Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[khabe]

This motor has spun the rotor at 3450000rpm-THREE AND A HALF MILLION RPMS and believe it or not,the rotor went supersonic and exploded.
He can only achieve this high rpm by delaying Lenz using principles based on

Centripetal Force
Some calculators:

https://www.msu.edu/~venkata1/gforce.htm?box0=&box1=&box2=&result2=&box3=&result1=&TextBox=

g force (RCF) Calculation - KUBOTA
cheers,
khabe

[jonnydavro]

I'm surprised that Slayer and Jonny D. are not envolved in this project. Maybe they are and are just not saying anything.

Hi Lidmotor .I am not working on this yet but hope to try a few things out soon.I have been away on holiday and on the way back from the airport the cambelt snapped in my car and valves hit pistons and all that kind of stuff and it has taken me 3 weeks to fix it but i have followed this thread from the start and it has been a great to see all the hard work people have put in.
My first experiments i think will be coil shorting.I will use my pendulum as i have a circuit which feeds back to the run cap and i don't think it will take much to push it over but the low frequency of a pendulum may not be ideal but it is worth a try.
I have really enjoyed watching the development of your motor and i hope you continue to develop it.Jonny
@All.I don't know how many of you are aware of an experimenter called twinbeard and a motor which he calls a "flowerpower device" which uses a starship coil and a small neo sphere as a rotor.This motor has spun the rotor at 3450000rpm-THREE AND A HALF MILLION RPMS and believe it or not,the rotor went supersonic and exploded.
He can only achieve this high rpm by delaying Lenz using principles based on Thane Heins.
Here is a quote from a post twinbeard made.
"in fact, i am sure it is out of phase... the thane heins effect essentially works out like this... you have a rotor going at high frequency, with a high impedance generator coil. parasitic capacitance make an electrostatic field of high voltage on the surface of the wire, but there is a minute phase delay in current (and hence, counter emf) in the actual wire of the coil, as the electostatic charge decays. this gives the rotor a chance to move out of the way before lenz can slow him down, and in certain cases, the phase shift will actually accelerate the rotor."
Twinbeard was getting acceleration of the rotor with a dead shorted pickup coil underload back in mid 2010 and i am sure some of his discoveries could help with the muller gen.
You can read some very interesting exchanges and information on his flowerpower device here.His posts start on page 27.Here is a link.Jonny

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-27.html#post106504

Here is Twinbeards chanal
YouTube - ‪piratetwinbeard's Channel‬‏

[Lidmotor]

Searching for answers---but finding more questions

@Ren
I have been using only air core coils on this project up until this week. On my small devices it seems the best way to avoid drag and get something spinning. My little "spinners" go pretty fast sometimes but there isn't much torque doing it this way. What I CAN do is generate voltage buy using a pickup coil with lots of fine wire and a load that is more voltage than amperage dependent. "Maggie" is an example of that. On this project the idea of letting to generator coil build up energy using capacitors instead of a direct load is a similar idea. It is kinda like the generator coil telling the magnet rotor, " OK. OK. I know. I know. If I take the watts you are going to slow down then your not happy and I'm not happy. Sooooo----why don't we make a deal. You keep the amperage and just give me the voltage and I'll figure out a way to make THAT work for me then you can go on spinning." The magnet rotor says, "Deal."
Over and over again in these projects I see this idea of using the voltage and avoiding the current. Maybe a combination of cored and uncored coils is the answer like you said. Use the cored coils to push the magnets around and the air core coils to grab the voltage as they fly by. Capacitors then convert the energy and pulse out the wattage. The setup that you are using (I think) is basically doing just that. It seems to me that the efficiency of this process is dependent on the physical make up of the device and the timing of all the events. It is allot of variables to get it to work right.

@Toranarod
Rod this forum is a great sounding board for ideas. You and I have discovered that many times the outcome of a project (the sucessful part) is different than the original quest. It is a beautiful thing. When I started this project I knew that the probability was remote that anyone was going to replicate Romero's results. I was hopeful though and I figured that this could be a good ride to go on. I might learn something useful along the way. That is the great thing about actually building something rather than just talking about it. Strange things happen during the build. Surprises.

