Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[blackchisel97]

Low value capacitors discharged at relatively high voltage will give you a very low c

Hi Seph & Praveen,

I agree with - "Low value capacitors discharged at relatively high voltage will give you a very low charging efficiency" - but at the same time they should charge/ discharge faster (sharper) I have couple different variations of J.B. charger and C value at the Greatz Bridge varies from 3uF - 10uF - 10 000uF. In the book it shows 3uF. I tried 80uF photo cap before. They're fast but I didn't notice any benefit.
You can change working condition of resonant circuit transistor by changing values of voltage divider (18k, 10k resistors). Different transistors may require adjustment of both resistors ( lower values). I also believe that h21 (beta, or amplification factor of transistor) may affect its working environment. Beta is usually indicated by last letter in the bipolar transistor symbol (after numeric part), where A is lowest and C highest. If I still remember well. I know that all Bedini circuits should show particular wave form in order to be what they were designed for.

Don't give up Praveen we'll get this right

V

[Sephiroth]

Low value capacitors discharged at relatively high voltage will give you a very low charging efficiency.

The closer the discharge voltage is to the charging voltage, the higher the charging efficiency. For this reason, high farad caps are recommended and to discharge them between 2 - 3 volts above the charging voltage.

[pvar06]

Donkt know where is the problem

Hi Vtech,

Further to the previous post, I wish to inform you that I have checked the circuit with the higher farad capacitor too. Replaced 4.7 mfd 450 volts with three 220 mfd 450 volts capacitor but could not see any major changes in current input / output.

If we will see the circuit for identifying the problem then I can say following [ofcourse with my limited knowledge]

1. The BD243C is functioning as the voltage and current is induced to the coil attached to bridge rectifire.

2. The 555 timer is functioning properly as the LED is glowing [connected between pin3 of 555 and pin1 of H11D1].

3. The opto coupler is functioning properly. This is by guess but soon will built a small circuit to check this.

4. The SCR and 2N3584 is working properly as we are getting voltage at the output. I dont know wheather I am correct on this or not. But I was thinking because the capacitor will be short only when the SCR and 2N3584 is functioning.

5. Rest of the parts in the circuit is resistor and Bridge rectifire. I dont think there should be any major issue.

So to my mind the problem is there with the Opto coupler, SCR or 2N3584. There are chances that the problem may be there with the coil too [but i am not considering it as i have three coil with me and none of them are delivering the result].

What are your views on the above.

Regards

Praveen

[pvar06]

Hi Vtech,

Thanks for your reply.

Further moved ahead and put the circuit on my power supply with 19.7 volts. Unfortunately there was no improvement in the input and output current as well as on the output voltage. In anticipation of some result kept the battery for charging on 19.7 volts but no significant improvement is observed on the battery.

So far i have made around 6-7 such circuits but only one had delivered the result to me. Unfortunately I had burned out some of the part while I was trying to hook it on power supply. This circuit was taking 1-1.2 amps at input and 0.2 amps with 220 volts at output. The vibration with neo magnet was observed at around 3-4 inch distance.

Some how I could preserve the BD243C of that successful circuit. But when i have installed this on the current circuit then the output voltage is getting dropped drastically.

To my mind it is all necessary to have good input current [between 1-2 amps] and output should be around 0.2-0.3 amps with 260-280 volts. I dont know how to increase the current draw by the circuit because I feel if we can increase the current draw at input and can maintain the output with 0.2-0.3 amps with over 250 volts then it can give good charging. The same i have read somewhere and it was going like this

'For getting a good charging the circuit should take around 2 Amps. For doing so you can increase the input voltage'

Also read at one of the post where one member has got around 0.62 Amps with 200 volts at output and his circuit was performing pretty well.

BUT DONT KNOW HOW TO INCREASE THE CURRENT DRAW.

I know Ash has a successful device with him and sent the pictures to him too. He only advised me to operate the circuit on around 24 volts. Dont know about Aaron.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

30mA with 210 volts

Hi Praveen,

I never tried BD transistor in this set up. It seems to me that 1A input is too much but also, 30mA current going to the battery will result in "puffy" charge. It has to be more current going out, as John Bedini said - "not too much, just enough". When you charge with HV with little current, nothing will stay in battery. You're charging with almost "pure volts".
Currently I have 12V @ 0.180A input and 224V @ 0.10A output. 51k resistor (or 100k pot) adjusts waveform of square pulses in 555. I can't see waveform and still don't know if this is optimal but I had several batteries charged and they held charge after couple of weeks.
I know of few people on this forum who could shed some light because they got it right. One of them is Ash from Panacea and also Aaron.
I got the refund for my scope and I'm looking for one on eBay.


Vtech

[pvar06]

Hi vtech,

After doing all the changes suggested by you the circuit is not charging the battery at all. What ever charge is coming is not hold for long. So far i did the following changes

1. Replaced 1uf 50 volt with two parallel 470nf 400 volts.
2. Replaced 51k with 100 k pot
3. Place one LED between pin3 of 555 and pin1 of H11D1.
4. Installed a amp meter at input side in series.

