge cycle. This is not a redox reaction between two dissimilar metals like we have all been struggling with ---this is a different.

Here is the video again of my little experiment:

Lead--Alum Homemade Rechargeable Battery - YouTube

Lidmotor

[plengo]

Guys:
Used tire balancing weights at tire places can be obtained and melted down to make your own battery plates, it's not hard, you just need a proper mold for casting the plates.

This brings me good memories when I was 8 I used to melt those at home and pour them into a mold made with "Durepox" to fabricate Archive games "coins" or tokens instead of buying them at the store.

Off course this was illegal and I even sold many at the school and made more money than my Mother was making at the time. Crazy times.

Fausto.

[Nick_Z]

Guys:
Used tire balancing weights at tire places can be obtained and melted down to make your own battery plates, it's not hard, you just need a proper mold for casting the plates. Not as easy and simple as buying a battery. Lead acid battery plates can also be purchased on line.
I tried to empty and refill an old 12v, 4.5ah computer back up battery, which is also LAB. But, since I can't get Alum here, I just refilled it with table salt, and even though the old battery is junk, and does not take a charge anymore, it does output a couple of volts now, just using salt. It still will not take much a charge though, as junk is junk. But, I may try it with an old car battery that I have, as even just common salt may work to a degree. Just something to play with, although I'm not expecting much from that either, but, you never know.
I would think that any lead acid battery of any size can be used, and refilled with Alum.

Lidmotor: Thanks for the solder wire and fishing sinker idea. Some fishermen here make their on lead sinkers, that's were my idea of using the car tire weights came from.

[Lidmotor]

Lead --Alum homemade cell

@All
I have been quietly following along here and at other forums. Thanks Nick for posting my latest video on the homemade Lead / Alum rechargeable cell. John and Chuck have spent huge amounts of time working with this research and I wanted to try it out at the kitchen table level. I suggest that everyone try it and see for yourself. It was stated on another forum that the reversable chemical reaction would not work unless there was sulfuric acid already on the formed lead plates. I seem to have proved that it DOES work using just two lead plates and an electrolyte of distilled water and Alum (aluminum sulfate hydrate). I used cheap electrical solder (it is at least 50% lead and maybe more) for my first test cell and then tried it with lead fishing sinkers. Both worked and seem to be getting stronger with each charge/discharge cycle. This is not a redox reaction between two dissimilar metals like we have all been struggling with ---this is a different.

Here is the video again of my little experiment:

Lead--Alum Homemade Rechargeable Battery - YouTube

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Lead Battery, with Alum

Allwest,
I don't know if we came to an understanding, but out of all the crystal batteries that work I would pick for instant power it would be Alum. Now it's not possible to use any of these cells without some water that is locked in it, including the Reid Cell. The Lead acid cell with Alum is the same except with far more power and current, it's just the way things work. You can go out in your back yard and it all galvanic action on everything that is metal. everything goes away one day, same for your car if you let it set. If you do not maintain things they just go right back to where they came from.
Ib and myself have no agreement, because he can't change that no matter what he does it's still going to happen. Using what ever in a lead acid battery, I have years at it. Using detergent in a battery is up to him, I wouldn't do that myself. The lead acid battery is already formed by the manufacture, and the battery is shipped in a dry state. So what I'm saying is it was already once charged and that is where the power is coming from. The two different lead oxides allow that to happen plus the acid is already in the plates, it's just the way it works. But if you want to avoided watching galvanic action happening in front of you it's lead and still it will corrode but not the same way. If you do it right you will get a crystal lead battery, far better then anything else. I understand that it is a hobby for everybody here. But, I have watched this since day one and have been condemned by Ib even when I tried to produce a kit at the price it was. I was always wrong in what I was doing and it was galvanic, well his are too, you can't get around that even at a micro level. This is just the way things work in physics, some explained and some not. Even the Reid battery will die one day. Marcus Reids reports that water is locked up in it, and that was not done by me, but by people that understand chemistry. The lead acid battery is basically a fuel cell and you can take advantage of that with the Alum and Tartar if your mixture is correct, proven time and time again. I have seen people charge the Alum Magnesium Copper crystal battery and it works for a small amount of time. On the other hand, the Alum lead battery is acting just like a crystal ni-cad battery with almost identical dis-charge curves, proven time and time again. So I say screw you Ib. I have built batteries since the 50's and they all work that way. I have not become a rich man doing all this work and helping people to learn it, science has it's drawbacks and sometime you must starve and most of the time your starving because you believe in your work. I can see that you want to mediate this but science is science you either learn it or you don't. Copying something does not mean you have learned anything it takes long hours of study and research to find these things, and it's just not kitchen chemicals.First you must understand the process before you make any changes, and then you may find what you seek. Now if your looking for power and current it is going to be a converted lead battery without the acid. The Ions will move between the plates and form a new crystal of Alum and it will work for years, again it's just the way things work. The chemistry of the lead acid battery is well understood in the way it works, But the converted lead battery works far different without some of the side effects.
John

