Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Joit]

Slider,
wanna try something more before you slip away to something else?
Like add a Resistor or Potentiometer between End L1,2,3 to Start L4,5,6.
Same between End 4,5,6 and Start L 7,8,9. Its may getting close, when you use one from these standard 0,2 Watt Resistors, that it burn,
but at this Way you can move the Phase from the single Strings a bit more..
I would like to build it and looking with a Scope on it, but not really Time right now.
Also may add Caps anywhere around.
I did do that on my SG before a while, had the 2 Coils in Serie and saw,
that the direct Connection at the Coils was not the best, and i could tune it a bit with my Pot.
It may dont do much different, because the Litz Wires are pretty equal, but maybe it change something, when you move both or all 3 Bunch of Wires a bit more out of Phase.

[quantumuppercut]

I've just thought of something else. I've heard it mentioned before but didn't really get into then.

When the magnet pass the core, the inductance/inertia changes. This is well demonstrated by JL Naudin with the Orbo.

Understanding the Orbo principle by JL Naudin

He also mention something along the line:
"...KEY 4 : When the magnet leaves the TDC, there is a magnetic energy gain in the stator coil because the current remains constant during the increase of the inductance..."

This remind me of the gravity wheel. When moment of inertia of the wheel change by weight moving in, angular velocity increase. But does work require to change inductance/inertia? I see that when a magnet pass by the core, the core attracts the magnet. This is a gain in kinetic energy, but when it leaves the core drag it downs the same. No net energy is gained, but the inductance has decrease and increase... for free. The vid below demonstrated that in order to gain energy, the inertia/inductance has to be in correct phase.

‪The 5 craziest gymnastics skills ever!‬‏ - YouTube

The first part of the vid shows the man pull in his mass on the way up to accelerate and stretch out for gain from gravity. This is a comparison to inertia/inductance change in correct phase.

I'll spend more time thinking about this. OU and gymnastic...who would have thought... lol

[Turion]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting several rotors on the same shaft, each offset from the previous rotor. You can then have coils on BOTH sides of the rotor as in the Romero design, but I think you will find that if you are precise in your arrangement, you can spin the thing by hand and there will be no cogging. I did it with ceramic magnets and also with neos. The ceramic magnet one I have video of at:
‪11Turion's Channel‬‏ - YouTube

If I was going to use as many neos as you did on my design, I'd use them on rotors to activate coils and get some bang for my buck.

[toranarod]

A new motor. What shall I call it?

This has been a project I have been formulating and designing a long time.
The final idea was the Muller motor magnets of Romero.
I wanted to put them on the other side of the coils in a tight circle.
What if we wanted to eliminate the Lenz drag completely?
On my early test the coil load has no effect of the motor at all.

Thanks to slider I now have a coil to drive it.

Along time ago I built a few permanent magnet motors and noticed that if you put a complete circle of magnets very tightly together around a rotor with magnets facing it directly. There was no driving force at all also any drag force either. As long as all the magnets are pole facing the same direction attraction or repulsion it does not matter.

IF all the generator coils are on the other side of the magnets and all switching at the same time. But the circle must be complete.

I have used the Romero coil 300 turns 7 strand Litz wire on a sewing machine bobbin the same size as the magnets it is stuck to.

[Joit]

[Slider2732]

Ah, interesting yx.
What you seem to be experiencing is similar to an effect noticed on my motors.
Only at a certain range or during a speed up would a neon illuminate. Before that speed and voltage there was nothing, after that speed and voltage was nothing. It lit for just a short period inbetween.
I fixed that problem with series HV capacitors, It might not work for you, but I added a 0.1uF and a 0.22uF HV capacitor between the positive rail and 1 leg of the neon (which would be your bulb). After doing that, the spikes remained for long enough to illuminate the bulb at anywhere from 6V and above. On the FanGen unit I saw that the neon only had 1 leg lit until adding the caps, then both were lit.
Might be worth trying that and you might find that different sizes of HV capacitors work better than some others.

[yx630514]

Hi Slider2732 toranarod,
Thanks again for help.
I changed to use 220V 13W energy-saving lamp as the load, Speed is no longer slow down, But also a slight increase of about 5rpm.
Problem:
1) Why very little increase in speed?
2) Why energy-saving lamp can only flashes. Not continuous light?

PS: Energy-saving lamp flashes speed to follow the rotor speed changes, Rotor speed slow when the, Energy-saving lamp flashes is also slow, When the rotor speed up to a certain speed when the, Energy saving lamp flashes fast, However, if the rotor speed continues to increase, Energy-saving lamp will stop flashes, Not the slightest light.

[Joit]

Slider, yes, the Diode does not much, just help a little Bit, i tried it at the Muller Coils as i had 2 Pairs in Serie, but it still gives something more back and made the Rotor run better.



Toranarod, i would cut the Core to the Size from the Coil, a to large Core gave me no advantages at other Coils. I think anyway, most of the Cores i build are to large. It is even may better, you build the Coil higher as larger, but it still depends a bit to the Size of your Magnets.
Even a adjustable Core is may a Idea, what you can move in and out.

[Joit]

"Steve,

I hope this helps.

Steve

Help what? Make me Laugh?

I suggest you to build such things, and not playing the Armchair scientist,
before i start ranting, like 'positive Feedback', go and learn something about Galvanic Batteries, and observe, if your so called Pluspole really change, especially Graphite, or your balancing a Circuit, where it seems you have no Idea, what it is all about, or your 'perfect Short'.

Fire from Coils, One unconnected Wire-Capacitor from 1/10 Strand, yeah sure.
I think, Peoples here are mature enough, that they can estimate by her own what they do build and where the limits are, Plus, HOW to fix Problems.

[toranarod]

Hello slider
Nice work on the coil charging the battery
And another good video.

