Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[khabe]

Wind down, redrichie



I have no idea is it permitted to use word like SUPERCAP or ULTRACAP in this forum. In Overunity this is strongly tabooed, I got several warnings and finally my messages have been blocked because repeatedly did mention Supercap ... at the same time there are tens of videos in YouTube where they openly show using SUPERCAP, hereby one sample:
YouTube - ‪Looped Muller walkabout.ASF‬‏
Supercaps are for 2.5...2.7V, 10F ... 20F even 200F supecap you can buy for $10, 20 Farad Super Capacitor Electric Double Layer x 10 pcs | eBay
200F Farad Super Capacitor Electric Double Layer x2 pcs | eBay
2600F 2.5V Supercap; 2600 Farad Super/Ultra Capacitor | eBay
but audio PowerCaps are 12V (20...24V) at 1 Farad to 10 Farad,
Hollywood 10Farad Powercap 10F HE1010 NEU+GARANTIE | eBay
But of course - "fine tuning" is necessary - as higher efficient pulse motor as longer it runs, as higher efficent is generator side, as longer it runs,
Unfortunately not endless
It does not matter is it Muller, Bedini, Adams or so on style,
cheers,
khabe,

[redrichie]

Khabe.......
Seriously I listened to your constant B.S. over at OU forum for over a hundred pages. We do not need to hear ANYTHING you have to say. If you had good constructive criticism or anything helpful to say then you would have said it long ago. Science needs skepticism but not a naysayer even in the face of scientific facts. If you need something to do because your bored please take up a forum with a book club or something. You trash talk, your constantly negative, and give NO respect to the replicators or inventors of devices. I feel you find no tolerance of that here. I have wasted enough of my time with this brief message. You will be ignored then banned. Trust me your kind never lasts that long here.

[khabe]

Someone got he wished
Be happy,
But shame is shame anyway,
cheers,
khabe

[n84dafun]

That's A work of art
congratulations

Hi @rod, and @elias,

Thanks! It took a while to build, but it could still use some improvements. The rotor is made of White King Starboard Polymer HDPE I got in eBay.

The rotor is 1/2 inch thick. It's very easy to work with wood tools and machines just like wood, but it will melt at high tool rotational speeds. Initially, I just used one layer (1/2 inch thick) for the rotor, but it was somewhat wobbly sideways, so I cut two small circles with a hole saw and placed it at the center of both sides of the rotor for more sideways stability. The rotor shaft hole is tapped for the 1/4 inch diameter threaded brass rod shaft, secured by washers and nuts. I used roller skate bearings with the included plastic tube spacers to center the shaft, since the brass threaded rod shaft is smaller than the hole (5/16 inch) of the bearing.

One improvement would be to remove all the metal screws securing the FWBR's and just superglue it onto the acrylic, because right now it is vibrating really badly and noisily from the magnetic influence of the rotor. I also need to sand down the edge of the rotor because it's not perfectly round as you can see from the rotational wobble in the video.

I have gotten the voltage to around 12 to 13 volts and it is not as noisy at the higher speeds.

-brian

[elias]

Hi,

Here are a couple pics and a YouTube video of my replication. I haven't measured the input and output amps yet. I also need to tweak it so that the rotation increases when I short the circuit, as RomeroUK suggested. At this point, with only magnets on one coil-pair, it lugs down when I place an 8 ohm resistor (25 Watts) across the cap. So it's not really shorted as a say in the video. Each FWBR is paralleled with 4 2N4007 diodes.

All the generator coils are connected in parallel and connected to the 47000 uF capacitor. What you see on the scope is the output at the cap. I'm waiting for my DC/DC 3-Amp converter from Walmart, and also my tachometer.

-brian

YouTube - ‪2011 06 14 00 53 51 474‬‏

Nice Work Brian!
May I ask you what material is your rotor made of?
I want to build a new rotor, so your advice will be helpful.