[Nick_Z]

All:
I don't read all the posts, and so I may have missed this video by Lidmotor (below), but in case that it has not made it here, I thought I'd post it now.
My thanks to all of you for these last few posts, maybe now we can get back to work on these projects, my head is spinning with ideas.
Also my thanks to John for taking the time to give some answers here, as some of us were wondering why you left this thread, your thread... Your team. Many of us have been following this thread for years, and working to replicate and develop some of your cells and ideas.

I just got 5 small 6" by 6" 9v solar panels, and 10 more discarded solar garden lights. As I don't have a proper storage battery, maybe some of these lead/Alum battery ideas can be used when charged from solar.

Solder/Alum battery video by Lidmotor:
Lidmotor's channel - YouTube

NickZ

[mikrovolt]

lead/alum with magnesium/alum assist

Since magnesium/alum can convert water and lead/alum is a rechargeable workhorse then an interesting combination might use both attributes together.
An alum/lead crystal cell that can self charge. It just gets better

[Allwest]

Well All,
You see I have played a fair game the whole time. I tried IB's method many times as I wanted to give it a fair shake, does not work for any type of current, well maybe at first but that's it. Chemicals are funny things. The Alum battery that has been running at my shop since all this was started is still running, yes the magnesium does slowly go but it packs the most power of all the metals used except lead.

Everything in this world is galvanic that is just nature. So you either except it or not. Now if your worried about Galvanic action then it is lead you seek, and I'm not kidding. Ib, you have kept on me from day one, in fact your still talking about me, what is it with you? If I built a kit you picked on that too, You must have no Idea how much things cost to manufacture now. I machined parts and run ovens that cost money, I just can't buy one stick of magnesium I must buy 100Pcs and the same for the copper. By the time every thing is done your lucky if you get 20% of that money.

Your best cell is Alum in a dry lead acid battery, proven time and time again why, Current to run things and it's fast recharged if you need to. I have experimented with many different cell just like B rads I know what is galvanic when I see it and I know the chemistry too. The two different plates in a lead acid dry battery will kick your butt and you can take it to zero volts without harm, try that with anything else.

The mixture is a little thicker then you think and maybe a pinch of Tartar. This is just plain chemistry. If you were worried about slowing down galvanic action then I'm surprised that B rads did not tell you the trick, what did they rub on zinc in the old days, and oh yes everybody has that in their bodys system anyway it's in the food. People my age probably chewed led paint right off the crib, I'm still here, but all the "New Agers" are dead at 30.

I would have continued with the Reid battery but it is a waste of my time with something that has no current and is very caustic. and what Ib was doing has no current either. You all need to pick something that can run real things in an emergency and that something must have current and be able to charge real fast, with solar or whatever. You could even do this with solder if the two pieces are different. So you have your answer from me.
here is your own Quote, All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhauer. Practice what you preach. and Oh, the lead acid battery never crossed your mind until Chuck and I showed it on youtube.

