Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[Positron360]

Thank you for your reply. For a 3.3uF capacitor the voltage is typically in the range of 95V when measuring with a multimeter set on DC voltage mode. Capacitor gets to 250+V when the load is disconnected. I want to test this on a scope to see if I can confirm the wave pattern shown in the book. I should have access to one within the next two weeks. I can get noticeable sparks when tapping the connections on the battery. When using an electrolytic capacitor it gets very hot as one would expect from the rapid charging and discharging cycles, I have tried AC capacitors as well and they seem to work slightly better. Charging directly of the bridge is the fastest of all and is just slightly slower than charging with straight DC from a power supply. I will have to experiment with the trigger resistance, currently it is 2kOhm as suggested in the schematic.

The circuit works more or less exactly as I would expect if only positive electricity was involved. I have been unable to find any evidence of anything in addition to that in the form of the negative energy described. It is stated that the circuit makes primary use of negative energy, and I am trying to find out what I am doing wrong. Understanding the semiconductor connection statements might give a clue.

[blackchisel97]

What I meant to say was that the charging is not faster than can be expected from the little positive current that does flow to the battery in each pulse. It currently takes 100 hours to charge a 12V 7Ah battery. I purchased the coil from Renaissance Charge so I am pretty sure it is not a coil issue.

@Positron360, What is the voltage across capacitor just before being discharged into battery? 555 timer should allow to build 20-22V in capacitor before abruptly dumping its charge over battery. Timing has to be adjusted - pulsing frequency, as well as discharge duty cycle. This is similar to letting pitcher fill up with droplets, until certain level is reached and emptying quickly (not pouring) into larger storage container. Capacitor size (the one across the bridge rectifier) as well as frequency and duty cycle need to be experimented with. Adding diodes to 555 circuit will allow to control duty cycle from 50% down. You can also check performance of main part- oscillator, by temporarily disconnecting 555 circuit with SCR and trying to charge directly off the bridge. This way you can make sure that first part is tuned and works properly. You can leave capacitor connected. Experiment with trigger resistance and observe your charging rate.

Vtech

[Positron360]

I have not had any success yet

What I meant to say was that the charging is not faster than can be expected from the little positive current that does flow to the battery in each pulse. It currently takes 100 hours to charge a 12V 7Ah battery. I purchased the coil from Renaissance Charge so I am pretty sure it is not a coil issue.

[Positron360]

Semiconductor polarity question

I have attempted an exact replication of the radiant energy battery charger using a SCR as given in Figure 33 of the book Free Energy Generation Circuits & Schematics. I have not had any success yet, and there are a couple of questions I have with regards to the set-up that may be the source of trouble.

The factor troubling me the most is that of the polarity of semiconductors. On the bottom of page 91 the importance of semiconductors with reversed polarity compared to a conventional circuit is stressed as of great importance. On page 104 the section relating to Figure 24 states that the SCR is in inverted position. However, I fail to see how the connections are any different than if I wanted to provide a normal positive energy current spike to the battery. Another statement on page 90 mentions that "a difference potential is developed across the battery so that the semiconductors are in correct polarity when switching the capacitor discharge." These two statements seem to be contradictory. Is this referring to two different semiconductors, and if so, which ones? I will appreciate some insights on the subject.

Of less importance is the connections to the 555 timer. If connected like it shown the timer will operate at 14 Hz and a duty cycle of 50%. However, if two diodes are placed between pin 2 and 7 and pin 6 and 7, the timer changes to a duty cycle of 0.64% and a frequency of about 28 Hz which makes more sense if you want short pulses. The only purpose of the timer is to activate the thyristor, and you do not want to force it open longer than necessary. I therefore assume that the two diodes are missing from the diagram.

Thank you in advance.

[kcarring]

@blackchisel

many thanks for the quick detailed response

[blackchisel97]

@blackchisel

When you are desulphating a larger battery; say a truck batter, or RV battery, do you take the voltage right up to 15v or as close to, as possible, and cold boil the battery, before discharging / cycling? I have a battery that after 3 cycles has shown no progress, but I have only been taking it up to 14. I suppose if I left it 4 days or something it might go higher... but the situation (as it arose) has always been that, it is sitting at around 13.99 - 14.01 late in the evening and I've been scared to let it keep going all night... When I return to the battery in the morning it is back to 12.4. During load cycles it works alright, but it holds almost all of its load capacity at under 12V, and the majority of the power curve is around 11.5-11.6V, which is low. I've been running a 12V 20 watt lamp as a load, so about 1.5A or so, and this is a 27 series 80 A/H RV deep cycle. I am tempted to run it at 18 or 24V, instead of 14 (input) volts in order to "get it up" to a hard cold boil. I notice brown flakes in the cells, and I've been told you need to cycle to cold boil, such that those lead flakes return to the plates, keep doing it until the electrolyte "goes muddy" I'm told.