[toranarod]

Hi,

Here are a couple pics and a YouTube video of my replication. I haven't measured the input and output amps yet. I also need to tweak it so that the rotation increases when I short the circuit, as RomeroUK suggested. At this point, with only magnets on one coil-pair, it lugs down when I place an 8 ohm resistor (25 Watts) across the cap. So it's not really shorted as a say in the video. Each FWBR is paralleled with 4 2N4007 diodes.

All the generator coils are connected in parallel and connected to the 47000 uF capacitor. What you see on the scope is the output at the cap. I'm waiting for my DC/DC 3-Amp converter from Walmart, and also my tachometer.

-brian

YouTube - ‪2011 06 14 00 53 51 474‬‏

That's A work of art
congratulations

[n84dafun]

My RomeroUK-Muller Dynamo Replication

Hi,

Here are a couple pics and a YouTube video of my replication. I haven't measured the input and output amps yet. I also need to tweak it so that the rotation increases when I short the circuit, as RomeroUK suggested. At this point, with only magnets on one coil-pair, it lugs down when I place an 8 ohm resistor (25 Watts) across the cap. So it's not really shorted as a say in the video. Each FWBR is paralleled with 4 2N4007 diodes.

All the generator coils are connected in parallel and connected to the 47000 uF capacitor. What you see on the scope is the output at the cap. I'm waiting for my DC/DC 3-Amp converter from Walmart, and also my tachometer.

-brian

YouTube - ‪2011 06 14 00 53 51 474‬‏

[electr0n]

@gyula
Thanks for the tips
I will try the diode config to up the voltage, my coils are wound 250T .5mm each..due to the unavailability of litz, ill see how far i can take this particular coil then move to the next. The gap between the rotor/stator is 4.0mm. I really do think my biasing neos are too strong as some ive spaced out 5-6mm from the stator (with bits of rubber car tube cut into pieces).
Also putting the generator on a couple of layers of thick carboard reduces the noise considerably if your doing 2000 rpm load tests at 2.00am
@toranarod
Great looking circuit with many possibilities, especially harmonics and resonance, i often try to visualize these circuits in the audio spectrum. ie wine glass breaking with tones, making metal tubes resonate etc, then convert it to higher spectrums utilizing the same principal.
one of my future experiments ill put 40-50 or more piezo`s around the stator and make use of the low rpm vibration hah
back to it, good luck @ all
Jim

[gyula]

Hi Jim,

I think you have nice progress and let me quote Romero from the ou forum what he wrote to member penno64, (I think you may have read it though):

Let me make something clear for all: you will not have OU using a single collector coil or even if you do there will be no chance to closeloop, at least not in a non solid state version.
Combining the drive coil with the collector coil can take you to OU but still without chances to selfloop.
If it is possible then I have not achived that and I don't know.
Even if someone here will manage to build a device to run itself and that person will post all info about it, that will not necessarily be enough to be replicated.
I can tell you from my own experience, many times, I find myself in a position where I cannot easy replicate my own experiments.
Once something is done properly then we need the masters in theory to jump on and do the proper maths, then having full understanding everyone can do easy replications.
In my case I hate to do that, I am more practical than anything else.


So just continue inserting and optimizing further generator coil pairs and while doing so, try to change rotor RPM a bit up or down to explore the best combination possibilities. (You may change RPM by varying input DC supply voltage.)

Your output voltage sounds low in value, maybe you have to increase gen coil turns number? Or maybe use a full wave voltage doubler (of course output power will not double), it involves only 2 diodes instead of the 4 bridge diodes.

Sorry for chiming in...

