Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[marxist]

stick to direction

Hi,
when one makes a coil and winds the first layer of (litz-)wire onto the former or core one has defined the basic direction of the magnetic field, that will be created by the current.
The current in the wire will follow the winding and flow circular (clockwise or counter clockwise) AND FORWARD along the core, away from the starting point.

When you now wind the second layer, you will normally wind BACKWARDS toward the point where the first layer started.
I think, by doing so, you will partly destroy the strength of the magnetic field you created. This seems obvious to me, as the second layer of windings routes the current against the direction of the first.
So maybe someone has the patience to wind a coil, where the wire is brought straight back to the beginning after the first layer is wound, so that the second layer will start from the same end of the core as the first.

In this way the current would always travel in the same direction along the core and consequently the magnetic field/force would be reinforced by the second layer (and additional layers) instead of being weakened.
No?

edit: After thinking about this a bit more, I feel that I correctly described a problem but that the solution I proposed will not solve it.
I have to think about this better.
Sorry

[FRC]

Thankyou totoalas

Magnet Motor - Kicker.

another way to kick magnets around

cheers
totoalas

‪The magnet kicker‬‏ - YouTube

I mentioned on another thread that I had been looking for these types of
toys to modify to use as a timing device for cap pulsing. With your circuit
and explanation video, I can make my own. Thanks very much.

FRC

[Slider2732]

Very encouraging Rod
Yep, once you witness no changes in rotor speed while drawing from it or setting the drive voltage anywhere you like it's just a mind boggler...a very cool experience. Translating constant speed running into generated power is about where i'm up to, though I haven't built a full sized motor yet.
Think i'll have to use some of MonsieurM's maths to get the constant speed correct.
Once the hard drive in this PC goes i'll have 2 or 4 more magnets for that...i've already reused the case mounted cooling fan and we have no air conditioning

[toranarod]

Hi toranarod,
thanks for your answer.

So if you have such a gen coil in place and the rpms don't drop when the coil is loaded, would it then not be the most straightforward way to just add another identical gen coil and hope for double the output?

that is exactly what i am thinking.

but one step at a time. there can be no short cuts it must be understood and properly documented.

[MonsieurM]

the coil on the left in the photo is the gen coil and the one on the right is the drive coil. There are no other coils in the setup at this point.

I am only referring to the generator coils at this moment. the drive coil is working as described a few pages back that has not changed.

just got down from the work shop. The gen coil is now supplying at 6.7 volts out at 2.5 watts. 3268 RPM.

I need to wind a 7 or 9 strand litz coil that would be very interesting.

6.7=4 2.5= 7 3268=1

Check where column/row 7 meets row/column 4

[marxist]

Hi toranarod,
thanks for your answer.

.... The gen coil is now supplying at 6.7 volts out at 2.5 watts. 3268 RPM ...

So if you have such a gen coil in place and the rpms don't drop when the coil is loaded, would it then not be the most straightforward way to just add another identical gen coil and hope for double the output?

[toranarod]

I am on the same track

The more I experiment the more I get sure about the fact that higher speed + higher inductance + lower resistance is the key to getting more out of this system. This also behaves completely opposite to a conventional generator.

In a conventional generator when you load it most (ie short it) it drags the maximum and when you load it less with a high impedance load you'll get less drag. In this generator when you load it most that is short it, drags the least and starts to accelerate after a certain speed, if you load it with a high impedance load it drags the rotor much more.

We are on the right track, keep it up Rod!

Elias

something is finally working.

after all theses years of building motors. There is a working principle a structure to this. something to refine and build on.

you too. great work. keep the information flowing.

cheers

[toranarod]

Hi toranarod,
thanks for keeping it open source.
I have a question:

In the depicted setup, which is the drive coil and which is the generator (or pick-up) coil?

Did you mean to say: "My generator coil generating 4.5 volts ..."

Or are all the coils in the photo used as drive&generator coils?

