Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[PhysicsProf]

Well if you would like to talk about that it is a pet subject "using two different frequencies". When this is done you can hit a point that generates a wide band of frequencies which do not trail off in power as the frequencies go up "the stair effect". When you get this the energy in those frequencies when added up are in fact greater than the original input of the two frequencies.

I am on skype centraflow or e-mail [email protected]

Mike

Good to hear from you, Michael -- I have a great deal of respect for your work, and have discussed it with Andrew M. I hope to get back to this in more detail fairly soon -- now involved in two other projects! I've thought of ways of bringing in the two freq's... in these projects also!

Thanks for your comment also, Rob.

[TEKTRON]

Thanks for the information, Rob! a lot of good info.

I'm wondering about a simple gas-powered-motor generator, say 800 Watts max, that one can buy for about $140 here. Is the output frequency controlled by a governor on the gas-engine?

Yes, it is. and it is not very stable under varying loads. Just dropped in. Ive not been keeping up with the thread, but I saw a question I could answer. Good luck guys

[Michael John Nunnerley]

frequency mixing and hitting the right point

So how do you "vary your AC frequency "? I'm interested, evolving...
I've done some tests with two coils running at different frequencies (from signal generators) then watching the beat frequencies using a pick-up coil... quite interesting alright!
Wondering if a guy could do this with a Tesla coil... So many avenues to pursue!

Well if you would like to talk about that it is a pet subject "using two different frequencies". When this is done you can hit a point that generates a wide band of frequencies which do not trail off in power as the frequencies go up "the stair effect". When you get this the energy in those frequencies when added up are infact greater than the original input of the two frequencies.

I am on skype centraflow or e-mail [email protected]

Mike

[wrtner]

Thanks for the information, Rob! a lot of good info.

I'm wondering about a simple gas-powered-motor generator, say 800 Watts max, that one can buy for about $140 here. Is the output frequency controlled by a governor on the gas-engine?

I doubt that such a controller would be accurate enough. With the
basic Peter daysh Davey device (i.e. not this one), tuning is crucial.
I expect it is crucial in this case also.

Earlier on in this thread there is a design for starting with DC, getting into
an inverter and putting in an adjustment for output frequency.
Paul-R

[AhuraMazda]

Variable Frequency Inverter

If we cut through the chase, here is a basic inverter that works:

[PhysicsProf]

Thanks for the information, Rob! a lot of good info.

I'm wondering about a simple gas-powered-motor generator, say 800 Watts max, that one can buy for about $140 here. Is the output frequency controlled by a governor on the gas-engine?

[evolvingape]

Hi Professor,

Volume II - AC : All About Circuits

Three-phase power systems : POLYPHASE AC CIRCUITS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz

AC waveforms : BASIC AC THEORY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_motor

Steam turbine generator speed control - clarification

Anyway, you do not really need to know all that to use the information practically. If you set up a Pelton Turbine and connect a 3 phase (6 Pole) alternator to the output shaft you have created a miniature power generation plant. Because the turbine is powered by water, and your tap has a flow control valve, you can change the power input to the turbine, increase or decrease the amount of water spinning it. This gives you variable control over the turbines RPM (N), so with an alternator directly coupled to the turbine in a 1:1 ratio when you alter the RPM of the turbine you alter the RPM of the alternator, and thus the frequency of the AC sinusoidal waveform generated. For a fixed load such as an electrode boiler you will of course alter the power being supplied to it, but we are not interested here in the amount of power we are supplying to the resistive load, we are researching resonant frequency effects. So if you were to plot your results for all speeds of N they would follow a fixed relationship, any resonant effects would be anomolous and not follow the line of best fit.

You can easily measure the RPM of the drive shaft using a laser tachometer:

Clarke CT1 Digital Laser Tachometer - Machine Mart

laser tachometer | eBay

Much cheaper on ebay

Tesla turbine made from hard drive platters. - YouTube

Reflective tape placed on the rotating shaft (painted black for accurate readings) gives you a digital readout of complete rotations, 360 = 1 cycle

So if the shaft was spinning one complete 360 degrees in 1 Second the frequency of the shaft would be 1 Hertz, however because your alternator has 3 phases per complete 360 degree revolution (120 degrees apart), you have to realise that there are 3 sinusoidal waveforms being generated that are superimposed, one is 120 degrees ahead, and one is 120 degrees behind.

If you were now to add a second alternator to the same shaft, but alter it's relationship to the driven turbine RPM speed by using a step up or step down gearbox, you would be able to run both alternators in a fixed harmonic relationship, because a harmonic is achieved everytime you double the frequency. So the simplest way to do this is by using a pulley and belt with a ratio of 2:1, which would mean that for every 360 degree rotation of the shaft, your second alternator would spin 720 degrees, or in other words at twice the frequency of the first alternator. This relationship is fixed to shaft RPM, unless you change the pulley ratios (circumference of pulley), so it is not only fully flexible, it is fully accurate.