Gyula

On my replication so far...
I have 1 generator coil enabled for testing, waveshape close to romeros with a few wobbly bits, approx 1200rpm 12v 200mA.
with no biasing magnets theres no-one home voltage wise, but a little current (3x 10mm leds in parallel = load on dc side of generator coil)
after trying many capacitor combinations in parallel with the ac side of the generator coil i found a trend with the biasing magnets. The more magnets i add...the more the voltage/current goes up, rpm stays nominal, to bring the coil pair to resonance again i need more capacitance...adding more capacitors brings the voltage/current up more..all this is ok till the coil gets saturated with the bundle of magnets/caps and the rpm drops slightly.
when ive added to much capacitance the current/voltage drops.

output 2.5v 70mA 16uF ac cap and 4x 20mmx10mm N46 neos biasing
output 2v 15mA 3uF ac cap and 1 x neo magnet biasing

Interestingly the waveshape on the first output reading is messy .. i seem to loose the shape at 2v 20mA as it starts to show undercoupling.
I guess theres a spot where just before the waveshape goes wonky to set the cap/magnet ratio`s max and move to the next coil.
Ill try a heavier load like a 1 ohm resistor next
all the best and keep up the great work
Jim

[Farmhand]

Cool idea Rod, I can't wait to see that video, the cascading voltages. Brilliant If that works I will have to seriously build one. And get the some of the stuff made professionally. Umm a big one too.

[electr0n]

On my replication so far...
I have 1 generator coil enabled for testing, waveshape close to romeros with a few wobbly bits, approx 1200rpm 12v 200mA.
with no biasing magnets theres no-one home voltage wise, but a little current (3x 10mm leds in parallel = load on dc side of generator coil)
after trying many capacitor combinations in parallel with the ac side of the generator coil i found a trend with the biasing magnets. The more magnets i add...the more the voltage/current goes up, rpm stays nominal, to bring the coil pair to resonance again i need more capacitance...adding more capacitors brings the voltage/current up more..all this is ok till the coil gets saturated with the bundle of magnets/caps and the rpm drops slightly.
when ive added to much capacitance the current/voltage drops.

output 2.5v 70mA 16uF ac cap and 4x 20mmx10mm N46 neos biasing
output 2v 15mA 3uF ac cap and 1 x neo magnet biasing

Interestingly the waveshape on the first output reading is messy .. i seem to loose the shape at 2v 20mA as it starts to show undercoupling.
I guess theres a spot where just before the waveshape goes wonky to set the cap/magnet ratio`s max and move to the next coil.
Ill try a heavier load like a 1 ohm resistor next
all the best and keep up the great work
Jim

[toranarod]

Hey Toranarod,

I agree we have all this technology out there that more of us need
to replicate to either increase awareness and/or power your home
in the process.

I'm sure there is many of us out there replicating these inventions to
help raise people understand what we have lost.
For example, a simple "Crystal Radio" set can obtain enough power
to recieve stations from the air (or power lines ) and when I made
this about 5 years ago I was inspired.
When I showed people this simple design and that it was heavily
ulitized during the war then the profit motive decided that we needed
to pay!!!

This was the realization that we did have electric cars 100 years ago
before the big V8/ oil industry really took off. Now they have finally
resurfaced with the EV1 in 1996 and now the "Tesla Roadster/Sedan".
They did have the EV grey motor in the 70's before my time but all
the information I have obtained on it was it worked but was phased
out.

I have a few projects on but the Muller design will be engineered in the
not to distant future. Clearly, the self runner feature generated from the
stored energy in the coils/capacitors while still obtaining a steady output
has amazing potential.
The portable generator market is the obvious main use but even a low
voltage use like powering a laptop and many others.

Good luck with the project I will keep up with the progress of all and
will add some pics when I have time to engineer a model.

Regards
Zero

hope you can find some time soon.
looking forward to any research. This stuff fills my hole day with ideas and experiments

cheers

[toranarod]

test under load

Hi Rod

Hope i could rebuild my unit to demonstrate newer principles in the coming days, but I am sure that you will make it, it can be done and will be done.

