Bedini Earth Light

[redrichie]

Like rock candy, would the lead plates crow crystals. Rock candy is just sugar melted to saturation in a hot container of water. Would it be good or bad if it did build crystals on the plates.
John I have about 5 old batteries laying in the shed. What do I do with the old sulphuric acid? I want to dispose of it properly.

[Slider2732]

Hmmmm, sugars ! could that be it ?!
From cane to syrups, that's worth exploring with same metal cells. Even the high fructose corn stuff might gain a use, it's in everything else.
Sugar and alum appeals as a test. Mix as much as will dissolve in warmed distilled water, use the Ziploc wrapping and rubber bands and throw it in the sunlight.

Have paused for thought, while waiting for 2 lead plates to neutralize in Baking Soda. Am looking properly at photosynthesis.
Within the page here: Photosynthesis I see that there is a diagram with Magnesium at the middle.

[John_Bedini]

Alum Batteries

Mikrovolt,
It seem that you have some insight into all this. But your very correct in what your saying. The power sometimes goes out for days, and we have no Sun like some other states. Up north the jet stream just keeps it gloomy all the time during the winter. To developed a cell that can charge in low light would be very valuable for people. Now most just consider this just a hobby but when the time comes you better have something. I have friends here that just live on batteries and your right they are working overtime on how to make these cells. You need batteries that can take a very deep discharge and the bounce back as if nothing ever happened. at any time people could face power failures. Junk batteries and the plates can be used, Alum is cheap and easy to get at a spice house. The other thing is the positive plate is very important as that is the active material. Only 10% would survive a Solar Flair why, because they just think the power will always be, it will not always be here, just look at the past.

AMMONIUM ALUMINUM SULFATE known as food grade Alum can do some very strange things when it's used with Lead batteries, For one thing when combined with Lead plates can change it's impedance in the cell. for example it can change under charge to a very high impedance giving a liner charge curve which a lead acid battery can not do, During dis-charge it can change to a very low impedance to supply current for a very long time right to zero volts. you can not do that with a lead acid battery without serious damage. The other thing no acid is involved so it's safe to be around. Between all the videos posted by me and lidmotor and Slider people should be able to figure this out. Use the electron charts you will see where the power comes from.

Minimum charge gives power for a very long time, that is like backwards for batteries. Impedance is very important in cells for power and current. However as stated over on the Energy Science Forum by me one chemical is missing for the best electrolyte, and it think that missing chemical we have all used. One other thing you should study is how plants use the Sun to generate power in it's process. could be a battery without a Solar Cells charging it. so you have your hint. I post my video on the other forum as I help on the SG groups. Crystal Batteries
John B

In this figure 3.1 is photo of a lead cell (manchex type) study from Sandia labs:

http://www.azsolarcenter.org/images/docs/tech-science/papers/batteries/ch3.pdf

I believe a large mold to form lead positive plates is cost affective when you
consider the benefits of having a home made battery that you can do maintenance on. It makes sense, a trojan battery is good but a battery that has no acid and is easy to work on is better.

Maybe some of you have considered what a survivor battery design might
have and why our friends in Idaho are wasting no time in making this available.

video on manufacturing batteries:
How It's Made Deep Cycle Batteries - YouTube

[mikrovolt]

lead plates

In this figure 3.1 is photo of a lead cell (manchex type) study from Sandia labs:

http://www.azsolarcenter.org/images/docs/tech-science/papers/batteries/ch3.pdf

I believe a large mold to form lead positive plates is cost affective when you
consider the benefits of having a home made battery that you can do maintenance on. It makes sense, a trojan battery is good but a battery that has no acid and is easy to work on is better.

Maybe some of you have considered what a survivor battery design might
have and why our friends in Idaho are wasting no time in making this available.

video on manufacturing batteries:
How It's Made Deep Cycle Batteries - YouTube

[DadHav]

@All
I converted an old lead acid motocycle battery yesterday and had good luck. For real world power this makes more sense than trying to build one from scratch. I do find it very interesting to make the small cells with the raw materials just to see the process.

@DadHav
John-- I have not gotten any red lead yet but I did see it on Ebay. According to John Bedini you just mash it up into a water added paste, shove it into the plates, and then let it dry out.

Here is my motorcycle battery conversion from yesterday. Today I got the battery to charge up to over 11 volts.