@Gravityblock
The "knocking and thumping" to me is an indication that things aren't quite right. This thing should run smooth. Now that I have the ferrite cores in my coils I can really see the situation. By adjusting the distance between the rotor and the coils I can find a "sweet spot" where the noise goes away. HOWEVER----I am using a 5 magnet to 4 coil pairs arrangement. The Romero ratio might be totally different. I have been wondering if maybe he had all those rotor magents and bias magnets just right to make an (almost) pure magnet motor. Maybe when given a precise pulse at just the right time--- the rotor self push-pulled itself around. Maybe even those large steel bolts that held the thing together had a part in it. I don't know.

Lidmotor

[nueview]

Hello Lidmotor. and every one.

I am the same. I have an idea and go off and build it, or I read some work by other and believe I can replicate it and I may get lucky and finds something.

There have been other before us who have found over unity so can we.

I have seen a few things in my years of research that keeps me working on.
Like my current project with the cascading effect.

I was perusing the EV gray pulse motor when RomeroUK came along so now I have combined the work.

there are so many projects to look into.

lets all help each other because with out your support and this forum as a sounding board for our work. I would have given up long ago.

Thank and good luck.

Rod

I really like what you are attempting to do with the cascading effect of the charging i have thought about this and it makes allot of sense in many ways
for the muller to drive one slot it hits several generator coils lets say that the generator coils charge with a high ampere rate but low voltage and at the end of one motor drive cycle all the caps are series connected for voltage and dumped to the main cap the charge should excede the drive output
in the case of a battery the tune charger effect works much better as the voltage is connected first so as to raise total potential across the cells or cell and then the amps are drawn in this gives a better charge rate as long as the system does not miss a beat. this is common to the bedini device as well but done with spikes and to a lesser effect.
these are some things i have found that work and are just some suggestions.
though i can see this making any system more complicated.
i am working on a resonant drive motor very different but it may go to this design as you guys are making some of the advantages of this system more evident to me.
Martin

[wizofid]

I have been a lurker for a bit, have played with some of this, but its been years since I worked the bench.

Thank you all - for sharing the ideas and diagrams.

I'll pull some gear, and start as Rom said with a couple of coils and see where I go.

wizofid

[Slider2732]

@Bolt
It appears that you have a handle on what is happening

Nah, he drives what is happening with a MOSFET

[toranarod]

Thanks Ash for the compliment. This forum has been great to me ---but not everybody likes what I do. Sometimes with pure persistance I get lucky, the "thing" works, and I turn it into a useful product. Most of the time I'm just playing around with something that never does really works right.
I have enjoyed being part of the facinating projects that we do at this forum. There are amazing people from all over the world envolved here who I greatly respect. Not all of those carry high credentials. Some are just people who "tinker" very well and know what works and what doesn't.

@Slider
I hooked my Muller up to an "exciter" today and ran it off one wire (using an AV plug). I keep thinking about your tiny helicopter experiment. Man we sure have some fun don't we? I'm surprised that Slayer and Jonny D. are not envolved in this project. Maybe they are and are just not saying anything.

@Bolt
I have read every word you wrote over at OU at the Romero Myller thread----and I understood about three of them. Actually I read and reread some of your posts and some of it is sinking in. It appears that you have a handle on what is happening. Thanks for the help.

@Toranarod & Ren
I spent a few hours today going back over John Bedini's work in this area. Twenty or thirty years ago he was doing this stuff. The Watson machine is kinda what you are doing right now Ren. It was the mismatch between the number of coils to magnets that interested me in the Muller design. I could not find any info that JB ever did that arrangement. He may have already been down this road long ago. I just couldn't find it.

BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR

Years ago now I used to go to this web site and study what John showed and talked about. It was inspiring. I always liked the music too.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

Hello Lidmotor. and every one.

I am the same. I have an idea and go off and build it, or I read some work by other and believe I can replicate it and I may get lucky and finds something.

