Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[qvision]

Yes Bedini recommended copper-coated welding rods.

[toranarod]

For those of you interested in working with laminated cores. I use regular welding rod that I treat. I have a 4" piece of pvc capped on one end with a screw on cap on the other end. I keep it filled with polyurethane.

Tale a piece of steel longer than the 4" opening of the pipe so you can lay it across the top. Stick some neos onto it with paper in between so you can slide them off easier. Lift it up and attach the metal welding rods to the bottom of the steel by magnetic attraction. Be sure to leave some spaces between rods, because you've turned them into magnets that will want to stick to each other, and go SLOW so they don't fall off. Lower them into the polyurethane. You may need to add more liquid to make sure it comes right up to the top and coats the whole rod. If you don't care about reusing your neos for other projects you can dunk the whole thing in the polyurethane, but be warned, it builds up a coating on the steel that will keep the rods from sticking and will have to be removed with a grinder or sanding disk. Remove the rods and let them drip onto something you don't care about. I have a little stand that holds my piece of steel and lets my rods drip onto some newspaper that I can then throw away. When they are dry I will paint the end that was stuck to the steel with a brush and some more polyurethane, and then let them dry again. I'm sure varnish or other coatings would work, but I happen to have this on hand, so it's what I have been using.

sounds good Bedini recommended welding rods I remember.

can you post a photo?

[toranarod]

2- The distance between two consecutive magnets must be no more than one magnet a part. This is also very important.



Don't you think the hall sensor could still detect a change, and if placed sufficiently apart from the rotor, it could still detect a change?

Why would that be important to have the magnets close to each other?

8- Using proper core material: ferrite, or laminated Iron, or mu metal or magnetite. The core material diameter being a bit less than the diameter of the magnets.

I think Romero had 6mm diameter cores and 20mm diameter magnets. isn't that more than a bit less than the diameter of the magnets?



Thank you for the correction. I had the incorrect conversion of 1000ft that gives 304.8m ... And as you can guess with my lack of knowledge of UK units, I'm not in the UK
I didn't found in wires.co.uk where it gave the conversion between weight and length.

Anyway, 500g is enough still.

Meryl

his cores where also flat with the coils. So his coil diameters where the same size as the magnets. remember the the Muller core extend past the coils and are the same size as he magnets. I think Romero saw this as the same thing?

there is a very important relation ship between magnet size and core or coils size. this then decides how fast and how far the magnet are from the core and how fast the magnets must pass the cores.

Romero coil



Muller coil


My coil


all work because of the magnets size the coil or core size

[Turion]

For those of you interested in working with laminated cores. I use regular welding rod that I treat. I have a 4" piece of pvc capped on one end with a screw on cap on the other end. I keep it filled with polyurethane.

Tale a piece of steel longer than the 4" opening of the pipe so you can lay it across the top. Stick some neos onto it with paper in between so you can slide them off easier. Lift it up and attach the metal welding rods to the bottom of the steel by magnetic attraction. Be sure to leave some spaces between rods, because you've turned them into magnets that will want to stick to each other, and go SLOW so they don't fall off. Lower them into the polyurethane. You may need to add more liquid to make sure it comes right up to the top and coats the whole rod. If you don't care about reusing your neos for other projects you can dunk the whole thing in the polyurethane, but be warned, it builds up a coating on the steel that will keep the rods from sticking and will have to be removed with a grinder or sanding disk. Remove the rods and let them drip onto something you don't care about. I have a little stand that holds my piece of steel and lets my rods drip onto some newspaper that I can then throw away. When they are dry I will paint the end that was stuck to the steel with a brush and some more polyurethane, and then let them dry again. I'm sure varnish or other coatings would work, but I happen to have this on hand, so it's what I have been using.

[marxist]

...I suppose that the minimum drag is at flat position, but I'll test it in different angles.

Hi Elias,
I appreciate that you will try to establish more facts about the effect of the orientation of the core-laminations.

I guess you can turn your cores to any desired offset?

So I would like to mention something:
I think that a '45 degree orientation' will show a different effect from a '135 degree orientation'. Both are slanted but kind of opposite to each other. And I think this is important, because surely the direction of the rotor spin has to be considered.
I would be curious whether you can measure a clear difference between the two; regarding the effect on speed.

[scratchrobot]

wires.co.uk : Stranded Enamelled Copper Wire
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu = 0.875mm
Ref: ST01250007-500

Maybe Romero made a deal with wires.co.uk ?
They sold a lot of wires since the self running video!

[vidbid]

Litz Wire per RomeroUK

"The results at that time(no load): normal wire output was 9.2 volts
stranded wire output was 12.3
since then I have always used stranded for most of my coils"

wires.co.uk : Stranded Enamelled Copper Wire
7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu = 0.875mm
Ref: ST01250007-500

[RAMSET]

Perhaps another thread Now?

In Responce to post 1366 { http://www.energeticforum.com/153399-post1366.html }

This Mini Dynamo is making lots of Builders quite curious [some very skilled builders].

