Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[lespaul109]

I forgot, can anyone tell me what the resistance of a standard 7 strand romero coil is?

[lespaul109]

romero/thane heins hybrid

So I had success last year with my first Heins generator accelerating under any load. A few days ago I had the idea of winding the 7 strand wire in a normal way, but use 3 of the strands as a Heins generator, and the other 4 in a romero pulse circuit. The purpose of winding them on the same bobbin is so that they would share a core thus preventing the addition of drag from other cores. Another differences to romero's design is that the rotor has 12 magnets and alternating poles, which is what the Heins gen needs to accelerate. Instead of having a trigger magnet adjacent to each magnet, only every other magnet will be used for the pulse. Today I finished the rotor and stand; I made it 300mm. I found a good price on magnets if anyone cares to know it, $2 ea. for 3/4X3/8 N42....free ship. Did I read awhile back that someone added a 500ohm pot in place of the 100ohm resistor in romero's circuit to vary the speed/input power?

[Farmhand]

Hi all, I just thought I would mention that, I think with this type of setup, the final product/device needs to be able to run continuously. So increased rotational speed and stresses will be a design factor.

Benifits need to be seen in robust arrangements that don't get too hot. Or wear out from from increased speed. Meaning this might work well with small designs that are run for a few minutes, but what of medium sized units with good output power.

I have a feeling these shorted coils might get hot. How long can a coil be shorted like that next to a spinning rotor before it burns up. I don't know that it will get hot, I'm just guessing. Has anyone measured temperatures as a result of shorting and not.

Surely shorting will heat up the coils being shorted if they are shorted continuously. Heat is loss, unless you want a heater. If I was goin to short I think I would do it with a switch like Rod does. Taking the backside or frontside ( the right hand side) off the wave seems like a good idea rather than have it permanently shorted.

And Elias' idea of the using the big caps in the lower voltage area seems like a very good idea too. Many others as well. Some good discoveries here.

I'm kinda of the opinion that no Lenz will equal no power. And that Lenz and power go together. Beating Lens or eliminating it with (coils and rotor) will in my opinion mean very little output. Lens Seems to be a sign of removed energy. I think I would prefer to look for a way to overpower it cheap or for free like with waterwheel or wind turbine or ZPE powering a motor.

I like you're realistic outlook Rod (and others) and that you are happy to share the good and the bad or rather (the not so good). I will be definately going through this thread when I get a spinny thing going and try out some of the idea's in here, there are so many great idea's. I can't resist. I'm off to town to see what I can scrounge.

Regards all.

[qvision]

Thanks pmazz.

[pmazz850]

@ MonsieurM



@ All, what do people mean when they say 'pulse one side of the coil" ?

Thanks,

QV.

I believe they are refering to way it is wired to your circuit. You could pulse the coil with pos+ going to the start of the wind or you could pulse it with pos+ going to the end of your winding. Its all in how its wired to the drive circuit. Hope this helps.

[qvision]

@ MonsieurM

Thanks for the Tourmaline info

@ Marius, thanks for the new video

@ All, what do people mean when they say 'pulse one side of the coil" ?

Thanks,

QV.

[wattsup]

@toranarod

Thanks for posting your results above.

On the chart you mention the coil is 9.2H. Or is that mH?
The result of 71.6 volts is great and I am very inspired by that with a rolled laminate.

The input current of 1531mA indicates to me that the drive motor was under some good stress but managed to keep up the rotation.

Thanks for sharing that info.

Regarding the FWBR design I put up with diodes in series, I have never tried that or seen that used anywhere but when using a regular or Romero type FWBR, the gen coil gets stuck because the diodes cannot push the energy and keep it on the other side so the coil feels the compression. The idea of having two diodes in series is to push the energy across both diodes and make it impossible for the energy to push back because there is a space between both diodes that has no compression zone. lol

Please do not start a new build yet. There is too much new information coming in and may influence your next build accordingly.

@all

About the rotor diameter and number of magnets, the ultimate count would be regulated by the two main components.

1) The hall sensor activation angle and distance.
2) The rotor magnet field force and effective angle against the hall sensors and against the gen coils.

Well anyone can simply wing it and make any size wheel with magnets and they will ultimately find an area of activation, but it does not mean the design is optimized for such a use. So again this is another part of R&D with drawings trying different magnet/coil counts and having the hall sensor angle to see what diameter/magnet/coil count is the optimal.

@mariuscivic

You are so close to cascading coils. Please try this.

