Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Inner Edge

No, it's supposed to be straight. He does say to sand the edge from the outside putting a sort of bevel to it but, the way these cans are designed if cut straight across no thin material is going to be allowed to bevel inward past the perpendicular inside line of the can.

That was just a fast drawing he threw together for me.

Slovenia

The open and shows an Inner Ridge?
Is this the remains of the can end ?
Cut so as to leave an inner edge??

Thanks
Chet

[RAMSET]

Inward return at open end

Slovenia

The open and shows an Inner Ridge?
Is this the remains of the can end ?
Cut so as to leave an inner edge??

Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

Questions

Hi Boguslaw,
Your Questions:
1.) What container is suitable for boiling water ? I think it must be stainless steel but then.
Response:
Well, the inventor uses the aluminum beer can for his heater in Serbia and has done so for several years now according to him. According to him it works very well and there is no problem using the beer cans.

2.) How do you plan to connect electrical terminals and got it without leaking hot water?
Response:
The cup, beer can, is the positive electrode and the ring is the negative electrode. He has the cup, beer can horizontal within another container. The housing for the boiler has a water inlet and outlet. The outlet sends water to a heating radiator and a pump recirculates the water back to the heater and so on.

I guess it works very well. There are certain things I haven't asked him yet because I didn't want to frustrate him. I figured that once my boiler was finished he might share some more things with me.

3.) I would like to use cheap aluminium pot but then will have a problem with terminals, because at least one of them need to be put into hole drilled in side wall which is no flat :thinking
Response:
The hole for the beer can goes in the bottom of the beer can at dead center. There needs to be an insulator connected to the bottom of the beer can to help keep it at rigid as possible so it won't bump the negative cathode ring and short out the electrical.

P.S.: Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Diagram of Boiler from Contact:

I have a lot of questions.
What container is suitable for boiling water ? I think it must be stainless steel but then : how do you plan to connect electrical terminals and got it without leaking hot water ?

I would like to use cheap aluminium pot but then will have a problem with terminals, because at least one of them need to be put into hole drilled in side wall which is no flat

[boguslaw]

I have a lot of questions.
What container is suitable for boiling water ? I think it must be stainless steel but then : how do you plan to connect electrical terminals and got it without leaking hot water ?

I would like to use cheap aluminium pot but then will have a problem with terminals, because at least one of them need to be put into hole drilled in side wall which is no flat

[Slovenia]

Centering Hole

Well, centering the hole on the base of the can is no big deal after all. It does need to be centered on at least one side though but can be off on the other. Kind of like sighting in a scope. If it's off on both vertical and horizontal your screwed, but if you have it centered on vertical or horizontal, just turn the can till it's lined up with the ring connector hole on the mounting frame. This does need to be lined up so that you can get your ring adjusted right for the can. Now, connect your ring to the threaded rod mount and either adjust in or out until you're gap is equidistant all around the can.

Line:
Mark on one side of your can where the hole is centered with a fine magic marker. Have a center line drawn on the base of your frame lined up with a line drawn from your ring bracket hole down the back of the frame. These lines will help you get started right.

[Slovenia]

Centering hole in base of beer can

No, it effects the line up of the whole assembly. The holes in the frame have to be just right and if the hole in the can is off then the can will be setting right on the edge of the ring. To some degree we can adjust the ring from the side arm in and out, but the can is pretty much done if it's off center. If it's off center, you have to drill another hole in the frame assembly. You just don't have much play in that small ring.

My centering jig is taking to much time to mess with, so I'm going to have to do this another way.

@Slovenia
Yes I understand centering is a pain to do ,Are you saying it will effect operation or its hard to sand when its off center?

Thanks
Chet

[RAMSET]

Another very cool patent!!

Gordon thats sweet!!!!!!
Tried calling the inventor his number doesn't go thru??
Would love to talk to him and invite him here for a look see!

@Slovenia
Yes I understand centering is a pain to do ,Are you saying it will effect operation or its hard to sand when its off center?

Thanks
Chet

[Slovenia]

Making a Jig

I'm going to have to make a jig to get the hole centered in the bottom of the cans. Without a jig it's almost impossible. The hole has to be just right, perfectly centered.

[Slovenia]

Thanks

I understand. I've got three other experiments waiting on this one. This one just popped up out of nowhere and seemed to show the most promise.

Good Luck on your other experiments!!

@ Slovenia, I'm currently working on several projects at the same time...which in itself is a bit over my head...but hey, i love to experiment

so I am closely following your progress ...when i get done with a few of them experiment and research, I'll be able to focus on the heater

[MonsieurM]

@ Slovenia, I'm currently working on several projects at the same time...which in itself is a bit over my head...but hey, i love to experiment

so I am closely following your progress ...when i get done with a few of them experiment and research, I'll be able to focus on the heater

-------------------

@all, this you will like:

Frequency resonance heater - Google Patents

An AC voltage is applied to feeder end points of an electrode assembly enclosed within a body of liquid through which current is conducted to generate heat. The current path has a minimum effective length of a quarter wave antenna of the single wire dipole type from which electromagnetic wave energy is radiated at a radio frequency that is a harmonic of the alternating frequency of the AC voltage applied.