Lead-Acid battery converted to Lead-Alum - YouTube

Lidmotor

Hello Rusty, I tried my first experiment with the lead. I have about 10 lbs of 50/50 solder that was my grandfathers. It might be 60 years old. I wrapped a couple pieces of plastic credit card with it. I didn't have much alum left so my mix was very light but I do have a few things to mention. I had the two plates separated with a few strips of double sided tape and then a band around them. I charged at about 200 ma, to 3.3 volts then the cell took a nose dive and there was nothing I could do to recover it. I went up in current and it shocked the coating off the lead. I took the plates apart cleaned them up a little then separated them with thin rubber fuel lines from R/C motors. This time the charge seamed to work. It seems like I couldn't charge higher than 2.8 volts and the drop was all the way down to .6 volts. However the little plates which where only slightly bigger than an inch had a dead short current of over 200 ma. An observation: The plates where separated about 1/8" and submerged. The plates had an even distribution of plating effect. What I mean is even the outside of the plates had the two different colors after charging. This makes me think that the chemical reaction was still happening on the outside of the plates. So do we loose potential by just using the inside faces of the plates with the cotton balls?
The other thing is, there must be a place to by alum. There should be a local source like pottery shops, paint store, garden supply or something so we can cut expense a little bit. I asked a lot of questions before but I think it would be nice to make a Lexan case with slots to drop the electrodes into, a removable top and proper venting would work nice. That way you could exeriment and change plates as you feel fit. Ha, or just use a battery like you and John did.
Thanks Rusty.
PS I have to get caught up, but when you say it charges faster do you mean you can use more current to charge or do you mean it charges faster than acid with the same current. If the battery could actually charge faster than a LAB and still have potential then maybe it would be a candidate for over unity experiments.
John Hav.

[Slider2732]

@Lidmotor - Excellent news there with the charging

@John - Thanks for the mention and for forwarding to all in your videos
After watching your latest vids, I changed a couple of things....and went with rubber bands, as they work !

The 'cellphone battery' sized 2 plate cell was taken apart again, to try an idea, that has worked very well.
After making the Alum/distilled water mix to a stronger slightly slippery feel in the fingers, the 2 cotton balls were resoaked in that solution. My previous mix was weaker, it's good to know the right ratio.
The sandwiched plates were then put in a Ziploc bag, the remaining part of the bag trimmed and the connection leads put through the zip area. It means the cell is plastic covered to limit moisture evaporation, is hand safe and can be checked readily for any Alum crystal growth or other effects over time.
3 rubber bands secure the assembly tightly. Easy to do.
It was reformed using the Electrifly R/C hobbyygrade Ni-MH/Ni-Cd charger at 450mA for 5 minutes. During that time, the cell fizzed and the zip section was left open to allow gas to escape. The bag was then closed again.
Sitting for 20 minutes, saw the voltage drop from approx 1.8V to 0.8V.
It was run down over 10 minutes with a blocking oscillator. Then charged on the charger at 200mA (the lowest setting).
3 charges later and running it to near flat each time, sees it sit after an hour at 1.6V and will recover well from any use, back to the voltage shown in the pic of about 1.45V.
The latest run has seen the oscillator run about as bright as the one in your vids John, for an hour. Very pleased with the increased strength of solution and method to test that was shown.




Fully charged voltage:

[Lidmotor]

Making a battery VS converting one

@All
I converted an old lead acid motocycle battery yesterday and had good luck. For real world power this makes more sense than trying to build one from scratch. I do find it very interesting to make the small cells with the raw materials just to see the process.

@DadHav
John-- I have not gotten any red lead yet but I did see it on Ebay. According to John Bedini you just mash it up into a water added paste, shove it into the plates, and then let it dry out.

Here is my motorcycle battery conversion from yesterday. Today I got the battery to charge up to over 11 volts.

Lead-Acid battery converted to Lead-Alum - YouTube

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Alum Conversion

Lidmotor,
Hope you do not mind I moved your video so it showed up center and that youtub would pick it up and the search engines.

Anyway, Forgot to say that make sure when washing the insulator out that no bridge shorts are stuck in the paper insulators. And what you can expect with a full charge is about between 1.8 volts to 1.9 volts per cell. That would make the alum cells stand at 10.8 to 11.5 volts depending on the condition. The nice thing about all this is no acid is involved.
@ Slider, Sorry did not see your video here, I did the same thing you did. So I gave you credit on the Energy Science forum as proof of concept.
How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery - Page 5
John B

[Allwest]

Another mix used on the Lead Acid battery


Lead Salt Battery - YouTube
Inside the Lead Acid Battery - YouTube
Best of luck

[Allwest]

@All
John Bedini did a great video on how to convert a regular lead acid battery to Alum. It is long but very detailed and walks you through all the steps.

