Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[kcarring]

@blackchisel

Yes, I did, but it was a while back so I probably shouldn't summarize. I'll do it again. I found the whole apparatus worked much better by placing a battery inline as a buffer, i.e; instead of a capacitor. Problem with that scenario was, though, I accidentally knocked it down to 9V. It was charging like a mofo though LOL plenty of voltage for the circuit. I actually had both a battery and the capacitor paralleled with the Bedini input. The battery was significantly smaller than the charge battery, a garden battery working against an RV battery. I think, that is how I will continue - in regards to desulphating - take two known goods, in parallel with the solar panel, and have the cap there too.. i might even do this "at the 24V level" Does anybody ever do it that? Sort of the opposite of what you see Rick doing? Use 24V input instead of twelve? In a way it would make sense... why ever risk having current at too low of a voltage trying to fight it's way in? I don't know... then shuttle that energy into the circuit, and into the "repair" battery. Then have some kind of low input cutoff, so that when the run bats get low, the bedini disconnects, and the solar just goes to work on the buffer bats.

as for the frequency... for the first test I was trying to take it as low as I could, step by step to see just how much current I could get it to push. I think with the new setup, I'll be a bit more modest and look more for an optimum level say around 800 Hz.

[blackchisel97]

Hi folks, not sure where to post this, so since i intend to use a joule or bedini radiant oscillator, thought this was a good place.
I just received an old lithium ion lap top battery pack from someone and I was wondering if anyone has had good luck charging these with a radiant oscillator, I'm not sure the condition of the battery yet, because i have to snap off the plastic cover yet, though i assume it is sulphated probably.
Thanks for any comment help.
The battery says, dell Li-ion 11.1 volt
type U4873
capacity 80WH
peace love light
tyson

Hi Tyson. I tried and it didn't work but internal condition was unknown (rather poor). I have heard that some batteries have protection and cannot be charged with pulse. Not sure if Li-ion or metal.

Vtech

[blackchisel97]

In experimenting with running an SSG (2T SS SSG) that has a 26 AWG Trigger and two 18 AWG runs, 2 transistors... I found that I could not get the circuit to output nearly the current I could... with a transformer based power source.

Let me go over the details a bit more:

Input: (2) 15 watt solar panels, total output (open circuit measured) 24V / 1.5A.

I was using a 60V 15,0000 uF capacitor for impedance matching parallel between the solar output and the circuit input rails.


Previously when running the circuit on a 12V source (DC adapter) I would observe (at very most) about 1.5A on the input side.

Then I took my scope, and took a 0.49 ohm resistor and placed it in series inline on the + side, and placed the probe of scope on one side of the resistor and it's ground clip on the other. The odd thing is, I didn't suspect this would work at all, I thought that you cannot use a scope "like a DMM", I was of the understanding the ground clip was just that; always to be at the ground of the circuit. And that it would actually take two probes to be able to measure across a resistor?! Anyway, what I saw was a wave something like this:



When I worked out the voltage drop at the peak of the wave, and calculated current using the resistor value, I was surprised it was quite high (by comparing it to an inline measurement), and then I thought, ok.. the meter is averaging it, and much of the period, there is actually no current being drawn, so obviously the average current drawn, would in fact be much lower.

Is this observation correct, and the reason my solar panel always underperforms versus the wall wart, is that there is not enough current available for this sawtooth to peak at the same height, i.e. at any instant it cannot draw many amps, and thus over time, it cannot average an amp, or so?

I was running my circuit at quite a low frequency, trying to see what I could get it to draw, and thus deliver to the battery (solar) and it never exceed about 30% of what I would see typically, powered from a DC wall source.

Thanks for helping me understand this, feel free to tear my idea apart LOL Just trying to learn.

Cheers All

Looking at the scope shot it seems like you're right. I have 40W panel and it can barely run my smaller prototypes. Did you check V across your panel powering SSG (under the load)? What is the freq?