Please do this experiment:
First Run your motor at about less than 1000 RPM or even much less.
Measure the RPM drop when connecting one of your generator coils to a lamp.
Measure the RPM drop when shorting one of your generator coils.
Shorting should cause much more drag in the system, because of the higher current drawn.

Secondly, Run your motor higher than about 3000 RPM, or even more.
Measure the RPM drop when connecting one of your generator coils to a lamp.
Measure the RPM drop when shorting one of your generator coils.

In this case you should notice that loading it with a lamp will drag more than shorting it. This is what defies the Lenz Law, and this is the effect that will bring free energy.

If your don't get the results that should be, try experimenting with different RPMs.

This effect is what I have noticed by using ferrite cores, but if you use Iron cores, you will see that if your short the coils acceleration happens in higher speeds. Iron imposes large eddy currents that drag the rotor significantly, so I discourage people from using it.

Edit: I have said this many times, and will say it again, my theory is that the time constant L/R is more when shorting the coils (because of smaller R), and when the speed goes up, the delay becomes significant, and causes less drag (Lenz is left behind). Why Iron Cores make this effect turn to acceleration I don't know but it might be because of lessening the eddy effect as many have proposed. If my theory is correct you can even neutralize the drag after a certain speed. Speeds as of 3000-4000 RPM is enough if you want to extract the energy when the magnet approaches the coil, because the attraction to the core also helps this, and repulsion is a lower force than attraction. Odd even design also aids to this effect, charging capacitors, also is a better idea, rather than loading it directly.

Good Luck.

I am designing new stators, to demonstrate this, I want you guys to build it!
I don't want to be like some who only talk and do nothing.

Elias

Hi Elias,
Been reading through your post. Sounds feasible and I am eager to dedicate some time to this experiment. I have on my bench ready to go a multi neo magnet and multi iron core coil motor generator that I see will be perfect for this experiment given the specifications you have outlined. I always enjoy doing some research with fellow OU enthusiast. I hope you are able to reconstruct your unit as soon as possible because these are your theories and ideas and no one knows them better than you. I would be more than happy to do a side-by-side test setup.

Good luck with your rebuild, Rod

[ZeropointEnergy]

agree

That why I do this not for the people that can afford to buy energy for those who cannot.
I am one of those who cannot. I started this research over 6 years ago when I could not pay my electric bill. I was angry and frustrated. I was being priced into poverty so i decided to fight back.

History has alway demonstrated all good Ideas have flourished in the hands of the majority who could least afford it.
Thats why they fear bringing electric cars on to the market. its about what happens when they become second and third had cars and after market
equipment. flourishes in the bottom end of the market. the poor are the majority and the rich are the minority. Thats what they are scared off.

I will share all information on this experiment.
I wish I could help. if when I have a successful motor i will send you my old prototype.

Hey Toranarod,

I agree we have all this technology out there that more of us need
to replicate to either increase awareness and/or power your home
in the process.

I'm sure there is many of us out there replicating these inventions to
help raise people understand what we have lost.
For example, a simple "Crystal Radio" set can obtain enough power
to recieve stations from the air (or power lines ) and when I made
this about 5 years ago I was inspired.
When I showed people this simple design and that it was heavily
ulitized during the war then the profit motive decided that we needed
to pay!!!

This was the realization that we did have electric cars 100 years ago
before the big V8/ oil industry really took off. Now they have finally
resurfaced with the EV1 in 1996 and now the "Tesla Roadster/Sedan".
They did have the EV grey motor in the 70's before my time but all
the information I have obtained on it was it worked but was phased
out.

I have a few projects on but the Muller design will be engineered in the
not to distant future. Clearly, the self runner feature generated from the
stored energy in the coils/capacitors while still obtaining a steady output
has amazing potential.
The portable generator market is the obvious main use but even a low
voltage use like powering a laptop and many others.

Good luck with the project I will keep up with the progress of all and
will add some pics when I have time to engineer a model.

Regards
Zero

[toranarod]