Multifilar Generator Coil - Lenz delay Experiments

[bistander]

Some more data?

... I put 3 coils on my machine this morning and only saw the amp draw go up .7 amps
...

It'd be nice to see more data on your test. But let's say it was a 24V DC motor powering your generator. Then 0.7A at 24V is 16.8W. Or 5.6 watts per core. About same as Sky's result. No idea if RPM was close, or air gap. And assuming your coils had iron cores.

You can generate data to develop a curve, say using RPM as the independent variable. And then do a family of curves for say, number of cores, or gap distance. When you have things like this plotted out it becomes much easier to see trends and make informed design decisions.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

Hi all, well there was a difference.
Killiwatt meter says:
With just the rotor = 1.54 amps, 138 watts
With core added = 1.59 amps, 144 watts
With core and magnet neutralizing = 1.59 amps, 144 watts.

Also, it is a 1/3 HP motor and the core to rotor magnet gap is 1/8".
Not sure what to make of it at the moment, will start on winding the coil now.
peace love light

Hey Sky I am keeping this post. 1/3hp is good. My 1/3HP dryer motors
take 5.5amps running with a load of laundry in them. This is standard
1/3hp motor run load amps. The washers run 9.5amps and are induction
motors just like you have there and are called 1/2hp motors.

Do you see an inspection plate.

The opposing magnets puts into his rig are done with a CNC machine
are the holes are cut dead on plus all magnets are pressed in straight.

This is not as easy as you think to get the counterbalancing magnets
right on. I found if a slight angle on the opposition magnet (1 degree)
faces toward the other magnet as it approaches will slow it down.

Remember my slow moving wheel I built this winter? play with it by
changing it's angle and remember each magnet is different from the
next one slightly. In my mind I think to use a smaller dia magnet
that is LONG. This way you can SEE the angle and still get enough
flux.
Your amp draw shows the same thing as I found what too. Got work
to do on finding the right combinations of magnets and core sizes..

You are where I am.

[bistander]

Kool

Hi all, well there was a difference.
Killiwatt meter says:
With just the rotor = 1.54 amps, 138 watts
With core added = 1.59 amps, 144 watts
With core and magnet neutralizing = 1.59 amps, 144 watts.

Also, it is a 1/3 HP motor and the core to rotor magnet gap is 1/8".
Not sure what to make of it at the moment, will start on winding the coil now.
peace love light

Thanks Sky,

Only a 6 watt increase. Not a lot. The 138 watts is likely close to the no-load power of the drill press alone. That rotor is nicely finished and smooth so as not to have much aerodynamic drag at that RPM and you have no additional bearings or friction.

Good data points. The type of test you'd want to use to evaluate core material.

Talking about just a few percent difference in data points from a single set isn't really enough to draw conclusions. Turion can comment on the air gap. But it is good to record what it is for future reference.

Regards,

bi

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, well there was a difference.
Killiwatt meter says:
With just the rotor = 1.54 amps, 138 watts
With core added = 1.59 amps, 144 watts
With core and magnet neutralizing = 1.59 amps, 144 watts.

Also, it is a 1/3 HP motor and the core to rotor magnet gap is 1/8".
Not sure what to make of it at the moment, will start on winding the coil now.
peace love light

[Quantum_well]

A bit of fun.

Seems unbelievable, 10,000 watts @half a million rpm!

[Quantum_well]

A bit of fun.

Look.....krpm!

Screenshot_20190702-171454.png

[bistander]

Terminology

bi,
Thank you so much for the education on the difference between a coil and a core. I never would have understood the difference without your lucid and meaningful contribution. One again, nit picking is all you are able to contribute. But then, that's all I ever expect from you so I am not disappointed. As far as I remember from the generators I have built, all the coils I have made contained a core. ...
Dave

Hi Turion,

You used to differentiate between coils and cores.

...
All three of these coils would speed up under load.
10 strands of #23 at 80 feet in length AIR CORE
10 strands of #23 at 160 feet in length AIR CORE
3 strands of #23 800 feet in length IRON CORE

When I pulled the iron core out of the last one and ran it, it did NOT speed up under load anymore.
...
Dave

I guess you just forgot. Nit pick? What's wrong with using correct terminology?

Let's not distract this episode of testing and data sharing. Please run these tests on your machine.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

your man is achieving about

your man on the video could show it on top of the 93%

Who's man, Dave ain't got a man showing anything. The people
here are beginners.

You are afraid that this is going to go OU. Trembling in your boots
because it would show the level of blindness that still exists on the
simple statements being made here. Unless you can acknowledge
these simple ideas you can never be or have an open mind.

Quantum,
Our purpose here is to show TWO very specific things. First, that magnetic neutralization can cancel out the increased amp draw put on a motor when it turns a rotor with magnets on it and those magnets go past the iron in a generator coil core. To show that we must show the amp draw of a motor turning the rotor with NO coil (and core) in place, WITH a coil (and core) in place, and then finally with magnetic neutralization in place. Sky's choice of motor makes that more difficult for him, but he is only trying to prove this to himself.

The second thing we are trying to show is that a properly wound coil will speed up under load and NOT reduce the rpm of the motor turning the rotor or increase the amp draw of the motor turning the rotor.