Thanks for any input!
Cheers

Hello kcarring, You can take deep cycle batt's much lower than regular LAB (I mean discharge), even 10.5V won't hurt. I was taking them down to 8.5 V standing. Don't be afraid to let it run overnight. I let batteries charge for couple days steady on my 6 filar (in case if they hesitate to climb). Sometimes it may take several cycles to lower battery impedance. I try to get them up to 14.5 -15V. Gentle tapping with rubber mallet on the case won't hurt either. Yes, electrolyte will turn muddy which is sign of plate cleaning but it will became clearer since lose impurities will settle on the bottom. I run my solid state from 15-17V with inverted trigger. On average battery my input current is about 3 -3.5A.

Thanks
V

[kcarring]

@blackchisel

When you are desulphating a larger battery; say a truck batter, or RV battery, do you take the voltage right up to 15v or as close to, as possible, and cold boil the battery, before discharging / cycling? I have a battery that after 3 cycles has shown no progress, but I have only been taking it up to 14. I suppose if I left it 4 days or something it might go higher... but the situation (as it arose) has always been that, it is sitting at around 13.99 - 14.01 late in the evening and I've been scared to let it keep going all night... When I return to the battery in the morning it is back to 12.4. During load cycles it works alright, but it holds almost all of its load capacity at under 12V, and the majority of the power curve is around 11.5-11.6V, which is low. I've been running a 12V 20 watt lamp as a load, so about 1.5A or so, and this is a 27 series 80 A/H RV deep cycle. I am tempted to run it at 18 or 24V, instead of 14 (input) volts in order to "get it up" to a hard cold boil. I notice brown flakes in the cells, and I've been told you need to cycle to cold boil, such that those lead flakes return to the plates, keep doing it until the electrolyte "goes muddy" I'm told.

Thanks for any input!
Cheers

[blackchisel97]

One of my energizers changed ownership recently and I just received an email about overall performance. (This is trifilar, one tranny device which picture has been posted by Virus, few posts back). I want it to share since it is unbiased test done by person who had no previous experience with this technology except, being familiar with the name of John Bedini -

I hooked unit up to my two year old (no usage) 12v/500cca battery that would not hold a charge for seven days which on my cen-tech battery tester showed 12.4v/ 9.64 m ohms/ 261.9cca/ 50% storage capacity, after three cycles of discharging to 11.5v & charging to 13.5v & after a couple of days resting now it shows 12.84v/ 6.34 m ohms/ 450.7cca/ 100% storage capacity, during charging the meters on the desulfator showed a constant 12.3v & 1.2a . I just started on my five year old high usage work truck battery that was not spinning my starter as fast as it was a couple months ago, it was showing 10.4 m ohms/ 246.9cca & 50% storage capacity. As best I can tell the charger/desulfator is doing what you built it to do.

I just built it but credit should go to John Bedini.

Thanks
Vtech

[kcarring]

Thanks guys! Lot's of variants to try. The one diagram looks kind of what i had by mistake (ina different manner though) and that is two strands, but behaving as one, really, so I would imagine it'd have a similar effect as a single wire in it's place of twice the gauge, however; one might also think it would fragment the magnetic field in a different way, too, possibly, and thus have some sort of effect or another.

About scoping a bedini:

Reading above I notice some information about dropping a scope on a Bedini circuit. Is there a bunch of discussion on this elsewhere? I guess that'd be the best question..

but ... The spike. If the charge battery is attached while scoping the collector and ground clip on the negative rail, or, essentially, the emitter...

1. Does the battery not quench the "spike" faster than the scope can see it? And thus produce sort of a square wave (esp @ low Hz)
2. Is it safe to do, or does one need to put a 10K resistor between hot probe and collector or something precautionary.
3. If your source for drive energy is a wallwart or SMPS plugged into mains, when you place the ground clip - are you isolated from mains ground, or does care need be taken to make sure you don't accidentally short to ground; like you might, for example, dropping probes across an AC circuit, across a shunt, measuring Vdrop to find the current?