John & IB,

I am glad you two have came to an understanding, I was getting confused

As I understand this in my humble opinion, please correct me if I am wrong

John, you have decided to move on from the non-galvanic cell quest, and you are now working on galvanic cells, trying with R&D to make the best galvanic cell with the most power and the least amount of corrosion

IB, you have decided to stay with the non-galvanic cell quest, and thought that John was still on the same quest as you

WOW! I am sure glad that is over

IB, you have to keep in mind that we do this as a hobby, John does this for a living, you have won the discussion that John's cells are galvanic

So now its time to let John sell his work and try and capture some of the money he has spent on the R&D, without you continually stating the obvious

Your quest of a non-galvanic cell is a noble quest, that may some day pan out, and I am sure, at that time John will congratulate you on sticking with it


Best of luck to all

[Allwest]

To All,
Here is a list I found very interesting

Some one on the board had suggested placing a sacrificial anode in the cell, to protect the working metals, I thought that was a good idea


************************************************** ****
This is a list of metals in order from most to least reactive in sea water. If there are two metals near each other in salt water, the one which is the more reacive (a.k.a. "least noble") will corrode, thus protecting the other metal. This is why ships often put chunks of zinc (called "zinc lozenges") near the propeller---without the zinc, the steel hull would corrode very quickly as it is more reactive than the bronze propeller. The zinc is more reactive than steel even, so it will do all the corroding and the hull is protected. Of course you have to replace your zinc lozenges periodically, as they will corrode away to nothingness eventually.

From Most Noble (Protected Metals) to Least Noble (Corroded Metals):

Mercury
Vanadium
Gold
Silver
Monel
Nickel
Passivated Stainless Steel (rare type)
Copper
Brass
Tin
Lead
Active Stainless Steel (most common type)
Cast Iron
Steel
Aluminum
Zinc
Magnesium

Read more: What metal corrodes with salt water

Best of luck to all

[ibpointless2]

Real solid state crystal. John Bedini - YouTube
I was very excited about this as this is a real crystal cell. But what happen? Why did you go back to the alum cell? I even wrote in the journal I keep about crystal cells that John Bedini has done it, he has made a real cell that I can't argue with. I felt like a man like you with all your knowledge gave up to quickly so that he can get a cell that had more amps at a cost of its electrodes. The man I looked up to gave up too quickly when it seemed like he had it in his hands. I'm sorry John if I insulted you, I never meant to hurt you.

[br0ns0n77]

Here is a video of my clean battery powering 30 of these 12 volt automotive LED's.
Big Clean Crystal cell powering 30 12 Volt LED's - YouTube

IB - what is your mixture? Are you using the same thing John & Chuck are using in their automotive batteries?

[br0ns0n77]

3 small cells powering radio

Hey guys, just thought you might like to see something besides a LED being lit. I powered a small am/fm radio:

Magnesium Copper Crystal Batteries Power Radio - YouTube

[plengo]

This is actually quite a nice fuel cell having the components: catalyst, electrolyte, and electrodes.

Brad

well said.

Fausto.

[plengo]

After seeing all the talk on how water breaks down everything imaginable with no way to stop corrosion - I've noticed applying heat to my cells after they have been activated causes a rather substantial rise in mA. Would it make more sense to try and find combinations that would increase amperage when heat is applied rather than continuing down the road of corrosion? I could see several cells together in a black box absorbing heat in the sun producing more power than the water cells I've been reading about on here. Thoughts?

I like the idea a lot. Hey science. If one research shows signs of another progress we can also research, so we do it.

Having cells that under the heat and radiation of the sun produces power is an excellent idea. Those cells showing no correlation of power with load could indeed produce substantial amount of energy under the sun bypassing the power of bigger solar cells. Besides the cells love the outside environment such as humidity, heat, cold, bad weather and polluted air.

How much more dirt can a cell be with sand and carbon?

Fausto.