Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[RAMSET]

I picked up some measuring tools

I have a package for you
E mail Me
Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

Stainless Steel Ring

Well, the stainless steel is the way to go but it's no piece of cake. I found some .5mm flat stock 302 stainless in my inventory and have been playing with that. 302 is not my preference, but it was reasonably the right thickness; was stainless; and I had it available. The stainless is very rigid and will make a nice rigid ring if you are handy enough to make it into a ring without warping it. I used my dikes and they did cut it but did warp it a little. I had to go back and true up what I could on my vice and with a hammer. It's a real pain to work with but I will get it done and will have a nice ring to show soon. The wife wants me to paint a side of the house this week, so that is going to jam up my project for several days. I have some other things to do too but was hoping to get it all ready for tests by Wednesday. That probably won't happen now until next weekend. I'm not lazy just very busy with other tasks at home mostly for my better half. I'll keep you posted and get you a pic of my finished product as soon as possible.

[RAMSET]

I'm Impressed

Very nice solution to the problem! A method still needs to be put in place to Check the Tolerance ,1.725 shim stock and stock both sides of the Gap
1.700 thru 1.75
Nice I like your Gap technique!
You have to get a micrometer for the shims,I'm heading over to look at a job,
there's a harbor freight nearby ,I'll see what they have [remember seeing them Cheap ].

If they're cheap enough I'll pick one up for you? [My treat] a laser thermometer too ..
I have all sizes of shim stock ,but we might have to go with something "Soft"? {plastic Sheet}
We shall see.........................

Later
Chet

[Slovenia]

destroy device

Mr. "C" never mentioned this aspect. Of course I only asked about how to make the device.

I've done a lot of hydrogen work with all sorts of different water and the electrodes always suffered over time. I have very hard water where I live, so this will be interesting for me.

The materials being used in water and the presence of electricity...

Isn't this Critical? won;t electrolysis destroy the device??
does anybody here have an understanding of this?

?

[Slovenia]

Critical

Ring Thickness
You need to remember to add in the thickness of your material in your calculation of your OD diameter of your ring so you get an accurate circumference figure.

90 degree bend
You can make or break your gap with these two bends. If you make your bend wrong, you'll either add or subtract the thickness of your ring material and this will screw up your gap. Remember you have two 90 degree bends to make on both ends of your ring circumference material. The thicker your ring material the larger the margin for error.

I wanted to make sure everyone understood this. It's very important!!

The gap is critical and this has the potential of changing that big time.

The ring is the make or break deal.

[Slovenia]

Ring Measurements

Hi Chet,

Thanks again for your offer of the plating material.

Measuring & Praying
I wasn't measuring and praying but perhaps I should have been. I figured out the exact length of material I would need for my ring mathematically. Then I added on the amount of material I thought I would need on both ends for my extension to my mounting bracket. I figured out the exact length of material by using the following information. I knew the diameter of my can, so I added onto that twice the gap which was 1.725mm and the thickness of the material twice too. This give you the exact OD of the ring. Now you just half to figure the circumference of the ring and you'll have the exact amount of material you'll need for your ring. Now add onto that length the material you need on both ends of the ring to make your connection point to your bracket. You want extra material on both sides of your ring. So, figure out the exact amount of material you want on each end and mark that measurement with a scribe on your material. Start on one end of your material. Then add the length of the ring and finally the other excess material you'll need for the other end. Scribe both points where you'll need your 90 degree bends. Remember when you make your bend you are going to lose material too. With that information you will have a very precise ring. That's what I did but I did forget to add in the .2mm twice for the thickness of my ring. So, I made a small mistake. But, it's not a gosh and golly sort of thing. I highly recommend this method of measuring out your ring material.

Tin??
I just picked tin out of the blue because it is very easy to work with and I had a lot of it handy. Now that I look back, it was a very poor choice. I knew I could bend it easily and also solder it easily. I knew it wouldn't survive under water long but I was looking for a fast and loose method of getting my prototype on line for Mr. "C".

Ring material by Mr. "C"?
No, he never mentioned the exact type of material to use other than referring to it as a sheet of steel .2mm thickness and 5mm width.

You're doing a great job keeping life and interest in this thread!!


Yes, resist the urge to modify. I've seen modifications get poor results ever time. There's a good reason inventors do things the way they do.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

boguslaw [still getting use to that]

Well as I start My Build I suppose we will see this in action [adjusting the Tolerance]
I hope it can be done the way Slovenia is doing it [measuring and praying =.}
?

@Slovenia
Why did you use "Tin" or ferrous metal ?
Is this critical ?
Was the Ring material specifically mentioned By Mr.C??