While testing, i found that the current at input side the current is 200-300mA and at output it is 30mA with 210 volts. Such set up is not charging the battery at all. In this setup tested the coil with neo magnet. I can feel the vibration when the magnet is around 1 inch away from the coil.

I had a old BD243C. This BD243C has always taken over 1 amps at input side. So intalled this on the circuit. But at output side the voltage dropped to 50-54 volts with 0.3 amps. Tried to adjust the 100k pot but there was not much improvement on the output voltage. In this setup again i have tested the coil with magnet. I could feel the vibration when the magnet was around 6-8 inch away from coil.

I agree with you that circuit looks fairly simple to construct but there is some tric to make it working.

At this stage i am getting clue less to make it work.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

Hi Praveen,

I have tried different transistors. I look into the alldatasheet and characteristics of 2N3584. I used MJE 13005 since it was available from my supplier (if I remember correctly - 20pc for $5). It has 300V emitter-collector voltage. Low beta, but since it works as a switching (not amplifying) transistor in Darlington, I decided to try it. My triac is BTA12-600B.
You can also try to connect a large (2200 - 10000uF) in parallel with your charging battery. See if it makes any difference - monitor ch.batt voltage at the same time.
If you take a small neodymium magnet and hoover close to the coil and core. You may feel emf bubble. Try to touch bobbin with your magnet. Don't leave magnet on the coil for a long time. Neo may magnetize your core. Certain core material (welding rods or magnetite cast in epoxy - better) is used for purpose; collapsing EMF needs to be sharp in order to induce nice hv spike. In case of iron core coils, oscillating frequencies should be around 1kHz. With air coil, frequencies will be higher (I believe around 25kHz). I didn't try air coil yet.

Those circuits are simple to build (compared to the circuits I have build 30 years ago, with hundreds of components, hand wound transformers, filters etc.) but there is a John Bedini genius behind it. My first SSG took me 45 min, including winding twisted coil, and circuit did work instantly. Just then, I almost saw John's smile - "you think you understand? think again"


V

[pvar06]

Hi Vtech,

Yes your suggestions are really helpful as with these suggestion we can atleat notice and observe the things even without Oscilloscop.

Yesterday night i had kept the bettery on the circuit but no improvement. The circuit was giving output voltage of around 180-210 volts. The LED was glowing constantly.

Today morning i had replaced H11D1 and 555 timer and kept the circuit on again on same battery. This time i have kept the LED blinkering at faster pace may be around 4-6 on/off cycle in one second. I have observed that there is some tic-tic sound in the coil. This tic-tic sound is directly corelated to the blinkering speed of LED.

So when the tic-tic sound frequency is higher then the frequency of output pluses must be higher, the sharp voltage spike must be there but at the same time with low current. Similarly with low tic-tic sound frequency we must be getting square wave with low frequency and with higher current. Hope my understanding is correct.

I just would like to know, do i need to replace the 2N3584 and 2N6509. Will it make any difference in the circuit....

So let us wait till today evening to check the battery.

With best regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

"grain of wheat bulb"

Hi Praveen, the light bulb isn't critical. I used miniature 12V 60mA bulb. During normal operation this bulb isn't lit, only when you disconnect charging battery during operation. Keep in mind that you're dealing with 200V+ pulses!
Basically bulb serves a purpose of a warning light. When you make an attempt to measure output current don't use digital meters! They're very sensitive and get easily destroyed by HV pulses. Use inexpensive analog panel meter. You can get them on eBay for $5- $7 with shipping. I got mine from seller in Taiwan. He has 300mA, 1, 2, 5A for the same price. I have one in series with input but I don't leave meter permanently on the output. Meters represent resistance/inductance and capacitance, like every circuit and can change parameters. I have however digital voltmeter periodically connected with charging battery to monitor the voltage.
It seems like your experiment is going the right way
I'm glad to hear that my suggestions are helpful.

Regards
Vtech

[pvar06]

Hi Vtech,

First of all I must admire your explanation skills. This is really a great help to me.

Other then above, I have changed the following

1. The 51k fixed resistor to 100k variable resistor.
2. 1 uf 50 v is replaced with 470nf 400 v [two in parallel].

Adjusted the 100K pot for constant blinking of the LED. I found that near 0 resistance the LED blink very fast and near 100k value it blinks very slow. So i have reduced the value from 100k. At one spot i found that the LED is blinking constant. This point is 21k. At this point I am getting around 200-220 volts at output.

Could not measure the current as I have destroyed my multimeter. Tomorrow i will check and will let you know.

The only changes left is replacing 2k resistor at base of BD243C with potentiometer and small light bulb. I request to kindly give me more details on the bulb.

Now I have kept the battery for overnight charging. Let us see what comes tomorrow morning.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

LED blinkering

I found the spot where LED seems to lit steady. Crank your pot away from the point where it blinks very slow, opposite direction. Keep watching both meters. I used 100k and later 20k pot because it was very narrow spot, hard to set with 100k resistance.



