Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Steve220]

Positive feedback

"Steve,
And well, Burning Coil? Seriously. What else can happen with it? Explosion with Fireworks, or.. Rom will burn again?
Heating a Coil is allwas a Matter, how much Energy does run through, and/or a cause of unbalanced Systems.
The Advantage from pulsed Systems is, that you can control the Pulse, and drive the Coils to the Limits, and not endless over it, like its done in most other Systems from EE's, what dont care about efficience or losses, because they put only a Shild or a Fan to the Coils, when they meet the 'Biiig Problem' of Heat."

Hi Joit,

The coil uses positive feedback, it is regenerative, if the coil has no outlet for it's energy, it could over heat. It is an internal short circuit as the coils are shorted internal to themselves. Like any short circuit, high current and voltages could cause over heating due to wire resistances.

In the case of sliders coil, during the ringdown of the coil under positive feedback conditions, the increasing internal frequencies of the current created during decay causing a increased resistance in the wire that is turned in to heat.

This is why a external magnetic load to the core or a external electrical load to the coils should to be used so as to reduce the internal heating of the coil.

The excess energy being generated in the coil has to go somewhere.

If you should create the perfect balance of capacitance and inductance in the coil, you could also create the perfect short circuit and damage the coil as the internal stresses could be severe.

I will let Marxist explain more how the capacitance in one wire can help control the operation of the coil. The coil uses positive feedback, it is regenerative, it is a unstable LC circuit, so a little capacitance goes a long way.

I hope this helps.

Steve

[Joit]

Slider,
Thank you for your nice Video, but its a kind different by me.
I got thicker Wire and way lesser Windings at the Coils.
The Energy what i need to run it is to much, the resistance in the Coils to less.
I would make a Video, to show you the Motor, but its takes a Hour, dont had the time yet, instead i played again at this Thing.

What did comes out.., well. Compared to your Coil, you may wanna try this.
I assume your Plus is connected the Start of the Coil, your Transistor is (NPN-Mosfet), i assume at the finnish,
take a Diode, connect it at the finnish of the Coil, and go to different Strands with the Diodes, that some of the Energy get redirected into the Strands torwards to Plus again.



Marxist,
One Wire act as Capacitor. O rly. ? With open Ends? How much Farads do you think will this Wire have. Do you even know, how a Capacitor Works?

Steve,
And well, Burning Coil? Seriously. What else can happen with it? Explosion with Fireworks, or.. Rom will burn again?
Heating a Coil is allwas a Matter, how much Energy does run through, and/or a cause of unbalanced Systems.
The Advantage from pulsed Systems is, that you can control the Pulse, and drive the Coils to the Limits, and not endless over it, like its done in most other Systems from EE's, what dont care about efficience or losses, because they put only a Shild or a Fan to the Coils, when they meet the 'Biiig Problem' of Heat.


But you got a Point with a Capacitor even when a wrong Value can mess anything up, but i suggest, to connect it not only at the End to fnnish, but try it it at the different Strands, and even with a Diode.

[Steve220]

thank you
you have a point

cheers

May be a variable capacitor with one side attached to this wire and the other attached to the coil wire or ground could give your coil some tuning ability.

Steve

[toranarod]

Hi toranarod,
please don't forget, that in slider's new coil there is an additional strand which is not connected. That non-connected strand may function as a capacitor plate related to the other (connected) stands and it may be important that this non-connected strand is in place. So to replicate the effect you would need more than 9 strands.

Maybe you can try your 7 stranded wire, of which you use 6 strands (instead of 9) for the multi-filar connection and leave one strand non-connected.

Good luck and thanks for Slider2732 for pioneering this.

thank you
you have a point

cheers

[marxist]

some free ends

Hi toranarod,
please don't forget, that in slider's new coil there is an additional strand which is not connected. That non-connected strand may function as a capacitor plate related to the other (connected) stands and it may be important that this non-connected strand is in place. So to replicate the effect you would need more than 9 strands.

....bunches of 3, with 1 wire left over....

Maybe you can try your 7 stranded wire, of which you use 6 strands (instead of 9) for the multi-filar connection and leave one strand non-connected.

Good luck and thanks for Slider2732 for pioneering this.

[toranarod]

9 litz wire

same as before with 9 strand

[Slider2732]

Looking forward to that !

Also looking forward to putting 3 of these around a rotor...more looking like a Bedini design I would think, but 3x this stuff could open worm holes LOL
Just found another coil on a monitor, i'm not sure how many strands etc yet, but here it is:




I do wonder whether removing the wire and winding rougher for more capacitance on sewing bobbins might be a good project. Then they could go on a Muller gen. It would be an easier thing to do than taking the well glued monitor neck multi-strand off.

[toranarod]

Sorry for the multi-posting...but this IS worth it !!!
Toranarod, I do believe you have your new more powerful coils

Below is the first spin up, on video, of the 9 stranded coil.
I did it that way in case anything odd or unexpected happened - and it did.
Ever seen white flashes of plasma from inside a neon bulb ?
Ever seen such things on just 4.5V, using a pulse motor ?
When I move the power up to 6V the neon looks to be in jeopardy of breaking.