Thanks
Vtech

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, not sure where to post this, so since i intend to use a joule or bedini radiant oscillator, thought this was a good place.
I just received an old lithium ion lap top battery pack from someone and I was wondering if anyone has had good luck charging these with a radiant oscillator, I'm not sure the condition of the battery yet, because i have to snap off the plastic cover yet, though i assume it is sulphated probably.
Thanks for any comment help.
The battery says, dell Li-ion 11.1 volt
type U4873
capacity 80WH
peace love light
tyson

[kcarring]

Running SSG Strictly on Solar

In experimenting with running an SSG (2T SS SSG) that has a 26 AWG Trigger and two 18 AWG runs, 2 transistors... I found that I could not get the circuit to output nearly the current I could... with a transformer based power source.

Let me go over the details a bit more:

Input: (2) 15 watt solar panels, total output (open circuit measured) 24V / 1.5A.

I was using a 60V 15,0000 uF capacitor for impedance matching parallel between the solar output and the circuit input rails.


Previously when running the circuit on a 12V source (DC adapter) I would observe (at very most) about 1.5A on the input side.

Then I took my scope, and took a 0.49 ohm resistor and placed it in series inline on the + side, and placed the probe of scope on one side of the resistor and it's ground clip on the other. The odd thing is, I didn't suspect this would work at all, I thought that you cannot use a scope "like a DMM", I was of the understanding the ground clip was just that; always to be at the ground of the circuit. And that it would actually take two probes to be able to measure across a resistor?! Anyway, what I saw was a wave something like this:



When I worked out the voltage drop at the peak of the wave, and calculated current using the resistor value, I was surprised it was quite high (by comparing it to an inline measurement), and then I thought, ok.. the meter is averaging it, and much of the period, there is actually no current being drawn, so obviously the average current drawn, would in fact be much lower.

Is this observation correct, and the reason my solar panel always underperforms versus the wall wart, is that there is not enough current available for this sawtooth to peak at the same height, i.e. at any instant it cannot draw many amps, and thus over time, it cannot average an amp, or so?

I was running my circuit at quite a low frequency, trying to see what I could get it to draw, and thus deliver to the battery (solar) and it never exceed about 30% of what I would see typically, powered from a DC wall source.

Thanks for helping me understand this, feel free to tear my idea apart LOL Just trying to learn.

Cheers All

[blackchisel97]

@blackchisel:

What are your views on operating frequencies with the SS SSG? I recently did a video, of me examining my 2T SS SSG, and while I do realize the 1. limitations of my experiement (no RMS meters, pulsing currents, etc.) and 2. My choice of where to measure voltages to derive "power" - may be incorrect ... that said ... I was looking for trends, not so much accuracy. To see, if, while running at a very low frequency if there was a lack or gain in efficiency. Reason being, I suspect this Bedini may behave like a a cheap MPPT does (because they have air cores instead of ferrites, like a Wellsee for example). In the case of the Wellsee MPPT, the air core get's saturated and heat is lost at the coil, instead of pulsed out in current. Anyhow, I may have (possibly) come closer to proving that to myself... it would seem so. It all began when I noticed the coil warming up, some (not to an extreme, though) while running at lower Hz.

What are your views on that?

First of all, I don't hook any meters to SSG other than A input monitor and scope during tuning. While varying base resistance you'll notice decrease/increase of oscillator frequency. Going too low will "cost too much" and cause heat looses. Going too high isn't beneficial either. Right frequency will depend on coil properties as well as battery condition. This is a resonant circuit, where battery impedance is changing (lowering) during radiant restoration process. Coil has impedance and capacitance. One needs to be low, one needs to be high. (this is solely my opinion based on observations and tests. It doesn't mean that I'm right )
My iron core SS were running in 1-2kHz range and air cored at 5-20kHz range, depending on coil.

Thanks
Vtech

[kcarring]

Air Cores Saturating?

@blackchisel:

What are your views on operating frequencies with the SS SSG? I recently did a video, of me examining my 2T SS SSG, and while I do realize the 1. limitations of my experiement (no RMS meters, pulsing currents, etc.) and 2. My choice of where to measure voltages to derive "power" - may be incorrect ... that said ... I was looking for trends, not so much accuracy. To see, if, while running at a very low frequency if there was a lack or gain in efficiency. Reason being, I suspect this Bedini may behave like a a cheap MPPT does (because they have air cores instead of ferrites, like a Wellsee for example). In the case of the Wellsee MPPT, the air core get's saturated and heat is lost at the coil, instead of pulsed out in current. Anyhow, I may have (possibly) come closer to proving that to myself... it would seem so. It all began when I noticed the coil warming up, some (not to an extreme, though) while running at lower Hz.