If on the other hand the charge battery is not connected:
1. Usually my circuit just doesn't start or stay running, but my bump start would probably get it to.
2. In the couple of incidents I have done this, it occurred when I placed a 12V 20 watt light bulb in place of the charging battery to get some idea of current flow. (I connected to both output of the 2T circuit, after the diodes). What I found was the lamp did not light up, but oh man... those glass neons FIRED and I mean HARD. They were very bright and almost purple unlike the yellowish tinge they gave off running my SSG kit. Not surprising really the circuit was draw 1.5A, not 100 mA LOL.
3. Another thing I found was strange was that when the above happened, only one neon would fire at a time, never both. But, that said, I could tap the power on and off to the circuit, and perhaps one time one neon would fire, or, another time; the other would fire. It wasn't like it was always one particular neon, just never both, at the same time...path of least resistance?

Interesting stuff, indeed, but a bit unconventional to work with and measurements often very deceiving, possibly even meaningless. Current in, current out.. I don't believe really (the analog meter): given the pulsing. Pretyt much anything I've done can be used only in a qualitative manner for comparison to another measurement, this is more: that is less. Or as I see it anyway... I find it all rather hard to be conclusive with. Worst being the battery cycling tests, I did 42 and I see the point, but then again... I don't see the point. I came to the conclusion that I learned nothing really. Without an accurate count of watt hours in, and watt hours out... the whole test was essentially meaningless... but... it was interesting LOL Definitely, at times it doesn't seem to "add up". But al in all OU or not, I really don't care anymore.... it makes a pretty good charger and has uncanny characteristic of treating batteries nicer. Gd 'nuff for me

[blackchisel97]

@ kcarring Second circuit posted by SkyWatcher can be also modified (in case of trifilar coil) by removing diode from the collector and connecting third winding to the AC side of bridge rectifier. Bridge should be rated at 1000V. You can charge directly off the DC side. Also, trigger wire which goes to the negative rail can be connected to the positive - "inverted trigger", to improve charging. Base resistor needs to be adjusted according to transistor type. I use only MJL21194 for J.B circuit. I also use 12V5W bulb in series with base resistor. It helps with tuning. In my setup with trifilar #18 I have resistance adjusted and I can barely see bulb glowing in total darkness. You don't want transistor to get hot since heat means waste.

V

[SkyWatcher]

Hi kcarring, yes both of those multistrand coils have a single 24awg trigger wire.

As far as the length issue from your solar panel, I would use another oscillator up there to convert it to ac using a secondary, then a step down transformer in your house or wherever to power the radiant spike charger.
Though never tried it, it could work well though, i think.
In case you've never seen these other oscillator circuits, here they are.


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peace love light
tyson

[kcarring]

@Tyson

Thanks! I was pointed out the same thing by another fellow 49'er who's been helping me along. Duh. I usually work on these things at about 2AM when I have "me time" - which is far from ideal, so.. I snipped the bumpstart back to one side of the circuit, eliminating it being active on two transistors. I am also going to try changing the trigger configuration, try both ways, and see if it jumps right into self oscillation, eliminating the need for the bumpstart completely.

I find the circuit charges quite well, actually - beyond my expectations. Considering when I run it in what I call "charge mode", i.e. low Hz, it pulls about an amp and half, I run it at an input that measures 14 volts unloaded (it's actually a SMPS 13V 65 watt supply). I was rather surprised it even ran on an SMPS at all.

When I get my new gasifier up and running most likely it will run, most of the time on a battery charged up by the "wood-mains" so to speak; a battery charged off the charger / genset that's fueled by woodgas. So that could be anything really, because the source will be 60Hz/110VAC.

The transistors are 2N3055's, but I am very tempted to split one open, I have a reason to believe they are fakes. Imagine that, faking a cheap transistor. LOL But apparently, it got widespread (about the time I bought them CHEAP on ebay.com).

I'm going to leave this build as is, not "add on to it", per say other than maybe do some playing / modifying, but I'm about to build my next one with aluminum wire. I'm definitely "breaking all the rules here", but i figure whatever, I put a good long time, 1 yr. in on the SSG kit, learned a lot... time to play.

With the exception of a couple of projects, biggest one being a ceiling fan, I have no use for a rotor on my battery chargers. And it does add a fair bit of cost/time.

Next I will build a 10 strand, all strands 18 GA. aluminum wire with new, authentique 2N3055's so 9T I guess it'll be. Unless I opt to make the trigger smaller... which gets me to the next question...

