Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[qvision]

List of all Turnigy produts on UK ebay :

Turnigy brushless | eBay

[qvision]

Thanks Gyula

(it's me DeepCut from OU)

[gyula]

And here are the photos of motors toranarod surely thought of:

Muller Dynamo

Gyula

[qvision]

mondrasek well found, thanks

[mondrasek]

Yes i went back and looked to. But I do remember over at OU there was a post from him with a Photo of an out runner and a statement saying they are almost ou out the box. he had a Photo Of the wiring Job. It must of been taken down.
It stuck in my mind because I fly model Planes You see and have a few of theses motors.

Muller Dynamo

and

Muller Dynamo

[toranarod]

Well, i thought i should give it a try.....

Its a lot of work to get things done properly.
8 neo's in the rotor.
Space for 9 coils.

My rotor is a bit larger then most of you.
30 cm diameter.
Spacing of the magnets where determined by the force of the magnets on each other.
Tonight, the first coils for atracting the rotormagnets will be made.
I want to make 2 bifilar coils, because of the better electromagnet properties of such coils.

The alternative is a 6 watt 230V electromotor from a turntable. Doing a 1600 turns per minute. (Yes kids. There was a time before the ipod where people where playing plastic music discs on a device called a turntable... )

Feel free to write any comments for improvements on this build.

good looking build The Muller motor is a big job to replicate we appreciate the effort it takes to make one. pleases post-more PICs

[toranarod]

I just searched all of romerouk's posts on OU.com and found no mention of outrunners.

Yes i went back and looked to. But I do remember over at OU there was a post from him with a Photo of an out runner and a statement saying they are almost ou out the box. he had a Photo Of the wiring Job. It must of been taken down.
It stuck in my mind because I fly model Planes You see and have a few of theses motors.

[toranarod]

@toranarod

I have to explain something here that maybe will help you to figure some of this out. The biggest problem you will have with your mounted motor is that is will never be able to help the rotor turn when it is loaded. It will be as is the small motor was not even there because that motor will never have enough torque available.

Because of leverage, since the gen coils are on the outer edge of the rotor, the drag condition (gen coils) and the motive condition (drive coils) are working on the same leverage point. But when drag occurs on the outer edge of the rotor at let's say a level of 1, the force of drag being applied to the center motor will be 10. It will never be able to turn the rotor and act as is it was not event there. So you are trying to use the force of leverage but really in reverse.

If you are going to use the center shaft, you are better off designing your outer coils to all work as drive coils that would be located at the outer edge where leverage is maximum and on the central shaft put a motor generator instead of a drive motor. Then you can start playing with the outer coils to produce maximum drive torque and rpm because both of these will be mutual criteria to produce enough output off a central generator.

I sent you a PM a little while back and discussed about more testing of drive coils as well as cascading coils for the gen coils. That type of system, let's say one or two drive coil pairs and 7 or 8 cascading coil pairs (if you are using 9 coils per stator) may be a very efficient motor drive.

All the best.

wattsup

I understand what you are saying about ratios and so on . But it something i have wanted to try for a while. and if my gen coils are Lenzless then there will be no drag. Well that's the experiment. I need the RPM when I have finished mounting the motor I post a video of how fast it will go.

thanks for you help cheers

[mondrasek]

I have to explain something here that maybe will help you to figure some of this out. The biggest problem you will have with your mounted motor is that is will never be able to help the rotor turn when it is loaded. It will be as is the small motor was not even there because that motor will never have enough torque available.

Because of leverage, since the gen coils are on the outer edge of the rotor, the drag condition (gen coils) and the motive condition (drive coils) are working on the same leverage point. But when drag occurs on the outer edge of the rotor at let's say a level of 1, the force of drag being applied to the center motor will be 10. It will never be able to turn the rotor and act as is it was not event there. So you are trying to use the force of leverage but really in reverse.

@wattsup, I don't think you have this quite right. For example, my 200mm rotor spins just fine and is powered by a tiny VCR head motor that has a rotor diameter of only 50mm.

M.

[stevie1001]

And here is another one.......

Well, i thought i should give it a try.....

Its a lot of work to get things done properly.
8 neo's in the rotor.
Space for 9 coils.

