Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Mark]

just to mention it:
When toranarod's rotor has a diameter of 160 mm (magnet to magnet - as posted here http://www.energeticforum.com/148586-post890.html)
and is driven at ca. 4000 rpm, then one would have to drive a rotor with double that diameter at half the rpm to achieve the same 'magnet-bypass velocity'.
More examples:
In order to achieve toranarod's 'bypass-velocity' between a magnet and a coil with rotors of other size ...
...a rotor with magnet-to-magnet-diameter 200 mm (RomeroUK's) would have to be driven at ca.3200 rpm
...a rotor with diameter 400 mm would have to be driven at ca.1600 rpm
Hope I calculated this correctly.

I think its easier to look at it in rpm's. Rod's device at 4000 rpm with 8 magnets has 32,000 magnet passes per minute. So a 4 magnet rotor would have to turn 32,000/4= 8,000 rpm.

[minoly]

Hmm, sorry i think i don't get your point.
I don't see what Bedini's 3 paralleled windings in the Kromrey
have in common with Rod's series bifilar winding concerning the inductance.
But regardless, looking forward to what Rod is making out of this )

@Marxist: yeah that's helpful. I usually just look at what frequency the generator coil picks up.
The magnet bypass velocity determines the induction differential, but also the induction rate (#magnets passing per second) is important for the resulting generated voltages and currents. How does that go into the equation?

I think I remember JB noting that it had to do with lowering the impedance.
This is the effect of the extra winds - paralleled/series-ed is having on the "Muller/Romero" coils.
math:
1 long wind of 30awg on my spool is 170ohms - .717H
10 filer same spool same wire in parallel = 1.9ohms - .35mH

same total length of wire on each.

question I have - why is this different than just winding a larger awg wire on the spool, one that has the same ohms and same mH? do the extra winds make the difference? extra winds with low impedance...

Patrick

[Xenomorph]

The connection is this
Also, connecting the strands like this aka tesla bifilar, the inductance triples. I can show you a dual strand coil that triples in inductance connected like this

Hmm, sorry i think i don't get your point.
I don't see what Bedini's 3 paralleled windings in the Kromrey
have in common with Rod's series bifilar winding concerning the inductance.
But regardless, looking forward to what Rod is making out of this )

@Marxist: yeah that's helpful. I usually just look at what frequency the generator coil picks up.
The magnet bypass velocity determines the induction differential, but also the induction rate (#magnets passing per second) is important for the resulting generated voltages and currents. How does that go into the equation?

[marxist]

velocity

...My test device does not mechanically allow to go higher than 2000 RPM...

just to mention it:
When toranarod's rotor has a diameter of 160 mm (magnet to magnet - as posted here http://www.energeticforum.com/148586-post890.html)
and is driven at ca. 4000 rpm, then one would have to drive a rotor with double that diameter at half the rpm to achieve the same 'magnet-bypass velocity'.
More examples:
In order to achieve toranarod's 'bypass-velocity' between a magnet and a coil with rotors of other size ...
...a rotor with magnet-to-magnet-diameter 200 mm (RomeroUK's) would have to be driven at ca.3200 rpm
...a rotor with diameter 400 mm would have to be driven at ca.1600 rpm
Hope I calculated this correctly.

[Zooty]

Yes but what is the connection to the coil's used in the Muller gen?
You mean the fact that Romero used strands?
That does not alter the inductance in regards to the resistance.

The connection is this
Also, connecting the strands like this aka tesla bifilar, the inductance triples. I can show you a dual strand coil that triples in inductance connected like this

[Shadesz]

Subjects of study

I see the difference now. Turns out my internet is acting up on me and I only saw the first row of that data rod posted the first time I loaded the page. Great results! Exciting things going on here that is for sure!

As others have mentioned it may be beneficial to identify different categories and have everyone work on them together. To me it seems there are a few major things we need to figure out when if comes to this system. Perhaps we should start a thread on each subject so we can keep the data a little more organized and reviewable?