1. In combination with a source of electrical energy having a relatively low pulsating frequency, an electrical heater, comprising an elongated container, a body of liquid confined to the container, electrode means mounted in the container for establishing an electrical current path within the body of liquid from which heat is evolved, and power terminal means connecting the source to the electrode means at fixedly spaced feeder end points between which the path extends for establising resonance conditions under which electromagnetic waves are propagated within a frequency band having a relatively high fundamental frequency that is a harmonic of the relaively low frequency of the source to generate said heat within the body of liquid.

2. The combination of claim 1 wherein said current path has a minimum length corresponding to a quarter wavelength dipole antenna from which energy is radiated at the fundamental frequecy of 223.5 MHz, where the frequency of the source is 60 Hz.

3. In combination with an AC source of electrical energy having a predetermined alternating frequency, an electrical heater, comprising an elongated container, a body of liquid confined to the container, electrode means mounted in the container for establishing an electrical current path within the body of liquid, and power terminal means connecting the source to the electrode means at fixedly spaced feeder end points between which the path extends for establishing resonance conditions under which electromagnetic waves are propagated within a radio frequency band having a relatively high fundamental frequency that is a harmonic of the frequency of the source, said current path between the feeder end points having a minimum length of 12 inches corresponding to a quarter wavelength dipole antenna from which energy is radiated at the fundamental frequency of 223.5 MHz, where the frequency of the source is 60 Hz.

check it out for the principle in action

[Slovenia]

Excited

Yes, I'm pretty excited about this too. Mr. "C" says the tune is paramount or it's useless. So, there you have it and the rest of the build is not a walk in the park either because of the close tolerances. Have fun!!

[RAMSET]

There's no Hurt feelings in base ball!!

We gonna Knock this one outta the Park!!

In your PDF Mr.C tells us How to Tune.......
Next to your computor as it transmitts your Mains Frequency!!

Several members here have given the same advice [transformer Hum
ETC...........]
Don't tune a Sensitive instrument to some one elses Frequency and expect success.

Gotta Go to NY [work]
See Yah
Chet
PS
In the PDF Mr.C uses a word {in the tuning section] that seems to Imply EXTREME sensitivity!!
I just realized I've been asking the wrong guy for antennae advice!
Ben 4Kzep is the guy for this. I will beg His eyes to have a look [maybe the rest of him will follow]

[Slovenia]

Simplicity

Hi Chet,

I wasn't trying to insult anyone with my post. You are right, this is the easiest looking project we've had ever. I just wanted everyone to know that fabrication skills are necessary on this one. Thank God we don't have all the electronics of some of the other projects. I can handle this type of replication a lot easier. Warpage in the ring is I think what will get most folks if all the other alignments don't. The ring is 5 mm wide and the flat is about 10.5 inches long once bent, so when you try to radius it, it has a mind of it's own. All the various layers if you use steel can material want to go their own direction. Any deviation in the ring is very bad because the gap is so close. I'm still thinking that at least two stabilizers will be needed to hold the ring steady. The ring doesn't need to vibrate, so steadying it at two different points shouldn't affect it's working ability.

Anyway, I was just trying to say that this easy project will probably stump most of the guys trying to make it. No offense was intended to you Chet.

(Brazing with high heat solder.) I had to hold my parts together with a large vice and it was acting like a heat sink not allowing me to solder with a soldering iron. My blow torch was talking back to me when I made that solder attempt. I'm not proud of the way it looks but making things look attractive also take a lot more time and I want this baby on line as soon as practically possible.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia
Yes I believe Mr.C has some wicked fabricating skills!!
I believe Harbor frieght sells some inexpensive Micrometers. To me the hardest part in all of this will be maintaining the "Gap" perfectly around the circumference of the can. Putting a Mic or vernier caliper to this can will be ruff as well as the ring ID.

All things being said ,Its a lot easier than trying to build A TK device with
A hundred or more unknown components Circuit boards from old Russian Tv's And
Soyuz space capsuls ETC............

I also believe This pulsing Coil......Will teach us a lot .

This is A gift..............
And I will give you back the Gift of a sincere replication attempt.

Thank you
Chet
PS
I went looking in my area again {CT} for cans
I found really big 12" .7 litre [to wide]
And tall pepsi size {6"} they start to Curve in about 1/2 inch from the top
I am determined to find the european cans.
And I know they will be in the City!
PPS
i Just saw your post above THAT LOOKS GOOD!!
Are you Brazing?? Sodering??

[RAMSET]

Micrometer

Slovenia
Yes I believe Mr.C has some wicked fabricating skills!!
I believe Harbor frieght sells some inexpensive Micrometers. To me the hardest part in all of this will be maintaining the "Gap" perfectly around the circumference of the can. Putting a Mic or vernier caliper to this can will be ruff as well as the ring ID.

All things being said ,Its a lot easier than trying to build A TK device with
A hundred or more unknown components Circuit boards from old Russian Tv's And
Soyuz space capsuls ETC............

I also believe This pulsing Coil......Will teach us a lot .

This is A gift..............
And I will give you back the Gift of a sincere replication attempt.

Thank you
Chet
PS
I went looking in my area again {CT} for cans
I found really big 12" .7 litre [to wide]
And tall pepsi size {6"} they start to Curve in about 1/2 inch from the top
I am determined to find the european cans.
And I know they will be in the City!
PPS
i Just saw your post above THAT LOOKS GOOD!!
Are you Brazing?? Sodering??

[Slovenia]

My Ring Assembly

This is what my ring assembly looks like. This is my third bracket design and I've already designed a better one than this. The bracket must be very rigid and secure to prevent vibration causing the ring and cup to make contact.