My rotor is a bit larger then most of you.
30 cm diameter.
Spacing of the magnets where determined by the force of the magnets on each other.
Tonight, the first coils for atracting the rotormagnets will be made.
I want to make 2 bifilar coils, because of the better electromagnet properties of such coils.

The alternative is a 6 watt 230V electromotor from a turntable. Doing a 1600 turns per minute. (Yes kids. There was a time before the ipod where people where playing plastic music discs on a device called a turntable... )

Feel free to write any comments for improvements on this build.

[qvision]

I just searched all of romerouk's posts on OU.com and found no mention of outrunners.

[wattsup]

@toranarod

I have to explain something here that maybe will help you to figure some of this out. The biggest problem you will have with your mounted motor is that is will never be able to help the rotor turn when it is loaded. It will be as is the small motor was not even there because that motor will never have enough torque available.

Because of leverage, since the gen coils are on the outer edge of the rotor, the drag condition (gen coils) and the motive condition (drive coils) are working on the same leverage point. But when drag occurs on the outer edge of the rotor at let's say a level of 1, the force of drag being applied to the center motor will be 10. It will never be able to turn the rotor and act as is it was not event there. So you are trying to use the force of leverage but really in reverse.

If you are going to use the center shaft, you are better off designing your outer coils to all work as drive coils that would be located at the outer edge where leverage is maximum and on the central shaft put a motor generator instead of a drive motor. Then you can start playing with the outer coils to produce maximum drive torque and rpm because both of these will be mutual criteria to produce enough output off a central generator.

I sent you a PM a little while back and discussed about more testing of drive coils as well as cascading coils for the gen coils. That type of system, let's say one or two drive coil pairs and 7 or 8 cascading coil pairs (if you are using 9 coils per stator) may be a very efficient motor drive.

All the best.

wattsup

[toranarod]

hi Lidmotor,

I'm also curious did he use a switch. I find a vid that may shed some light into this but I don't know how it works either. lol

TEST NO. 1 STRAIGHT DC - SELF PULSING DC MOTOR ("Pulseless and Brushless").mov - YouTube

Have you ever used an out runner Motor. They are a pulse motor but have no hall sensor or reed switch. they sink right up to the pulse frequency. I am currently installing one in the top of my Muller motor as a drive motor. they get up to 7000 RPM. they use a processor based speed controller. Do any of you remember RomeroUK saying theses OUT RUNNERs are almost OU straight out the box? He said He re wired ONE Who Remembers that?

HobbyKing Online R/C Hobby Store : HXT 80-85-A 250Kv Brushless Outrunner (eq: 70-40))

[quantumuppercut]

@All
After much thought and reading input from a bunch of folks on other forums, I don't think that this "tiny motor/generator" is anything special. I still want to build one but I don't think that it is mysterious or of any value to the Muller Dynamo study. I think that he used a transistor to switch the coils.

Here is a setup that I put together with what I had that shows similar results. By the way the inventor has pulled his two videos showing the motor off YouTube.

Tiny motor-generator----replication maybe.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor

hi Lidmotor,

I'm also curious did he use a switch. I find a vid that may shed some light into this but I don't know how it works either. lol

TEST NO. 1 STRAIGHT DC - SELF PULSING DC MOTOR ("Pulseless and Brushless").mov - YouTube

[Lidmotor]

The "Tiny motor/generator" really doesn't belong here--but this may be how it works

In Responce to post 1366 { http://www.energeticforum.com/153399-post1366.html }

This Mini Dynamo is making lots of Builders quite curious [some very skilled builders].

Another Take on the Mans [builder] Printed text Here

Romerouk's Muller Replication

Chet
PS
I am in complete agreement that understanding this Wee Beasty can help the effort "Here"!!

@All
After much thought and reading input from a bunch of folks on other forums, I don't think that this "tiny motor/generator" is anything special. I still want to build one but I don't think that it is mysterious or of any value to the Muller Dynamo study. I think that he used a transistor to switch the coils.

Here is a setup that I put together with what I had that shows similar results. By the way the inventor has pulled his two videos showing the motor off YouTube.

Tiny motor-generator----replication maybe.ASF - YouTube

Lidmotor