There have been other before us who have found over unity so can we.

I have seen a few things in my years of research that keeps me working on.
Like my current project with the cascading effect.

I was perusing the EV gray pulse motor when RomeroUK came along so now I have combined the work.

there are so many projects to look into.

lets all help each other because with out your support and this forum as a sounding board for our work. I would have given up long ago.

Thank and good luck.

Rod

[Joit]

Off-Topic
But the Newman Motor is a *****. Lol.

This looks like a Amperage pump, even when i dont know, if at the Muller Motor the Cemf and unaligned Coils with the Magnets dont play a bigger Role.


But Ty for that Gb, my Newman test-runs now with a empty Battery since over a Hour with an additional Diode and continue to speed up and slow down alternating.

[gravityblock]

Knocking and Thumping equals Inrush Current

knocking noisethumping noise changes in pitch because of the shorting process, but the RPM does not change. Please see my YouTube Video below


YouTube - ‪RomeroUK Replication‬‏
cheers

The thumping noise is due to an inrush of current in some cases, which is according to when the coils are shorted. Below is a snippet from a quote found on another forum when the current lags the voltage by 90 degrees in regards to when the coils are shorted. If the current is leading the voltage by 90 degrees, then this needs to be taken into consideration. This should answer a lot of questions about coil shorting.

For a pure inductive load, current lags voltage by 90 degrees. Transformer inrush is almost purely inductive. To close the breaker when current = zero, close it 90 electrical degrees after the voltage is zero, which is when the voltage is at maximum positive or negative.

This is counter-intuitive, but it works.
....
.......
I watched the tests on the waveform recorders. When we closed at voltage near zero, inrush was about 6,700 amps and we could . When the timing got adjusted and closed the first phase at peak voltage, the inrush was 600 amps, no thump, just a 60 Hz hum.

Close at voltage peak, open at current zero.

[ren]

@Toranarod & Ren
I spent a few hours today going back over John Bedini's work in this area. Twenty or thirty years ago he was doing this stuff. The Watson machine is kinda what you are doing right now Ren. It was the mismatch between the number of coils to magnets that interested me in the Muller design. I could not find any info that JB ever did that arrangement. He may have already been down this road long ago. I just couldn't find it.

BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR

Years ago now I used to go to this web site and study what John showed and talked about. It was inspiring. I always liked the music too.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

Oh and BTW Lid Im not sure if JB has tried the mismatch before, but some of his drawings seem to SUGGEST it, as well as Watsons monster, which you can see in the picture that the gen coils arent all aligned.

Regards

[ren]

Yeah Lid

Something Id like to suggest, based on what I have observed from my air core Muller/Watson/SG whatever it is.

You can get a small amount of "juice" off the coils when they are air core. I made mine air core because I wanted the SG to provide the torque needed to turn this thing. So with the SG we have attraction to the core helping us essentially for free. We also have this with the Muller.

What if we only used this method on the drive coils, then built all generator coils on the air core platform, perhaps with the ability to adjust inductance/drag etc with a removeable core. Ive seen some of the circuits you guys have been building draw incredibly low power, less than 100ma and speeds well into the 1krpm.

So your drive coils could be used effectively with very minimal drag to overcome on all the generator coils (unloaded virtually none) and recovery could be used to charge a large cap. Then all your air coils could be rectified and also paralleled to the cap. Im getting enough power to light a 12v 3 watt led to near full brightness, I am yet to measure current by Ive done some other tests that make me think Im getting at least 200ma out. Lighting the LED knocks about 400-500 rpm off the running speed, and so does charging up a large capacitance cap from empty (I used 80000uF). BUT when the cap is already being charged or has some charge in it I noticed significantly less drag when the generator coils were paralleled. In some cases losing only 100 rpm. And that is with a load being drawn off the cap.

I just see how little current is needed to drive your builds at incredible speeds, I cant help but wonder if a sacrifice in output power (remove cores) could be beneficial (less drag) enough to make ends meet so to speak.