YouTube - ‪White plasma flashes inside a neon at 4.5V - Pulse motor‬‏


The pulses appear to be too short to fully brighten the bulb with each collapse, with the output HV strong enough like a hammer strike to produce the effects seen.

Further tests conducted:
I've just put my wireless energy field tester to the coil ((blue LED with FWBR and small coil) and it lights near the rotor.
Putting a white LED on the 2 strands which remain unconnected (same wire start and finish) lights an LED with each collapse. The brightness increases with voltage applied, the LED stops flashing when power is removed from the circuit. With the LED fitted, the neon doesn't glow, but rotor speed remains excellent with no change in speed noticed whether the LED is on the strand or not.
The energy to light the LED is straight from the coil and would otherwise be a short of the strand.
Moving from 6V to 7.5V, the LED flashed very brightly and broke
Adding a HV cap of around 0.33uF is the next step....and the replacing of underwear

Have just watched the video.
fantastic! This is encouraging news. I am winding the coil ASAP
Great job.

[Slider2732]

@Gyula - Yep, 3 sets of 3 on each side. The fact that the LED blew up when setting the motor to 7.5V, shows the output from that spare single strand to be worthy of thinking about.
This coil was already noted for 'super loony' effects and it's continued onward....brilliant things saying they are free and prewound with the multistrand on monitor mainboards
Unfortunately, all I have for testing is a Sperry SP-6A analog needle meter. I read 10mA as current usage at 4.5V. It doesn't see the HV, even with the neon glowing away...I pointed at the neon and told it to quit kidding around.

@Steve - thanks for the email, your musings and explanations really do help, thanks

[gyula]

Here's the coil restranded...bunches of 3, with 1 wire left over.
I'll connect them like this:
Start - 1, 2, 3 to Finish 4, 5, 6
Start - 4, 5, 6 to Finish 7, 8, 9
Start - 7, 8, 9 Input
Finish - 1, 2, 3 Input

Hi Slider,

If I got it correctly you made trifilar in series aiding connection (and each filar in the trifilar consists of 3 wires in parallel), right?
If yes, this means you tripled the wire length hence you got about 9 times the inductance of a filar. Could you check this with an L meter if you have?

Thanks, Gyula

[Slider2732]

Sorry for the multi-posting...but this IS worth it !!!
Toranarod, I do believe you have your new more powerful coils

Below is the first spin up, on video, of the 9 stranded coil.
I did it that way in case anything odd or unexpected happened - and it did.
Ever seen white flashes of plasma from inside a neon bulb ?
Ever seen such things on just 4.5V, using a pulse motor ?
When I move the power up to 6V the neon looks to be in jeopardy of breaking.

YouTube - ‪White plasma flashes inside a neon at 4.5V - Pulse motor‬‏


The pulses appear to be too short to fully brighten the bulb with each collapse, with the output HV strong enough like a hammer strike to produce the effects seen.

Further tests conducted:
I've just put my wireless energy field tester to the coil ((blue LED with FWBR and small coil) and it lights near the rotor.
Putting a white LED on the 2 strands which remain unconnected (same wire start and finish) lights an LED with each collapse. The brightness increases with voltage applied, the LED stops flashing when power is removed from the circuit. With the LED fitted, the neon doesn't glow, but rotor speed remains excellent with no change in speed noticed whether the LED is on the strand or not.
The energy to light the LED is straight from the coil and would otherwise be a short of the strand.
Moving from 6V to 7.5V, the LED flashed very brightly and broke
Adding a HV cap of around 0.33uF is the next step....and the replacing of underwear

[Slider2732]

Here's the coil restranded...bunches of 3, with 1 wire left over.
I'll connect them like this:
Start - 1, 2, 3 to Finish 4, 5, 6
Start - 4, 5, 6 to Finish 7, 8, 9
Start - 7, 8, 9 Input
Finish - 1, 2, 3 Input

[Slider2732]

Triple dividing may introduce different effects again...I do have the 10 wire coil taken from an old PC monitor to try your idea. Though, it's too big really for my small pulse motors.

I'll give it a shot and see what happens. The spare wire will be left out of trials and then introduced as an extra winding to one of the bundles, to see if an upset balance (of 4 and 3) in the 7 wire version is one reason for the strange behaviours seen

[toranarod]

9 litz wire coi

hello slider.

What do you think about a 9 wire litz coil divided up into 3 lots of three.
lets say 9 strands of .5m wire at 250 turns on an iron core?

anybody else have any thoughts on this?

[Slider2732]

@Joit - Here's a video of mine which although doesn't show the coil heating, was a circuit which heated the coil. Until, I got the position correct and then it ran cold...the whole thing now runs cold, the transistor included and even with a small propeller on the front:
YouTube - ‪Nano Pulse Motor - smallest yet‬‏
As you can see, at that size of coil, the wire thickness can make such a thing very hot very fast. But it doesn't when all lined up. So I hope it shows that it's most likely the coil positioning that is heating your coil. Or you could say that when it runs cold it is lined up correctly