[Quantum_well]

Aul.

Dave,
in that video your man is achieving about
93% efficiency.
The only time speed up under load would have any significance is if your man on the video could show it on top of the 93% he's already getting.
In other words, if you can't exceed your generator's
peak efficiency, you're gaining nothing.

[Quantum_well]

Clowns

There's a couple of clowns,a double act playing off against each other.
Sky if you want to do a meaningful test you have to use a torque sensor.(2k +dollars).
A drill press has an inefficient motor with a load vs power curve.

https://youtu.be/yzrx6W3cwaY

This video shows how to do a proper job.

[BroMikey]

Rest up Sky and here is a drill press video. The special cap in
them stopped it from running is a 36uf. If it was a start cap
only it would not have stopped while he was running it so it is
for running as well. A smaller value than 36uf would reduce the
HP capacity. Some motors have both start and run caps.

Don't know what you have there.

Example #1

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsFIKuwiEvM[/VIDEO]

Example #2

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMd9QkinXz4[/VIDEO]

Motor caps

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSN5iHRhH8Y[/VIDEO]

Start and run caps

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsuzfz5qcIE[/VIDEO]

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, was taking a small break from project today, my hands and arms were sore from working on it.
As you are saying bromikey and turion, kind of figured the motor might be creating the illusion that the neutralization method is not doing anything to relieve the motor, when it probably is reducing the shaft power needed by the motor.
Will test that tomorrow sometime, without anything by the rotor, just the rotor rotating by itself and will check amp input and watts input with killwatt meter.
peace love light

[bistander]

Core, not coil

Sky,
Look at your amp draw on the motor with NO coil in place at all. Then WITH a coil

Turion,

He has not put a coil on it. I think you mean "core", not "coil". The core is the iron post. The coil is the copper wire. The coil fits over the core to make the electromagnet. Right now Sky is working with just the core. That is my understanding and evident in the pictures and videos.

I do agree that a rotor only (without core or coil) test is needed as a baseline, at the same speed.

Also, can the actual air gap be measured? Between the core face and rotor magnet when aligned.

Regards,

bi

[alexelectric]

Hi all, hmm, not sure what to make of this, checked the input amperage with the killiwatt meter with the magnet attraction neutralization in place and without, it seemed to make no difference, according to the meter.
Each test started at around 2.55 amps input, then dropped to 1.54 amps for each at steady state.
Any thoughts appreciated on these observations.
peace love light

SkyWatcher how well it continues to advance and improve in each project
the neutralization of the magnetic attraction of turion has once again been demonstrated, and as an aid to the rotor spinning engine to reduce its consumption and power, so that it does not burn, as commented turion, that after putting several cores the drag was tremendous and it burned the engines.
if it is an advance to neutralize the attraction, to obtain better generators

[BroMikey]

Hi all, hmm, not sure what to make of this, checked the input amperage with the killiwatt meter with the magnet attraction neutralization in place and without, it seemed to make no difference, according to the meter.
Each test started at around 2.55 amps input, then dropped to 1.54 amps for each at steady state.
Any thoughts appreciated on these observations.
peace love light

How many horse motor on the drill press? How many amps is the drill
press rated to run at under full load? The reason I ask is that there can
be a place between idling and loaded where energy is used up by the
motor or wasted even if you don't use it for work.

In this case to use the drive motor input current as a measuring tool
you may need a motor that is not so large for such a tiny light disc.

As an example I have a motor connected to a wheel (rotor) and when
loaded down the amp draw drops and so does the RPM's.

Here is what you should do. Put the pulley system on the highest RPM
with the belt. Use a Variac to dial down to a slower speed of 3800rpm.
Any reduction in voltage will make the motor more sensitive to lighter
loads. Absolutely and positively, if the cores and magnets have any
cogging at all (tight gap) when you use the opposing magnets they
should be helping. The cogging must show one amp draw and a rotor
without cores shows another amp draw.

If all readings are the same the motor with it's gear train is much to
large to sense such a small amp draw change. You are running in the
65% margin where 65% of the motors full run load amp draw is
being consumed even if it is not used. This is done with motor caps.

A bigger run cap (on the side of the motor) keeps the motor partially
loaded at all time as a sort of "ON THE READY" to go under full load.

I change my cap down lower and this way you can lower the current
used at the idling state. For instance if my cap is 45uF I will change
it to 3uF and it will be sluggish and idle using much less current. If I use
a 10uF run cap (Oil filled cap) it will run normal at the same RPM as
it is engineered for but only use 20% of the full run load power during
this time.

Companies put huge caps so the motor is loaded at all times. If I
changed out my cap to a 55uf or 60uF the motor will take 80% of
the current for full load. What you want is a cap that is tailored to the
tiny rotor so you can read obvious changes on the meter.

Let's see ceiling fans have a run cap around 10uF, an old dishwasher
has a 22uF cap or pick some up for $5-$10, I see them all the time
in my work.

Drill press will be 1HP and you need 1/10th HP, caps are the best way
to lower amp draw "ON STATE" or idling loads.

Motor men here know all of this like me but say nothing, why? Because
they want you to fail, quit and just go away. They will never help anyone.