What are your views on that?

[blackchisel97]

@blackchisel97 Thank you very much for the information. I am using a BD243C as this was indicated on the schematic. When referring to transistor curve, what curve (variable vs. variable) are you referring to, and how do you the define the "best part" (highest gradient, highest value, etc.)? Sorry if this is elementary, but I want to make sure. If I had to guess I would assume you were referring to the DC current gain vs. collector current curve.

I have a trifilar, 450 turns 26 gauge coil. I am testing various battery responses, this will take a while, but I am currently operating in the 170mA range. I am currently using a 47uF capacitor. I tried using 1500uF, but the had SCR latching problems you warned about. I am considering replacing the SCR with a power MOSFET and adjusting the duty cycle appropriately so it closes more or less when the battery voltage has been reached, mimicking the action of a thyristor.

Maybe I shouldn't complicate things. In simple terms; there is a point where transistor operates efficiently. Not enough base current = flimsy switching. Too much current will not cause to switch any better but result in waste of energy - heat, so there is no point of reducing base resistance any further. It will be marginal gain vs heavier loses. There is an area in between where sharp switching can be achieved while everything remains cold - no waste of energy. In your setup you can use small 12V bulb in series with trigger. Bulb will change its impedance according to the current flow and provide visual tuning help.
Yes, you can use MOSFET or Darlington with couple paralleled bipolar transistors. Take a look at my replication of Bit's device from TS thread (my youtube channel). It is PICAXE driven but its switching transistor configuration can be run off other timing source. In this setup I'm pulsing two 22,000uF in series and dumping in parallel at 22V

Vtech

[Positron360]

@blackchisel97 Thank you very much for the information. I am using a BD243C as this was indicated on the schematic. When referring to transistor curve, what curve (variable vs. variable) are you referring to, and how do you the define the "best part" (highest gradient, highest value, etc.)? Sorry if this is elementary, but I want to make sure. If I had to guess I would assume you were referring to the DC current gain vs. collector current curve.

I have a trifiliar, 450 turns 26 gauge coil. I am testing various battery responses, this will take a while, but I am currently operating in the 170mA range. I am currently using a 47uF capacitor. I tried using 1500uF, but the had SCR latching problems you warned about. I am considering replacing the SCR with a power MOSFET and adjusting the duty cycle appropriately so it closes more or less when the battery volatage has been reached, mimicking the action of a thyristor.

[minoly]

Nice One correction; these are metallized‑polyester‑film caps, not electrolytic. (10uF)

Thanks
Vtech

Thanks Vtech... gave you a plug at 5:02 I need a full time person following me around to catch all the errors, it's a wonder I can even squeeze a single spike out of a coil LOL. Makes an argument for this stuff being more "common sense" and less "study book" oriented - of course common sense alone will not get you over the hill :-)
Patrick

[blackchisel97]

Turn your 3PM kit into a serious solid state monster charger:
John Bedini's Monopole converted to SS SSG with Patrick's mod - YouTube

Patrick

Nice One correction; these are metallized‑polyester‑film caps, not electrolytic. (10uF)

Thanks
Vtech

[minoly]

3PM to SS SSG conversion

Turn your 3PM kit into a serious solid state monster charger:
John Bedini's Monopole converted to SS SSG with Patrick's mod - YouTube

Patrick

[blackchisel97]

Thank you very much for your input. I was able to locate a local minimum with regards to amperage draw vs. trigger resistance at around 36mA and +/- 4.8kOhm and 4.5kHz. I used to draw 110mA with the 2kOhm trigger resistance. Capacitor was indeed faulty, thanks for the heads-up. My current plan of action is to adjust capacitance and 555 timing so that the voltage of the capacitor never exceeds 20-22V. What range of capacitor did you had in mind? 10uF? What did you use in your replication?

My sparks where not that small, but also not as big as in your video, perhaps due to the smaller capacitance.

I read an interesting section in Moray B. King's "Quest for Zero Point Energy" p. 34 about a Bedini method of pulsing new lead acid batteries with fast rise square waves above 20 volts and with a 50% duty cycle in the order of 300-400Hz. It was stressed that this worked only with batteries that have never been charged with DC, having to do with the dendritic structure found on the plates of new batteries. This information might be outdated (1994 compared to 2006 for the "Free Energy Generation" book) but it might be useful to keep the frequency range in mind. FEG Book mentions about 50Hz as the target frequency.