V

[pvar06]

Hi Vtech,

Thanks for the information.

Just working on this. Changed the connection of H11D1. Now pin4 is connected to base of 2N3584 and pin5 is to negative of charging battery.

Also as suggested placed one LED between pin3 of 555 and pin1 of H11D1. On power on the circuit the LED is blinkering.

Soon will change the 51k with 100k pot and 1 mfd 50 volt capacitor to 1 mfd 450 volt capacity.

Will keep you updated.

Thanks again for your kind help.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

H11d1/h11d2

Hi Praveen,

H11D1 or 2 has two elements inside; LED and transistor. This transistor is connected to the 2N3584 in Darlington configuration, which means both collectors connected together and emitter of H11D1 -which is leg 4 to the base of 2N. H11D2 has also leg 3 (not used) and leg 6, which is base of internal transistor (not used). The purpose of this optocoupler is to optically separate high voltage circuit from 555, which would be easily killed by HV spikes. Triggering square signal coming from the output of 555 (leg 3) causes internal LED to blink and trigger photosensitive internal transistor, paired with output transistor, causing to conduct. This potential arriving on the gate causes SCR to conduct and pulse (discharge capacitor) into the charging battery. Resistor and capacitor (1uF) in 555 circuit are responsible for oscillating frequency and potentiometer between 7 and 2&6 for square wave shape. If square is too long there will be higher current draw. If too short, too little current going to the charging battery. Current amount has to be just right, not too much, not too little. If you can, connect ammeter in series with input to monitor and voltmeter parallel with charging battery. Try to tune your 555 while keeping an eye on both. I found couple spots where voltage gain was faster but there was one particular spot, where current draw was just under 250mA and voltage started to rise v. quickly. Different batteries will show different results, however, I found that once was tuned it did work with different battery without the need of re-tuning. I have best results with a large 1000 CCA heavy duty led acid battery. Also found battery reaching higher V at night. One more thing; try putting large electrolytic cap (1000 -2200uF) between 8&4 and 1 of 555. I'm also experimenting with this circuit and have questions which could answer myself if I could see it on the scope. I'm in a process of charging back my credit card due to dishonest seller and can't afford to buy one before my claim is processed.
Play with resistance of 555 and you'll find it

P.S. If anyone finds errors in my logic, please feel free to jump in and correct me. It's been over 25 years since I work with electronics


Vtech

[pvar06]

Hi Vtech,

Thanks for quick reply.

The idea of using LED between leg1 of H11D1 and leg3 of 555 is really excellent to have a check point. I will implement this to my circuit too.

With regards to H11D1 connection currently i am running leg5 to base of 2N3584 and leg4 to negative of charging battery. This changes i have made recently after reading the details on TEEP forum (requesting to check the link - http://teep.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~178.asp).

However earlier my setup was running with leg4 of H11D1 to base of 2N3584 and leg5 to negative terminal of charging battery (like yours setup)

So at this stage i am confused. Any ways I will again connect the leg4 of H11D1 to base of 2N3584 and leg5 to negative terminal of charging battery.

By changing the coil and BD243C, currently I am getting around 20-30mA and 220-230 volts at output side, however the input is 12 volts and 0.3 Amps. With this data it looks your and mine circuit is more or less same then it may be the case with the switching only. So it may be trail and error only as i dont have the scope with me to check wave form.

Thanks again.

Regards

Praveen

[blackchisel97]

Hi Praveen, your coil is fine and it seems that oscillating part of your circuit works fine too. I have 1k potentiometer between trigger coil and base of BD243(I used different transistor). After bridge rectifier I have 3uF capacitor. I had 80uF electrolytic before but I found smaller capacitor charging and discharging better. I have two 470nF parallel (close to 1uF) in 555 circuit. capacitors have tolerance and often their capacitance is higher than marked.
I have LED between leg 3 of 555 (anode) and leg 1 of H11D2 cathode - I used this when started circuit as indicator that 555 is alive and working. Never removed since. LED will not affect performance. Basically, you have two LED's in series (one is inside H11D2). Leg 5 of H11D2 (or H11D1 in your setup) runs to negative terminal of charging battery/ anode of SCR and collector of 2N3584 ( I use different one). Leg 4 of H11D2 goes to the base. You have to play with resistance between 7 and 2&6 of 555 to find best spot. I have a pot instead of fixed resistor and it took me a while to find it. I was getting between 70 - 90V only. Right now I have 216V -220V at 70mA going to the charging battery while input draw is 240mA at 12V.
If you need a reference to semiconductors and their terminals configuration check http
//www.alldatasheet.com There are others but that's the one I use.
It looks like your 555 oscillator part is not triggering properly or your optocoupler isn't connected (or not working). 555 are fairly fragile too. LED will help you to determine if your 555 works.

It will work, don't give up
Check the book and look at this setup as three separate circuits.



Vtech