Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[kajunkreations]

hey guys, just an update here. As you know I have been working on some magnetite cores and I havnt had any real luck. It seems magnetite by itself is just not permeable enough. I have made several different types and used different processes. By adding steel bb's to the mix made it much better but there was fast heat build up. I am still doing some research and I will continue to do so.

I will be ordering some other powders to try, things like iron, nickle and a few others. I am also think about ferrofluid any thoughts on that?

@ toranado, If you are going to cast your cores with polyester resin make sure you put 3X the hardener (mekp) to the mix. The filler powder (magnetite) greatly reduceses the mass of the resin, therefore the cure is increased.

[wings]

Interesting. I still don't get why the field would be different with a rectangular magnet? I have tried to find models out there to compare the two but no luck.

same question here

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/uploads/Greenbelt/2010-01-19_113301_SQ_and_ROUND.JPG

see what is done on standard motor ... or generator

powercroco 7N8P

[Shadesz]

@Shadez
I am currently making a slanted type core to do some test, What do you think of a pyramid shaped core?

Actually what I am thinking is that electric field like to attract to sharp areas, and they mostly like to converge, but what about magnetiic fields? If this is true then we mught be able to concentrate the magnetic field on the top point of the pyramid shaped core so that it affects the rotor minmaly.

What do you think, of course this needs to be tested.

Interesting idea. Magnetic field concentration points may be something to consider.

Personally I think it might have something to do about the unbalance of magnetic pull at any given instant. Perhaps this combined with point concentration?

It is hard to explain my 'unbalance' understanding. I have some data charts that will help. I have to go till my front yard so I can plant a lawn before it gets too cold, but when I am done I will post the chart and explanation.

Keep us posted on the new test!

[elias]

Slanted core

@Shadez
I am currently making a slanted type core to do some test, What do you think of a pyramid shaped core?

Actually what I am thinking is that electric field like to attract to sharp areas, and they mostly like to converge, but what about magnetiic fields? If this is true then we mught be able to concentrate the magnetic field on the top point of the pyramid shaped core so that it affects the rotor minmaly.

What do you think, of course this needs to be tested.

[Shadesz]

Oh, another thing to consider... The people who have seen a better effect from the square magnets vs circle magnets may not have considered....

I hope they aren't comparing say a 1" circle magnet to a 1" square magnet as this would not be a fair comparison in my opinion...

The math...
The area of a circle is PiR^2 so for a 1 inch circular magnet we get = .785398 square inches on the magnet face

The area of a square is l*w so for a 1 inch square magnet we get = 1 square inch on the magnet face

Thus a circular magnet face with the same measurements as a square magnet face will actually have 21.46 less magnet face area. (Think, the edges of the square that stick out past the circle)

This alone may account for the suspected benefits of cube over cylindrical magnets. I hope the people who ave observed this will help clarify their observations.

[Steve220]

Just thinking

Just a question. What is the advantage of using a permanent magnet over using an electromagnet?

I see permanent magnets used on all these rotors, but so far have not seen any electromagnets used on the rotors.

It seems that the stationary generator coil would not know or care if the rotor magnet was a permanent magnet or an electromagnet.

Has this been tried before and did not work, so permanent magnets are now used?
Just wondering.

[Shadesz]

YAY!

Don't give up on the Muller, lets just learn what we need ot get the "Adam's" effect on the Muller. If can achieve this, we can get twice the output per magnet since we can use both poles of each magnet.

I honestly think there are two things going on here, but need pictures (when you get it put back together) to be sure.

The first is like I mentioned, the path of the magnet in relation to the core.coil.

The second, it appears to me that you use significantly more iron in your Adams coil mount than your Muller Coil mount. I believe both the mass of the core (which may include some of your mounting hardware) helps us achieve this effect. Not only the mass, the design. A picture would help me explain it better...

[Shadesz]

Michael Faraday stated that electromotive force (EMF) produced around a closed path is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through any surface bounded by that path.

with a square magnets delta magnetic flux is higher

Electromagnetic induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-----------------------------

conical coil give the best use of coil (the magnetic flow is maximum close to the magnet less far from it along the coil)

Interesting. I still don't get why the field would be different with a rectangular magnet? I have tried to find models out there to compare the two but no luck.

[Shadesz]

That is good info thanks for sharing.
Coincidentally that was one of my thoughts too about a couple of weeks ago. Conical coil, like Tesla Coil, now how does he recommend placing the core towards the magnets, the base of it or the head of it? I thought about facing the base of the cone towards the magnets. Or maybe the sharp head of it be the answer?!

Square magnets do make sense too but with a square core I suppose. Also if we use square magnets we need to build a pyramid type core for our coils.
Pyramids are great channelers of energy and that is why it might work better. Pyramid means fire in the middle, because it seems that they accumulate energy in their middle.

Point the cone towards the magnets. It is best if the core is sticking out a little. In fact, I believe if the core is pointed that would be even better. (remember my pictures about the angled core face).

If you look at it, the Muller design uses a "cone" shaped coil with the point facing the rotor.

I also remember watching one of Thane's old videos where he said you can get the acceleration effect by pulling the coil back from the magnet. He used a core to do this... currently he claims you don't need a core and recommends an air core. In fact, he told the guys at OU that the core has nothing to do with it. I don't agree with him. I believe a properly designed core will allow us better control of this effect.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling. I think it would be best to point to cone at the rotor.

[Shadesz]

Rod and Elias,

You guys make me happy!

I hate being a student. I have so many things I want to try, but sometimes those 'Benjamin's' hold you back. $$

I still believe we can pull off an Adams effect on a Muller, but it will take a little more designing.

[toranarod]

Rod,

Do you mind posting a closeup picture of your generator coil mounting assembly on both the Muller and the Adams? I feel there is some important information there.

Good work on that coil! I hope you can find some good from it!

Thanks,
David

[MonsieurM]

@elias pm me the list off all the component that goes into building the Muller motor then we'll talk about it

[elias]

@ elias, when you look at the litz wire (i hope i wrote it correctly ) it only represents the inner core of say for example the Metatron's cube; so where have the outer circles gone....

hint: you'll find them in the muller set up, just look hard (neo )



search this figure, it will give you the right ratios to build the correct coil...It is also called the Nested Circles



compare above picture (fast moving ) if i slow it down and overlap frame by frame (use your imagination) ; you get the outer ring of this:

What do you suggest? Building a 6 magnet rotor, with proportions of the flower of life? and using 7 coils? or using 12 magnets and 13 coils? What about the size of the magnets? I don't quite get it. Can you elaborate on that?

[wings]

I couldn't help but post this here... It is from Romero. The bold is as I suspected. It makes sense to me.



I think the 'conical' coil (core) face on a Muller is akin to a flat coil (core) face on the Adams. I believe it has to do with the rotor magnets line/angle of approach and retreat.

I wonder why square magnets are better than round? They are using square on the new muller design too.

Michael Faraday stated that electromotive force (EMF) produced around a closed path is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through any surface bounded by that path.

with a square magnets delta magnetic flux is higher

Electromagnetic induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-----------------------------

conical coil give the best use of coil (the magnetic flow is maximum close to the magnet less far from it along the coil)

[elias]

Have you seen this video: Regenerative acceleration under load - YouTube
This is the circuit he has used:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?a...ch=53865;image

I think that that circuit behaves more like the SSG circuit and it draws more current when a load is applied so that can be dismissed.