The two coils you use for shorting, put them together in parallel. Try the wheel. Then switch the wires and try again. Then put the orange capacitor in parallel across those two coils. Let us know what happens.

Check the power input to see if it reduces while the rpm is the same of higher.

It would have been best that the second coil of the two could be removable to try both sides of the coil and different positions around the wheel. I am sure that is where you will find some very interesting effects.

wattsup

[Farmhand]

Hi everyone!

I have something that should interes all of us

strange behavior of the coil part 3 - YouTube

That is interesting ! Very nice Demo. You covered a lot of good points, that little motor is Radical ! I was going to say could you try a smaller capacitor, but now I'm thinking, throw a saddle on that thing. Would loading the output coil even more, while the setup is accelerating from the the shorted one next to it slow it down much. Doesn't seem like it would. You could even load the other one or short it too.

Seems to me with the capacitor in parallel you are building the frequency into a resonant rise when it goes balistic. Because once it gets going it keeps going without the load.

That is impressive.

I think Slider showed us something like that too a while ago.

Just wondering, do pulse motors have a torque curve ?

Cheers

[toranarod]

Hi everyone!

I have something that should interes all of us

strange behavior of the coil part 3 - YouTube

This is why I installed a independent drive motor. The out runner.
same thing that i posted above earlier. the drag was increasing the speed by drawing more current. I couldn't see how all my test failed at replicating it.
so i moved on.

[MonsieurM]

I have worked long and hard on this project for a long time. years before Romero ever posted his Muller.
the contribution form every person on this forum has be priceless. I have taken the advice form so many. Tried so many ideas. Some with success and some not.
The suggestions are to look at core materials Like Metglas
Ferrous, Boron, and Silicon (Fe-B-Si) metal alloy. amorphous metal.
all these are very much worth a try. As you can see the MU metal is successful
I would like to get my hands on Metglass
the test today point out the ratio of inductance to resistance is very important.
did you notice my coil was 9mH, changed it from 5 to 9 and wound it around a Mu metal core.

there is one that corresponds to one of your requirement, and is cheap

Tourmaline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Formula: (Al,Fe,Li,Mg,Mn)3(Al,Cr, Fe,V)6
(BO3)3(Si,Al,B)6O18(OH,F)4

Tourmaline is a crystal boron silicate mineral compounded with elements such as aluminium, iron, magnesium, sodium, lithium, or potassium. Tourmaline is classified as a semi-precious stone and the gem comes in a wide variety of colors.

tourmaline powder | eBay

as an added bonus, it is piezo

[toranarod]

Take it the other way around, let's suppose you could make any core you desire, what type of properties would you like it to have...from there you search

I have worked long and hard on this project for a long time. years before Romero ever posted his Muller.
the contribution form every person on this forum has be priceless. I have taken the advice form so many. Tried so many ideas. Some with success and some not.
The suggestions are to look at core materials Like Metglas
Ferrous, Boron, and Silicon (Fe-B-Si) metal alloy. amorphous metal.
all these are very much worth a try. As you can see the MU metal is successful
I would like to get my hands on Metglass
the test today point out the ratio of inductance to resistance is very important.
did you notice my coil was 9mH, changed it from 5 to 9 and wound it around a Mu metal core.

[MonsieurM]

Hi everyone!

I have something that should interes all of us

strange behavior of the coil part 3 - YouTube

info on shorted coil (posted originally by Dave45 )

Self Assisted Oscillation in a Shorted Coil - Bucking Magnetic Field Oscillation - YouTube

[toranarod]

Your results show otherwise? when shorting, you get more speed than no coil config? Even your speed is more when you computer switch the coil. How is that? Is this config the Adams/Bedini Style rotor?

The variation at this speed is such a small percentage it not mensurable
The variation is negligible.
I will present more fact and figures very soon. Just give a chance to make the tables and write it up.

your speed is more when you computer switch the coil. How is that? you will understand when you see the wave form my scope.
this is about many parameters all being just right. I am very sure there is lots of room for much improvements to come.

[mariuscivic]

Hi everyone!

I have something that should interes all of us

strange behavior of the coil part 3 - YouTube

[MonsieurM]

No coil installed. rotor free spinning. only the drive motor. no coil or core
I will do some Photo's
I have some more data on magnets and speed and so on. Just writing that up now.

This is the Muller Motor results.

My problems are core materials. I was told by a transformer manufacture today to piss off. Because they would not share the core materiel with me. Its a secret
they said.

Take it the other way around, let's suppose you could make any core you desire, what type of properties would you like it to have...from there you search