The areas of study I currently understand are...
1- Speed and its relation to increasing RPM when you add a load. Is high speed truly the factor or is it something else? We could title this thread "Muller Study: High RPM's and coil loading"

2- Then there is the core type issue. What cores seem to minimize Eddy Current? We could title this one "Muller Study: Core types and ratios"

3- Then there is the idea of adding a magnet on the back side of a core. Does it really help? What distance away should it be placed? We could title this "Muller Study: Magnets behind the core"

4- Then there is Rod's idea of hiding a tree in a forest. Does this help? How much? What parameters are crucial? We could title this "Muller Study: Rod's tree in a forest"

5- Then another idea rod had is wiring coils together and sequencing them to fire at the correct times. We could title this "Muller Study: Coil linking techniques"

Did I miss any? What say ye? Should we separate the subjects of study into relating threads? I have a good set of stuff to start the speed thread.

[Xenomorph]

Bedini added the extra two strands in parallel as the original device was said to use just one strand in the schematics.

Yes but what is the connection to the coil's used in the Muller gen?
You mean the fact that Romero used strands?
That does not alter the inductance in regards to the resistance.

[toranarod]

Wow.
That is what I was waiting to see, THANKS ROD!!!! Now you are actually showing us that by simply adding a shorted coil to a running system, you are able to add energy for free!!!, Just adding a shorted coil gives your rotor more energy, and power!!

I knew this! nobody would listen, I am mad at some people who have distracted us from these concepts, knowingly or unknowingly. Thank you for all of the people especially Thane who kept on telling us.

This proves that acceleration is a real thing and not something caused by lessening the drag!

I am so happy you did this test. Just a quick question, this coil you used has a 20x20mm core? and the magnet is 10x10, meaning that your core is four times larger than the magnets face?

2011 is going to be history. Yes now I see too why these magnets have become really expensive, I couldn't afford buying them a couple of weeks ago.



Elias

I am so happy you did this test. Just a quick question, this coil you used has a 20x20mm core? and the magnet is 10x10, meaning that your core is four times larger than the magnets face? YES. that is the correct ratio. I was looking at it from the line of travel.

[toranarod]

@rod, elias and everybody
Just wanted to say I think you are doing a wonderful job, been following this with great interest for years. I am not very good with electronics but was just wondering if you could post complete diagrams for the bad ass muller generator as you build it, so that it can get out there for our children to enjoy for years to come. lets change the world for the better. all the best to everyone. thanks ron

I am hoping every person who has been interested in this thread and is hoping to build there own BAD ASS motor generator can do so.
I will document every detail so it can be replicated and enjoyed by all.

[Zooty]

Could you explain what you mean exactly with "in this coil config" please?
What are you referring to? What are you comparing the Kromrey version to?

Bedini added the extra two strands in parallel as the original device was said to use just one strand in the schematics.

[toranarod]

@ROD:

Wow so now with loaded coil in place, you have higher RPM than without coil at all.
This is the best stuff I've seen in OU field in last 8 years.

Wow so now with loaded coil in place, you have higher RPM than without coil at all. YES.

[Xenomorph]

It would really be clearing things up to know if this is speed dependent.
I have not been able to achieve such effect in the range that i worked with, which was below 1500 RPM. My test device does not mechanically allow to go higher than 2000 RPM.

[Farmhand]

Oh yes I see it now. Post #1046.

Cheers

[Xenomorph]

Hi all, I must be missing something so I appologise first, then i ask what figure's are being compared to see the rpm increase with loaded coil as compared to no coil ? I can't see it or find it whatever.

Can someone point me to the figure's/results ?

I wana to get excited too.

He has a difference of around 40 RPM when he loads the coil with a short in comparison to a situation with the unloaded coil or no generator coil even present.
The unloaded generator coil reduces 10 RPM compared to no coil present due to the core attraction only.

[Shadesz]

i agree with farmhand. i'm not differentiating the control from the loaded coil. i have a related spreadsheet built to help us quantify the results. it will automatically graph and compare the increase. ill post it asap as i have some meetings to be to in 15 mins.