@ 1600 rpm Im getting 15vac per series strand (2 coils in series) and all six outputs parallel give over 40vdc unloaded at the output.

my 0.02c

Keep up the good work chaps.

Ren

[Lidmotor]

Sometimes you get lucky

Lid you know out of all the R and D you have made practical applications out of it, i cant help but be humbled by that, wish we all had more time in the day to thank you for your unique talent mate.

Ash

Thanks Ash for the compliment. This forum has been great to me ---but not everybody likes what I do. Sometimes with pure persistance I get lucky, the "thing" works, and I turn it into a useful product. Most of the time I'm just playing around with something that never does really works right.
I have enjoyed being part of the facinating projects that we do at this forum. There are amazing people from all over the world envolved here who I greatly respect. Not all of those carry high credentials. Some are just people who "tinker" very well and know what works and what doesn't.

@Slider
I hooked my Muller up to an "exciter" today and ran it off one wire (using an AV plug). I keep thinking about your tiny helicopter experiment. Man we sure have some fun don't we? I'm surprised that Slayer and Jonny D. are not envolved in this project. Maybe they are and are just not saying anything.

@Bolt
I have read every word you wrote over at OU at the Romero Myller thread----and I understood about three of them. Actually I read and reread some of your posts and some of it is sinking in. It appears that you have a handle on what is happening. Thanks for the help.

@Toranarod & Ren
I spent a few hours today going back over John Bedini's work in this area. Twenty or thirty years ago he was doing this stuff. The Watson machine is kinda what you are doing right now Ren. It was the mismatch between the number of coils to magnets that interested me in the Muller design. I could not find any info that JB ever did that arrangement. He may have already been down this road long ago. I just couldn't find it.

BEDINI'S FREE ENERGY GENERATOR

Years ago now I used to go to this web site and study what John showed and talked about. It was inspiring. I always liked the music too.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[minoly]

You need non latching south (or north turn trigger neo around).

BTW so many people ask why two halls and two triggers. The reason is load balancing. Each hall fires at different times and the trigger coils are often not dead opposite each other. This causes a lower average current pulse time firing sequentially rather than two coils firing off one pulse. The effect is more rpm at lower average drive current. That said please do not put all your efforts into the coil drivers they are only a means to turn the rotor. The OU effect happens ONLY from the generator coils.

I have posted loads of info over at ou.com. I am Bolt there and SilverHealtheu on EVGRAY.

Hi Bolt,
I my son chose this name on the net as well some time ago. I read your postings and pay attention to them as well, even before Romero said we should.
so I'm puzzled a bit now. I've been going back and forth from my readings on whether or not Romero used the driving ckt for anything else other than just spinning the wheel. my added puzzlement comes from Romero's most recent post:
Romero's experiments and OU principles
"I said it can be run powered from a standard DC motor but to do initial testing and adjustments.
It will not run like it did powered from outside motor."

so, I believe we do not "need" to use that ckt to achieve the basic concept. at the same time, I think he may have been doing something w/ it as others have found some ways to make it work to their advantage.
I guess that's kind of a question/hypothisis

Patrick

PS I am sincere, I hope my lame sense of humor is ok here.

[ashtweth]

@ Slider
Your idea about getting a little Muller Dynamo to run on a small amount of "light" energy is what I have been working on for weeks. My little "toy" is getting better and better and here it is running on indirect solar energy inside my house.

YouTube - ‪Ambient solar energy Muller Dynamo.ASF‬‏

Cheers,

Lidmotor

Lid you know out of all the R and D you have made practical applications out of it, i cant help but be humbled by that, wish we all had more time in the day to thank you for your unique talent mate.

Ash

[redrichie]

Thanks Bolt,
I read everything you post and try to comprehend most of it. Thank you for your patient insight.

I thought they were non latching. It didnt make sense to me any other way. And yes I am very aware that the driver portion is not the overunity. If anything it seemed to be that the second shorter pulse fired a small and brief pulse to counter the BEMF from the main driver. kind of taper it off instead of a full out counter rotation fighting the system.