What I meant was minimum A draw @ best charging rate, not just lowest draw at which it will start to resonate. It will resonate, but you'll get alot of spikes with lower amplitude. There is no way to measure radiant other than battery response. There is one more factor - battery resonant frequency (usually in range between 1-6MHz). It doesn't mean that we have to build an oscillator running on such. Subharmonics can be just as effective.
I found the best way to tune it by determining base current (by adjusting trigger resistance) to switch transistor within its best part of a curve. For instance, my favorite MJL21194 works good at about 0.25A. Single circuit (bifilar) designed with the above semiconductor may draw 0.8 -1A. Of course, coil impedance - number of turns and wire dia. is important too.
With 36mA draw you'll not see any significant charging. It maybe just surface charge and it will disappoint or lead to the wrong conclusion.
My miniature SSG built on CD rotor draws 180mA when tuned and I have a perfect "h" wave, one pulse per magnet. Don't be shy to let some more current into transistor. This is a switch which needs to close and open sharp.
Small light bulb in series with trigger will help. What transistor do you use?
Look at their datasheet on the net.

Thanks
V

[Positron360]

Thank you very much for your input. I was able to locate a local minimum with regards to amperage draw vs. trigger resistance at around 36mA and +/- 4.8kOhm and 4.5kHz. I used to draw 110mA with the 2kOhm trigger resistance. Capacitor was indeed faulty, thanks for the heads-up. My current plan of action is to adjust capacitance and 555 timing so that the voltage of the capacitor never exceeds 20-22V. What range of capacitor did you had in mind? 10uF? What did you use in your replication?

My sparks where not that small, but also not as big as in your video, perhaps due to the smaller capacitance.

I read an interesting section in Moray B. King's "Quest for Zero Point Energy" p. 34 about a Bedini method of pulsing new lead acid batteries with fast rise square waves above 20 volts and with a 50% duty cycle in the order of 300-400Hz. It was stressed that this worked only with batteries that have never been charged with DC, having to do with the dendritic structure found on the plates of new batteries. This information might be outdated (1994 compared to 2006 for the "Free Energy Generation" book) but it might be useful to keep the frequency range in mind. FEG Book mentions about 50Hz as the target frequency.

[blackchisel97]

Thank you for your reply. For a 3.3uF capacitor the voltage is typically in the range of 95V when measuring with a multimeter set on DC voltage mode. Capacitor gets to 250+V when the load is disconnected. I want to test this on a scope to see if I can confirm the wave pattern shown in the book. I should have access to one within the next two weeks. I can get noticeable sparks when tapping the connections on the battery. When using an electrolytic capacitor it gets very hot as one would expect from the rapid charging and discharging cycles, I have tried AC capacitors as well and they seem to work slightly better. Charging directly of the bridge is the fastest of all and is just slightly slower than charging with straight DC from a power supply. I will have to experiment with the trigger resistance, currently it is 2kOhm as suggested in the schematic.

The circuit works more or less exactly as I would expect if only positive electricity was involved. I have been unable to find any evidence of anything in addition to that in the form of the negative energy described. It is stated that the circuit makes primary use of negative energy, and I am trying to find out what I am doing wrong. Understanding the semiconductor connection statements might give a clue.

I highlighted your comment above. Capacitor shouldn't get even warm and maybe damaged. Heat means wasting energy. If you have adjustable resistor (potentiometer rated at 2-5W) replace fixed 2kOhm in trigger branch. Monitor your input A draw and have V meter connected across battery, nothing else. Take a look at my early, crude replica of very same energizer (youtube) and look at spark when I took one clamp off the terminal. This is more than just "noticeable."
My coil was trifilar and not even #24 wire (possibly #26). Make sure you have main circuit up to the bridge running well before hooking 555 and SCR or power transistor. Try not to run this without the load - battery. Potential my rise very quickly in the capacitor and damage either cap or bridge. Bridge should be rated at 1000V anyhow. You could also try bigger capacitor but you may encounter problem with SCR latching and staying closed, due to the pulse being too strong.

Vtech