Sorry for being dense.

the coil on the left in the photo is the gen coil and the one on the right is the drive coil. There are no other coils in the setup at this point.

I am only referring to the generator coils at this moment. the drive coil is working as described a few pages back that has not changed.

just got down from the work shop. The gen coil is now supplying at 6.7 volts out at 2.5 watts. 3268 RPM.

I need to wind a 7 or 9 strand litz coil that would be very interesting.

[marxist]

which is which?

Hi toranarod,
thanks for keeping it open source.
I have a question:

In the depicted setup, which is the drive coil and which is the generator (or pick-up) coil?

....My drive coil generating 4.5 volts at 300 mill amps 1.35 watts at 2800 RPM ....

Did you mean to say: "My generator coil generating 4.5 volts ..."

Or are all the coils in the photo used as drive&generator coils?

Sorry for being dense.

[elias]

At this point it has a lot to do with RPM. I need to wind some good coils?
modeling this is going to be difficult.
My drive coil generating 4.5 volts at 300 mill amps 1.35 watts at 2800 RPM. needs to be higher.
This explains Romero UK needs for a DC to DC converter.. We need high current loads to load the coils to max and convert low voltage to high voltage to loop back to the system.

I would like to add a comment at this point.

I have never been able to draw 300 mill amps from any pulse motor before.
at any voltage without bringing to a complete stop in seconds.
to see this motor run a 2800 RPM with no change in RPM is like? Well i think you know

I am on the same track

The more I experiment the more I get sure about the fact that higher speed + higher inductance + lower resistance is the key to getting more out of this system. This also behaves completely opposite to a conventional generator.

In a conventional generator when you load it most (ie short it) it drags the maximum and when you load it less with a high impedance load you'll get less drag. In this generator when you load it most that is short it, drags the least and starts to accelerate after a certain speed, if you load it with a high impedance load it drags the rotor much more.

We are on the right track, keep it up Rod!

Elias

[toranarod]

Rpm

At this point it has a lot to do with RPM. I need to wind some good coils?
modeling this is going to be difficult.
My drive coil generating 4.5 volts at 300 mill amps 1.35 watts at 2800 RPM. needs to be higher.
This explains Romero UK needs for a DC to DC converter.. We need high current loads to load the coils to max and convert low voltage to high voltage to loop back to the system.

I would like to add a comment at this point.

I have never been able to draw 300 mill amps from any pulse motor before.
at any voltage without bringing to a complete stop in seconds.
to see this motor run a 2800 RPM with no change in RPM is like? Well i think you know

[elias]

@Toranarod, thank very much for the info, just to give you an idea of why I am asking you for the numbers, it may help you find a pattern

The Philosopher Stoned

That is good! I always wondered how all of these numbers can be related to magnetism and electricity, and how can we take advantage of them?

[totoalas]

Magnet Motor - Kicker.

another way to kick magnets around

cheers
totoalas

‪The magnet kicker‬‏ - YouTube

The circuit is working thats great

[Slider2732]

Oh I agree about the usage
How many were of this type, which ones weren't, were all variations of the same, all is so very different to work through than to just know about such a coil. Which I guess is part of those ever elusive tuning procedures and final details of the whole machine that Romero has had to refrain from divulging.

[Joit]

Slider,
Lol, i stopped at Page 243 there to read.
But well, he did take your Picture from the Litzcoil, didnt mean,
that Romero used it like you did.
I asked, because it would make a huge different, when Romero had use all his Coils with this Setup. The Rotor would had run very much stronger, but when he did not, then he really figured it out in a straight way.
And besiede i think anyway, Romero had it run very close at a Border,
where it did run or did not run. So not much things, what someone should do wrong at rebuilding
But Penny is right, there is a lot space to play with it, there are a lot of possibilities,
i whish i have the time for it now, but anyhow i wanna prepare to move,
and i am only half hearted at the most things i can still do at the moment.