Another Take on the Mans [builder] Printed text Here

Romerouk's Muller Replication

Chet
PS
I am in complete agreement that understanding this Wee Beasty can help the effort "Here"!!

[qvision]

@ Elias

Thanks for clarifying the need for closer magnet spacing.

[scratchrobot]

Hi

I saw a UFO tonight. I was in total amazement, it is different from seeing a video of a UFO.

Anyway. What I think that we should take into consideration for replicating Romero's device is:

1- The magnets must be the same direction. N-N or S-S no alternations. This is one important aspect.

2- The distance between two consecutive magnets must be no more than one magnet a part. This is also very important.

3- The coils must be more flat. The length being about one half its diameter. This makes the coil get more inductance for the lesser resistance.

4- We must draw as much as current as possible from the coils. Using a high current DC-DC converter as he has used.

5- The resistance of our coils be as low as possible.

6- There is a trade off between the inductance of the coil and the resistance. Sticking to 300 turns of wire as he has proposed.

7- Using the strongest magnets we can obtain. Preferably more thick.

8- Using proper core material: ferrite, or laminated Iron, or mu metal or magnetite. The core material diameter being a bit less than the diameter of the magnets.

Please correct me if I missed something.

Elias

Yes you missed something, Romero had 2 wires going down the table. I asked him several times about it but no answer. You can read all about it on his forum at UnderService.Org - Index

Regards

[toranarod]

Hello

Can you post the exact spec, at which you could achieve more RPM, even more than when no coil is present? I think that is very important to this work, so that we could replicate what you could achieve.

Elias

MU Metal Core or Iron core ?

The MU metal is very defined set of specs.
The data you are requesting?
All Specification.? I have already posted some of this information.
What are the specs you are looking for specifically.

[elias]

Hello Elias

I agree with most of whats on the list just not sold on Ferrite.
I Just cannot get the same results with any other core materials as I do with MU metal. Once you tried MU there's no going back.

I have ordered Iron Oxide - Fe3O4 I need to make the cores to the exact Dimensions I cannot do that with MU metal.

Hello

Can you post the exact spec, at which you could achieve more RPM, even more than when no coil is present? I think that is very important to this work, so that we could replicate what you could achieve.

Elias

[elias]

2- The distance between two consecutive magnets must be no more than one magnet a part. This is also very important.


Don't you think the hall sensor could still detect a change, and if placed sufficiently apart from the rotor, it could still detect a change?

Why would that be important to have the magnets close to each other?

8- Using proper core material: ferrite, or laminated Iron, or mu metal or magnetite. The core material diameter being a bit less than the diameter of the magnets.

I think Romero had 6mm diameter cores and 20mm diameter magnets. isn't that more than a bit less than the diameter of the magnets?

Meryl

Hi Meryl,
Welcome here.
Magnets must not be so far from each other, because, when the acceleration effect kicks in, there are two phases:
1- When the magnet approaches the coil.
2- When the magnet leaves the coil.
In Phase 1, the magnet spacing does not matter.
In phase 2, Lenz will start attracting the magnet that is leaving the coil, the delay will cause it to attract a bit late, so that the next magnet comes by and gets attracted, so that it causes acceleration. See my point?

I may not be right about the diameter of the magnet to the core, and yes Romero's magnet diameter was about three times as large as the core diameter.

I don't know the specs of Romero's DC-DC converter, But I think that the lower the input voltage, the better it will be.

Elias

[elias]

Hi Elias,
thank you for the information, that the orientation of the laminations does have an effect.
When you found out about that, did you also try orientations between "flat" and "upright"? That is: did you also test other orientations like 30 degrees and 45 degrees?

Thanks

You're welcome.
I suppose that the minimum drag is at flat position, but I'll test it in different angles.

[meryl.anny]

2- The distance between two consecutive magnets must be no more than one magnet a part. This is also very important.

I disagree with that point. If the magnets were no more than the diameter of one magnet apart then the triggering mechanism (hall effect sensor) wouldn't see any change in the magnetic field and the drive circuit wouldn't fire.

Don't you think the hall sensor could still detect a change, and if placed sufficiently apart from the rotor, it could still detect a change?

Why would that be important to have the magnets close to each other?

8- Using proper core material: ferrite, or laminated Iron, or mu metal or magnetite. The core material diameter being a bit less than the diameter of the magnets.

I think Romero had 6mm diameter cores and 20mm diameter magnets. isn't that more than a bit less than the diameter of the magnets?

@meryl

If 1lb of wire gives you 1000 feet then 500g (which is 1lb) won't give you a bit less than 600 metres (which is over 1900 feet).

The wires.co.uk site tells you how many metres per kilo of each wire type on their site, so you shouldn't have to look elsewhere to find out.

If you are in the UK this might be generally helpful, it's my list of UK suppliers :

My recommended UK suppliers.

Thank you for the correction. I had the incorrect conversion of 1000ft that gives 304.8m ... And as you can guess with my lack of knowledge of UK units, I'm not in the UK
I didn't found in wires.co.uk where it gave the conversion between weight and length.

Anyway, 500g is enough still.

Meryl