Mr. C's Format as Perfectly as possible is an absolute necessity!
One thing I have learned form these forums... As much as you feel you might know a better way ...
Completely resist the urge to modify anything until you are satisfied you have seen the Affect!!

What ever he has going on with this device ,we need to see it ourselves and then Move on to .................??


Chet

[Slovenia]

.2mm Ring Thickness

The .2mm ring thickness has always bothered me too. I'll go with thicker and see what happens. I have copper too, so I can also experiment with that.

Very good information!!

Ring thickness should not be critical. The best imho would be brass ring or copper ring because of low resistance. The water inside gap will be the cause for 5-7 amps flowing.Personally , I believe ring thickness should be higher then 0.2mm which looks even to small for high current and can melt.

[RAMSET]

Very important question

The materials being used in water and the presence of electricity...

Isn't this Critical? won;t electrolysis destroy the device??
does anybody here have an understanding of this?

?

[RAMSET]

Brass or Copper sounds nice

boguslaw [still getting use to that]

I like it !!
This is the direction I felt would be Good in the beginning,only because its very easy to work.. as well as I can add dimension with the Plating machine very easily to absolute Perfection.. Machinist tolerances! So can anybody here ,as I said I will Teach you all you need to know to do this ,and supply you with the materials No charge. google brush plating you can do this with a piece of cotton a Graphite brush [armature brush]AAA bateries and the proper chemicals.

Well as I start My Build I suppose we will see this in action [adjusting the Tolerance]
I hope it can be done the way Slovenia is doing it [measuring and praying =.}
?

@Slovenia
Why did you use "Tin" or ferrous metal ?
Is this critical ?
Was the Ring material specifically mentioned By Mr.C??

I went to Ten places yesterday looking for the Can ,If this device works as advertised then I am quite sure The size doesn't matter and we will be able to calculate all manner of sizes for the "affect"!

But first The "Affect" has to be Manifested,and for this I feel sticking to Mr. C's Format as Perfectly as possible is an absolute necessity!
One thing I have learned form these forums... As much as you feel you might know a better way ...
Completely resist the urge to modify anything until you are satisfied you have seen the Affect!!

What ever he has going on with this device ,we need to see it ourselves and then Move on to .................??

Think about it....... If this works He has given us so much information
The can needs to be Super Thin ... The ring needs to be sized to allow for
power Draw [its a valve of sorts] if this works I am Quite sure all
will be linear to scale.
A given frequency will scale the whole shebang......

Sorry couldn't sleep

Chet

[boguslaw]

Ring thickness should not be critical. The best imho would be brass ring or copper ring because of low resistance. The water inside gap will be the cause for 5-7 amps flowing.Personally , I believe ring thickness should be higher then 0.2mm which looks even to small for high current and can melt.

[Slovenia]

Yes

Yes, I believe you are right.

I need to show a shot in the water probably by about mid week. So, I need to try and make a good 304L ring tomorrow. My 304L steel is about twice as thick as I need it to be and my grinder doesn't do that good a job at reducing metal evenly. That's going to be a long slender piece of steel to work on. Making it's radius perfectly round will be fun too. 304L steel is pretty tough. Also I've heard that 304L is not that conductive. Any comments on that? I want something that will work well; won't rust; and will last for a long time. These rings are way to hard to make to have to replace them every week.

That 1.725 mm gap is a bugger too. That is just to close.

He's waiting for the money shot ,The pic of the can running in the water!!
IMO he is going to have PLENTY to say!!

This is his Baby ,If we don't get it working He'll have a lot more to say!!

He will look like this --> <--

Chet

[RAMSET]

Money shot......

He's waiting for the money shot ,The pic of the can running in the water!!
IMO he is going to have PLENTY to say!!

This is his Baby ,If we don't get it working He'll have a lot more to say!!

He will look like this --> <--

Chet

[Slovenia]

Work

Hi Chet,

He reminded me that the can had to be tuned to 60 hz and that the gap was 1.725 mm for our application. He also mentioned that this width of ring should pull 5-7 amps and that the can would ring at 300 hz when operating.

I was hoping another suggestion might have been offered by Mr. "C" when he saw that I had made an attempt at building the device.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

PS
I really like the Part where you said Mr.C liked your work!!
Chet

[RAMSET]

Not sure about stainless!!

Perhaps someone with knowledge on Transmiters can comment?
I asked Ben 4Kvep to stop by but he was going on vacation till wednesday
[He's A long time radio operator].

??
Chet
PS
I really like the Part where you said Mr.C liked your work!!

[Slovenia]

Boiler

Mr. "C" said my boiler looked excellent.

I'm not happy with my ring though. I'm going to have to make another one before it goes into water. I'm studying my options and redesigning my ring. I'll probably use 304L stainless next trip with a complete redesign of bracket and ring.