If I make a 9T SSG, and I make my trigger the same gauge as the run coils, is it possible that a better impedence match will occur, and have it be more reliable as a self starter? This could come in real handy, given that I could then automate the run operations using PICAXE.

I am also eager to try the Tesla Oscillator configuration too. But, my guess is the 9T will draw enough to service large batteries in a relatively decent timeline... if it ends up drawing 3-6 amps in low HZ mode.

I am also curious about this:

Let's say you had a solar panel at quite a height and distance from your charging battery, and location "of utilization", so for example a solar panel way high up in a tree... and a battery + light in shaded "out of the sun" location, 100 ft. away.... if that were the case...

could you then opt to mount your SSG right up by the solar panel, set it to run low HZ, draw maximum, couple it to the solar cell with say an 80V 15,000 uF capacitor... then... run all your lines BEFORE rectifying to DC straight off the collectors... then rectify down at the charge battery... strange I know... the "extension" would have 3 wires, two being from the collectors coming down, and one being from the charge battery negative, back up to the positive rail.

My guess is no, because of that requirement of having a long wire, DC.
It would be akin to calling it a "Bedini Micro Inverter" so to speak. And then I think hmm. Is there a way to do this?

"Also, I noticed when using 24awg wire for higher voltage spikes, that it desphulates my 12v-7ah sla batteries much better, though it may be different with larger batteries. Because I'm using two transistors also, 7 strands, 3 per transistor, 1 trigger."

I have left over 6 MJL21194's that Intend for a project, and I have a nice big spool of 24AWG. So perhaps I'll put this configuration together. It's really quite fine by me to have many/several Bedini's as I have many friends off grid, where I can simultaneously experiment with desulphating various battery banks; have them assist me using the chragers, collect information from each situation. Is your trigger 24 as well?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, good to see the site is back up.
Hi kcarring, i looked at your diagram and you have shown a line connecting the two primary coils, if that is how you actually have it wired, then yes you need to separate the two coils for each coil to use one transistor.
Otherwise, the circuit looks fine.
Also, I noticed when using 24awg wire for higher voltage spikes, that it desphulates my 12v-7ah sla batteries much better, though it may be different with larger batteries.
Because I'm using two transistors also, 7 strands, 3 per transistor, 1 trigger.
What transistors have ya got there.
peace love light
tyson

Joule Thief Running Christmas Lights - YouTube
edit: here is a video i made showing my small joule thief running christmas lights on 1.5 watts full brightness, normally 2.4 watts from wall outlet and then the other larger oscillator coils for charging stuff, the red one is air-core and the other one has a ferrite core, they both use the two transistors shown with cap/resistor/diode off transistor base.
Testing this camera i just got.

[kcarring]

@Blackchisel

Thanks The plan was to use #18 on a winds, including trigger this time.
It has been brought to my attention that my circuit, as wired is acting a single (doublethreaded basically) run wire, operating two transistors. Which is what I fealt when I was making it up... Thing is I can't visualize what change would be made, to have it be a two coil, two transistor independant SS SSG. That is because I did not follow a diagram... I just built it as a "test" of whether I understood the SSG circuit, enough to evolve into a multicoil setup! Perhaps I don't LOL Not surprising really LOL. Hey.. it oscillates and charges... but, I would like to find a diagram somewhere that outlines, my mistake, or a description of how to attach the coil windings differently... would suffice too. I've scratched my head and tried to rethink it, looking at it... and it's not coming to me... the difference...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8444/scan0001gx.jpg

[blackchisel97]

@blackchisel
Thank-you very much for the input. My existing build is trifilar with 18 gauge on the runs, 26 on the trigger, and the momentary switch definitely did the trick for starting it. you say "In this configuration you'll need very low input potential to start oscillator. It will charge in cloudy day." - that may be key to getting the solid state to startup unattended without the need for any overly elaborate PICAXE diagnostics, (and consequential programmed "triggering") etc. Simple is good.

This is my setup here.

I had planned on using a helical bobbin style form, though.

Thanks for any input!

When I built my first trifilar I used #24 and later #18 on all three windings. This is a bit different than rotor based SSG.
As far as solar, I had one setup with DC/DC converter on the input holding steady output to the oscillator. However, this will also limit your desulfator according to preset V value on the converter, despite the sun condition.
I cannot comment on Al wire since I've never used such but your observations are valid. And yes, simple is good

Vtech