And the beauty of this system is, that you control the frequency of AC generated simply by opening or closing the valve on your tap. If you were for example to set up an electrode boiler with 2 positive plates and a common ground, with each alternator wired to a different positive electrode, you would be superimposing two harmonic frequencies on the common ground electrode, and generating two separate frequencies that are harmonically related in the fluid between the respective positive electrodes.

You can of course use oscilloscopes to also monitor the waveforms, it is good scientific practice to take as many measurements as is practically possible, and when your researching an anomolous effect it is the only course of action that complies with the scientific method, and gives results that can be analysed. The temperature plots over time, either positive or negative, will show you any anomolous effects because they will deviate from the control plots.

Hope that helps

Rob

P.S. If you go to the trouble to construct this relatively simple apparatus, you also now have a fully operational power generation plant in your home that runs off water pressure!

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2781-wood-gasification-2.html

[PhysicsProf]

Just a quick note, I have been playing with some ideas and have come up with a new concept you guys might be interested in. It may be possible to vary your AC frequency using these ideas. Also if you choose to run two identical water power generators and wire them into the same boiler you could set two different variable frequencies on two separate rings. Two different frequencies is what some plasma researchers are finding creates anomolous effects, as noted in those links I posted.
...
All you sink scientists have fun now!

RM

So how do you "vary your AC frequency "? I'm interested, evolving...
I've done some tests with two coils running at different frequencies (from signal generators) then watching the beat frequencies using a pick-up coil... quite interesting alright!
Wondering if a guy could do this with a Tesla coil... So many avenues to pursue!

[evolvingape]

Just a quick note, I have been playing with some ideas and have come up with a new concept you guys might be interested in. It may be possible to vary your AC frequency using these ideas. Also if you choose to run two identical water power generators and wire them into the same boiler you could set two different variable frequencies on two separate rings. Two different frequencies is what some plasma researchers are finding creates anomolous effects, as noted in those links I posted.

The electrical output is not going to be huge at a potential 30 - 50 Watts (I am hoping for) but it may work to your advantage with the baseline water control test heating slower and so any anomolous heating will show up and be more obvious.

This is the gasifier thread my mind kinda wandered into, it's only short, but I hope you all like the concept.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2781-wood-gasification.html

All you sink scientists have fun now!

RM

[evolvingape]

Some more interesting reading:

http://www.maik.ru/full/lasphys/98/1/lasphys1_98p172full.pdf

Zeitschrift für Angewandte Mathematik und Physik (ZAMP), Volume 14, Number 6 - SpringerLink

RM

[evolvingape]

Some interesting reading:

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/740561.pdf

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk3/SSU/TC-SSU-12182003161103.pdf

RM

[boguslaw]

Can water become resonant ? I believe this is what happening inside sonic boiler.
Water keeps heat and sustaining it require much lower electrical and mechanical energy applied to water. This is water resonance method !

[boguslaw]

Boguslaw, I'm curious about what you said:



Are these "sellers in [your] country" available for purchase, and for testing?
If so, please provide information regarding what company makes them and how one could go about buying them...
And thanks for this interesting information!
--Steven Jones

Ok will see what I can do for you, but I won't contact that company.

[PhysicsProf]

Boguslaw, I'm curious about what you said:

I have even found two sellers in my country with similiar electrode boilers with additional vibration energy (mechanical) tapping.One even got patent in 1992 for extremally simple device with assumed COP of 4-5 : a set of meshes with a lot of holes each set for one phase of power grid AC and between another meshes with ground connection. I estimate that water flowing through it and electric wattage (huge of course) would produce acoustic vibration of meshes and "energetize" water in closed loop system.

Are these "sellers in [your] country" available for purchase, and for testing?
If so, please provide information regarding what company makes them and how one could go about buying them...
And thanks for this interesting information!
--Steven Jones

[boguslaw]

I've been avoiding this for a length of time that should be adequate for at least one person to properly replicate the mystery persons concept by now...

Before I read almost fifty pages of fluff,
has anyone succeeded with a replication ?

I only ask because all the tuning fluff was occurring in only air,
which has NOTHING to do with actual resonance WITH WATER.

Normally I would just make a few sandwiches and just read it all,
but I became sceptical early on due to incomplete data availability...

After reading all and figthing with many theories I must confess that even if neutrinos theory cannot be dismissed I simply think this is all about acoustic energy tapping additionally to electric heating . I'm very slow in building anything so I have little progress.
If I'm correct that kind of heater is good in closed water system with not big amount of water circulating.I have even found two sellers in my country with similiar electrode boilers with additional vibration energy (mechanical) tapping.One even got patent in 1992 for extremally simple device with assumed COP of 4-5 : a set of meshes with a lot of holes each set for one phase of power grid AC and between another meshes with ground connection. I estimate that water flowing through it and electric wattage (huge of course) would produce acoustic vibration of meshes and "energetize" water in closed loop system.

Closed loop system is important and a thin walls to allos mechanical vibration and sound producing when large current is flowing and steam is around electrodes (air -like situation,do you see ?)

Sorry,my english is not very good : by meshes I think about of metal thin plate with a lot of holes, like sieve