Conversion Of A Dry-Charge Lead Acid Battery To an Alum Crystal Cell Battery John Bedini - YouTube



Lidmotor

Thanks Lid,

Hey John, very nice, thank you for your time

Lead is so easy to work with, I always wanted to try melting lead into a plate like yours, placing sand and or quartz on the bottom form, so it would be impregnated into the lead, it could be used as a spacer, but alas no time anymore for fun stuff

Thanks again John and chuck for your time
Best of luck

[DadHav]

Red Lead

Hello all.
I was wondering if we could talk a little more about the Red Lead.
How important is it to have it on the lead plates. Is it so important that you wouldn't want to make the lead only plates?
I've seen red lead for sale on E-Bay, but is there any substitute material or is there any way to get to oxide form by a chemical reaction or something?s?
John the video of making the battery and preparing the plates was really good and informative, but it was a little hard to follow the preparation of the red lead. Did you just mix a paste with water? It doesn't dissolve does it? Did you put the red lead on only one side of the plates? On all of them?
Rusty mentioned something about Cream Of Tartar. Did you use of this in your recent batteries, or just Alum?
You mentioned the two negative plates of the hand made battery in the video where smaller than the center plate. Are the two outside plates used because you want to take advantage of a chemical reaction beween both faces of the center plate? I would assume then, this is the reason the outside plates can be slightly thinner right.
I hope all the answers aren't scattered about on some of the pages but I didn't notice them while skipping through. I'm very sorry for just showing up all of a sudden and asking a lot of questions. If anyone cares to help me along with any of this I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks again John and everybody.
John Hav

[redrichie]

Not to be ignorant. But what are the advantages to an alum conversion of a lead acid battery? I understand there is no dangerous sulphuric acid. I see that it can take a fair amount of abuse. So does it charge quicker than L A ? Does the charge last as long as LA? Does it still gas?
Please help as I thoughtthe crystal battery was intended to be a device that didn't deteriorate or consume the cathode/anode . I mean obviously if this is the natural progression of the science than thomas Edison realised this long ago and our need for power required acid to facilitate the lead to move. A properly handled lead acid will last years if not abused. Even john has said this himself. So where does this go? Thanks guys.

[DadHav]

B_rads and All:
Sounds good, let us know how it goes with your homemade plates...

I was thinking that maybe what we can do, is to just find old car batteries, open them up and use their plates like Slider has done. The plates which are still in good shape. Otherwise just buy a new battery and fill it with Alum, like John suggested. Those that can afford to do that.
Auto-wreckers also sell used batteries much cheaper, especially ones that may not be 100% operational, for a few bucks. Motorcycle repair shops also.
The tire weights may also be melted down and any impurities of metals other than lead can be skimmed of also. As most LAB plates are not made of pure lead either.
You can also check online to buy new battery plates of all types. China sells them, but won't tell the price unless you e-mail them first. That may be easier, and possibly even better, than making and melting down our own. What we also need to determine is which of the two salts, Epsom, or Alum, is the best one to use, although they both may work. The bigger the plates are, the more output current, so bigger is better, although voltage is about the same.
If I'm not mistaken, John has mentioned that Alum is the best way to go, but for some of us, Epsom, can be obtained possibly easier from most drug stores. And cheaper?
Since Lithium cells are the densest and have the best output per weight, maybe old Lithium cells can also be opened up and looked into. Just wear a mask, snorkel and flippers, and don't breath.
Most of us use alkaline batteries, without knowing that they contain Mercury, Cadmium, and some other goodies in them as well. Well, there's probably worst things in the food we eat. But it tastes so good... MSG and all.
NickZ

Hello Nick. I noticed you mentioned LiPo batteries. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but they can be really dangerous. I know this for fact because I've incinerated a few. Shorting, piercing or over charging could cause some real grief. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. If you typed LiPo Fires in YouTube you might be surprised.
Take care.
John Hav.

[Lidmotor]

Regular Lead acid battery conversion

@All
John Bedini did a great video on how to convert a regular lead acid battery to Alum. It is long but very detailed and walks you through all the steps.

Conversion Of A Dry-Charge Lead Acid Battery To an Alum Crystal Cell Battery John Bedini - YouTube



Lidmotor

[Slider2732]

Forgot to mention in the top post of the page about rinsing with distilled water, after neutralising with Baking Soda..otherwise the battery would neutralize itself all the time ! Sorry about that.

Tests today have shown the most effective charging method so far, for the 2 plate 'cellphone' battery. I'm using an Electrifly Ni-CD/Ni-MH balancing charger at 200mA (lowest setting).
It charges in around 15 minutes and settles from 1.8V, with a slow discharge over an hour, to around 1.3V. Then, it drops very slowly indeed. But, can be dragged way low to about 0.6V when running stuff before I charge it...not really sure where to quit using it, but it's holding up. No real idea about capacity so far.
Useful pointers include that it takes longer to charge each time and seems to drop slower each time when used, or at rest. I believe that's a sign of capacity increasing and indeed the first charge it flashed an oscillator for only a few minutes when drained to 0.6V, but the last time flashed until i got bored with it after an hour.
It bounces back readily after being used with a heavy load.
This thing has replaced my Ni-MH usual batteries in worktable experiments.
I think it may be similar to Ni-Cd's, where the most power is available straight off the charger, but do expect all to be the same as any Alum converted car battery.

Anyhow, just to say that they can be charged readily and safely with such a hobby charger



@Lidmotor - good point about the crystals. I'll just farm them out to crystal cell reuse and redo with a couple more cotton balls. Would have been a good idea to use plexiglass or something to keep an eye on that