I am working on the new coil. Been doing the calculations for the former
Turns out I need a large ferrite core for this one. The bobbin is going to be large
It may look like this.

I think I will try to reduce its size. I need the turns for the voltage. Just getting to big?
What to do?

[Slider2732]

Sorry for the awful pic below (again), but I wanted to try something out...that's now been found to work great. It's not really Muller related, yet does show the use of that spare strand.
While several experiments were to be conducted this evening anyway, I decided to see about charging a very old Ni-MH cell that was found on a circuit board, one of those battery backup sort of things.
It has sat in series with an LED on the 2 ends of the spare strand for the past hour or so...voltage now - 1.2V

Just thought folks might like to expand on the idea some time in the future, for a desulfator/charger concept.

[Slider2732]

Got skin sweat effect here lol, 106F today. If the Earth returned to resonance would it cool down ?

Quick video, just showing how rotor rotation isn't needed for back spikes.
Thanks to Joit for the diode idea, here it's an LED - plus another LED on the spare strand.
Might not be much power, but the speed of rotation when the motor is running isn't affected with both LED additions...so it could be usable energy being outputted as a freebie, if indeed someone with one of those posh speed sensors confirms.
Facts and figures for power used:
4.5V - 12mA
6V - 23mA

YouTube - ‪Wobbly power - Pulse Motor‬‏

[quantumuppercut]

@Slider:
Thanks for your experiments with series bifilar driver coils.
I actually went ahead and did some measurements on a 15 strand 0.1mm Litz wire coil (Litz wire is 15x 0.1mm Block Trafo CLI 200/15 FA-NR.: 40008)

Without the series connection it measured:

Resistance: 16 Ohm Inductance: 1.95mH

and in series bifilar connection using 7 and 8 strand pairs:

Resistance : 17.9 Ohm Inductance : 8.42 mH

But the best thing is that i replaced my old unifilar drive coil in my test pulse motor which had also around 8-10 mH inductance with the
series bifilar coil and i managed to run the same RPM (!) with about 30% less i/p current.
80mA before, 55 mA after.

In the same way that used as an electromagnet it picks up more needles, if used as a drive coil it gives a higher flux push to the rotor magnets.

Keep it up

I'm also reading up big time on the skin effect. Seems like Tesla bifilar coil patent aimed at neutralizing the skin effect thus increase coil efficiency. This is all very interesting. Thank you all.

[Xenomorph]

Something akin to the Nathan Stubblefield coil is how I think of that spare strand...it goes nowhere, sits with both ends just free to the wind...yet put an LED across it when running at 7.5V and the thing blows !
So, in that light, if such a coil was used as a driver coil, we might find that 2 or 3 extra wires produce very usable voltage as well as current. Is it a free capacitance related energy effect ? can we use that energy and keep the coil properties ?

I know that what i've ever seen of HV works to illuminate an LED or a neon to no more than their running levels, to the point that an LED and a neon can be parallel and neither will blow, both will illuminate yet are vastly different devices. See it all the time in Slayer circuit Tesla coil experiments.
I may have it wrong, but see HV as meeting a load and DC as crashing through anything in its way. And, as discussed with Steve recently, am wondering why these generators aren't primarily tuned frequency AC based, rather than current hammering DC.
To ripple ramp and resonate in a harmony seems the domain of AC, where a device needs to meet the loads introduced to it.

I'll do the diode thing Joit, I like that idea
Also going to run 3 coils on the same motor as yesterday, all 120 degrees or so apart, 2x 7 strand and 1 nine. Such that the motor runs on any of them before all are connected.
If the motor runs well it may be called 'Voyager' - in reference to Star Trek and the Seven of Nine character lol

@Slider:
Thanks for your experiments with series bifilar driver coils.
I actually went ahead and did some measurements on a 15 strand 0.1mm Litz wire coil (Litz wire is 15x 0.1mm Block Trafo CLI 200/15 FA-NR.: 40008)

Without the series connection it measured:

Resistance: 16 Ohm Inductance: 1.95mH

and in series bifilar connection using 7 and 8 strand pairs:

Resistance : 17.9 Ohm Inductance : 8.42 mH

But the best thing is that i replaced my old unifilar drive coil in my test pulse motor which had also around 8-10 mH inductance with the
series bifilar coil and i managed to run the same RPM (!) with about 30% less i/p current.
80mA before, 55 mA after.

In the same way that used as an electromagnet it picks up more needles, if used as a drive coil it gives a higher flux push to the rotor magnets.

Keep it up

[Slider2732]

Something akin to the Nathan Stubblefield coil is how I think of that spare strand...it goes nowhere, sits with both ends just free to the wind...yet put an LED across it when running at 7.5V and the thing blows !
So, in that light, if such a coil was used as a driver coil, we might find that 2 or 3 extra wires produce very usable voltage as well as current. Is it a free capacitance related energy effect ? can we use that energy and keep the coil properties ?

I know that what i've ever seen of HV works to illuminate an LED or a neon to no more than their running levels, to the point that an LED and a neon can be parallel and neither will blow, both will illuminate yet are vastly different devices. See it all the time in Slayer circuit Tesla coil experiments.
I may have it wrong, but see HV as meeting a load and DC as crashing through anything in its way. And, as discussed with Steve recently, am wondering why these generators aren't primarily tuned frequency AC based, rather than current hammering DC.
To ripple ramp and resonate in a harmony seems the domain of AC, where a device needs to meet the loads introduced to it.

I'll do the diode thing Joit, I like that idea
Also going to run 3 coils on the same motor as yesterday, all 120 degrees or so apart, 2x 7 strand and 1 nine. Such that the motor runs on any of them before all are connected.
If the motor runs well it may be called 'Voyager' - in reference to Star Trek and the Seven of Nine character lol